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Idaho_Clovisman

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Posts posted by Idaho_Clovisman

    Spirit Quests

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    Raven02 i agree with you 100%

    allot of people who play this game are well lets say immature in certain ways and argumentative.

    they have some dumb rules

    they have some dumb people

    naysayers and trolls here get to ya

     

    <rolls eyes>

     

    It'd be laughable if it weren't so damnably tragic.

     

    Very Lost you prove my point two fold first you constructed a 9 word post that adds not one thing to this thread and you took what i said out of context,reread the whole thread and try again... :blink::huh::blink:

    Spirit Quests

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    Raven02 i agree with you 100% and i also agree that allot of people who play this game are well lets say immature in certain ways and argumentative..to say the least they take any criticism as a personnel attack on Geo caching which it is NOT!..they have some dumb rules and they have some dumb people but i would be willing to bet that the greater percentage of geo cachers would not go to a cemetery to find a stupid cache..so please do not let the naysayers and trolls here get to ya..well done for speaking your piece.

    Muggle here

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    As both a cacher and a multiple dog owner,i agree that the mother over reacted the Mc donalds coffee syndrone so prevelent in our society.BUT as a dog owner you should teach your dog it is NOT exceptable to jump on any human being...that is being responsible...on leash or off you are responsible for your dogs actions teach them well in the beginning.

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    No Problem folks,i understand all the reasons and whys,and why nots,i chose as i said earlier to take my caching experience elsewhere..not that geo caching is bad ,it is just not a game i am interested in playing i may do no more than 10 caches a year but they are long hikes into remote places here in Idaho and the west where i can leave different types of items and no one thinks ill of it .,..

     

    Maybe i expected more than i should have from geo caching in truth i had no idea it was such a childrens game the wife and i went to like 25 caches in a very short time and of them all only 2 were nice at all the others were filled with junk..so anyway ya'll have fun and so will I...see ya on the trail..

    So whaddya think about how you get these co-ords?

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    The problem is when there is no documentation with the TB to tell people to keep it in the area, and someone actually does the geocacher thing and moves it 100 miles away perhaps? You don't see a problem with that? I want some of what you got.

    Not having a goal attached to the TB is the only "problem" I see here, and it wasn't mentioned in your original post and the only mention at all of the TB is in relation to a certain cache, I assume that's not really the problem you have with it. Probably 75% of the TBs that have a stated goal don't document that on the actual TB itself, so if that's actually your only beef about this particular cache/TB problem, you might be the one with the tainted lunch, not me.

     

    Personally, nobody I know would move a TB hundreds of miles without checking it's webpage first. If it's been a problem with this TB, then I'm sure the owner would be the first one to want to correct the problem.

     

    I have to agree when i am going to go find a cache i read all about it first,if there is a travel bug in it i know before hand what the goal is and if it is not something i am interested in or can do i leave it . If i can help it accomplish it;s goal i will do so ..do your homework before getting there and not knowing for sure..;)

    Hunters in the woods

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    I'm of the opinion that it's a good idea to wear blaze orange and be smart in the woods when you know you're around hunters or in an area where hunting is occuring.

     

    I'm an avid elk & deer hunter and have actually run into a few situations myself where I thought a hunter was going to fire on me when I was hunting (while wearing orange). Sometimes, there's not much you can do.

     

    p.s.:

     

    Currently seven states entirely prohibit hunting on Sunday for wild game; they are Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Jersey and Connecticut. All of these states have considered legislation to lift the bans in recent years. Repealing the Sunday hunting bans has been actively supported by the wildlife agencies in Maine and New Jersey.

     

    Four states allow limited Sunday hunting: Maryland allows hunting on two Sundays during deer season; South Carolina allows Sunday hunting on private land only; North Carolina allows Sunday hunting on some federal installations; in 2001 West Virginia enacted legislation that allows Sunday hunting on private land, but each county can hold a referendum to ban Sunday hunting; currently 14 counties allow it.

     

    Does anyone else recognize the geographical pattern here?

     

    And your point is?

    Other than they are part of the first 13 to sign the constitution?

     

    And yes, I grew up in CT & live in DE currently. And yes, I used to hunt deer both with a bow & a shotgun. I used to be part of the NRA & was on my HS NRA 22 caliber rifle team, in addt to be ex military during a war.

    And manyu of us here in lower DE will still fight to not allow hunting on sundays, we get enough stupid drunk out of staters 'tourists', let alone ones with guns looking for any property so they can hunt, without permission.

     

    I am used to hunters, have nothing against hunters when they dont threaten me & could care less, until they trepass onto my well posted property, sit in my treestand & threat to kill me because I tell them to get the hell off my property & the hell out of my stand. Which has happened, I've had more guns shoved in my face when I was out of the miltary then I ever did while I was in.

     

    I've had to go to court 3 times to get 3 different people banned from being around me or my property cause they were jerks from a very settled area, saw a field that is lightly posted, said 'what the hell, I'll ignore the signs & go hunt there because there are a lot of deer there & no hunters' so they drove their frickin trucks across the field soybean that was still in, & parked less than 50 ft from my stand on my property & they got all upset when someone told them to get out. :)

     

    I've had idiots sit across the field & use reg (not blackpowder) rifles to hunt, which are illegal here in DE then shoot at my house & near miss my gas tank, one of the reasons we had to spend a few thou to get our tank put underground. And yes, I still have their shells they left behind & a print of their tracks & plate number. They better hope I never get ahold of them, I dont like almost being blown up.

     

    Do I like hunters? Sure, if they are respectful & show a knowledge of knowing how to use their 'arms' & their brains for more than a place to sit on (if you get my meaning). But I dont like hunters who drink while in the stands, shoot their shotguns/bows without knowing their target or destroy crops just so they dont have to walk 50 ft.

    I currently hunt my deer with a camera as my family cant eat venison anymore, nor do I wish to kill a doe & the decent bucks hid in the back of my land to be safe. But I'll shoot any fricking hunter that comes onto my property now.

     

    If you think you may be in a hunting area while looking for caches, do the safe thing if you cant or wont leave wear blaze orange as its required in the majority of the states now. I know I'd rather go looking for caches as my during the week time is extremely limited & only sunday can I safely go looking for caches.

     

    Accidents happen & no matter what they can still happen, but then again you could be in the city & get run over by a car/truck/bus just as easily. Such is life nowadays.

     

    First i kinda take offence at the way you lump all hunters into a group of drunks,you said quote<>DE will still fight to not allow hunting on sundays, we get enough stupid drunk out of staters 'tourists', let alone ones with guns looking for any property so they can hunt, without permission.end quote<>

     

    maybe you should say that you have been unfortunate to have your share of bad hunters on your property where (i agree with you ) they do not belong ..BUT! i do not think all hunters are that way and if hunters in DE had more opurtunity to hunt on their weekends maybe they would spend less time drinking and more time hunting. sounds like DE needs better DWI laws not restriction of hunting on Sunday...the law was originaly set inplace to keep people home on the sabbath..which does not apply to me and so therefore i will hunt on Sunday but my state allows it ..BTW i never drink while hunting and i do not tresspass..

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    I get what you're saying, but we can't have one rule for the few very remote caches and one rule for all the rest. It would make management of the rule very difficult and it would be confusing to the casual player, leading to unacceptable items being placed in non-remote caches.

     

    I understand but again the casual player will NEVER be going to one of my wilderness caches,and nothing is confusing for those that take the time to read what it is they are getting into ..but i do understand your point and the rules have to babysit even those not capable of governing their own particapation in a game they choose to play..B)

     

    At the risk of stirring up a North Korea sized hornet's nest you do realize GC.com is just a listing site and has no control whatsoever over your cache other than to list or not to list right?

     

    I mean if you have some remote cache and you want to put items in it that aren't intended for kids, just put a note in your cache description to the effect that "This cache is not intended for children" and leave it at that.

     

    Fair warning is given.

     

    From that point who is to say you or a visitor put the fifth of Jack Daniels or pack of Marlboros or old copy of Hustler in the cache?

     

    I mean I am certainly not encouraging you to abuse the system, but at the same time if there is something you really feel the need to put into a cache there is nothing stopping you from doing so.

     

    I encourage you to be safe, be responsible and legal, but if you are all that and you still wish to have something in a cache that isn't always universally agreed upon as kosher, there is nothing stopping you from putting it in your or someone else's cache.

     

    One of the things I find really funny is reading the logs where someone finds a utility knife in a cache. The logs often read like this "L <stupid trade item> and noticed a highly dangerous and offensive swiss army knife type thing in the cache and so I dutifully removed it ASAP." Well you just know the person was tickled pink with the find and is having fun on the log page in a 'wink wink' manner.

     

    Go to a caching event and talk to people and I think you will find folks are far more open minded than what is represented on the forums.

     

    Very good post dave kudos to you ...i did exactly what you said i mentioned in my cache listing it was not intended for childrenand i listed what i put into it,they would not approve my cache..and you are correct that these items are left in caches and they are removed by (big brother) LOL i tried following the rules i placed my cache in a place that would NEVER be visited by a child without parent supervision and i was shot down so i archived it and went elsewhere..:D

     

    Confucius' Cat SHHHHHH no one caught it and it is near my favorite fishing hole ...Mum is the word.... B):DB):D

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    I get what you're saying, but we can't have one rule for the few very remote caches and one rule for all the rest. It would make management of the rule very difficult and it would be confusing to the casual player, leading to unacceptable items being placed in non-remote caches.

     

    I understand but again the casual player will NEVER be going to one of my wilderness caches,and nothing is confusing for those that take the time to read what it is they are getting into ..but i do understand your point and the rules have to babysit even those not capable of governing their own particapation in a game they choose to play..:rolleyes:

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    Clovisman, the rules are only stated for the protection of those who may find your cache and you, and to provide guidelines that property owners, parents caching with children, and others can rely on about what could be found. Just because your cache is placed 12 miles from town doesn't mean a family couldn't find it. Just because someone puts "ADULTS ONLY" on a cache listing doesn't mean only adults will discover it.

     

    An example..... you wish to place a tobacco based cache, and stuff it with cigarettes. If a juvenile finds the cache, even though it is 12 miles from town and clearly marked "ADULTS ONLY" on the page and on the outside of the cache, do you think for a moment that someone wouldn't want you to be charged for providing smokes to a child?

     

    There is nothing, unless you are there watching it, to keep some youngsters, with or without parents along, from going to your cache. With horses or ATVs, it wouldn't be hard to make it a pleasant day in the outdoors. Please continue to respect the cache guidelines. If you wish something special for one of the adult finders, mail it to them later.

     

    Thanks for the post Trucker i understand your reasoning but i am sorry it does NOT apply to where this cache is,ATV's can not get near it even horses would have a very very hard time (but possible),and no child will be anywhere near it without the hlp of a adult .It is in Wilderness there is no trail to it,and if a adult let their child take the car and drive into the wilderness and then if the child was lucky enough to get a good enough signal to find it then those parents are exactly what i am talking about ..and they need to take responsiblity for the kids it is not up to me i have placed it ina place that no child will ever get to...but it is all a moot point as i have archived all my caches and moved on to another caching site that better suits my way and where i live ..so it is safe to go back into the woods...:anibad:

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    Whats really bad is people that have more posts then caches found. They have time to sit around and complain but dont take the time to go out and do some caching.

     

    also is bad when people spend their time logging "litter with a log". and calling it a cache. i am more into quality than quanity...

    Hunters in the woods

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    if you are qiet and do not disturbe thegame ,just wear clothing that,sticks out well and be quiet making noise will get them mad at you while just strolling through the woods will most likely not even get you a second glance.But if you bang pots and pans together someone will be very upset you are ruining their outdoor oppurtunity..their is plenty of room for both as long as both sides show respect for the other.

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

    While I'm not going to be as rude as ADKcache....

     

    I like to think that sometimes my commentary has an edge. I really don't mean to be rude. I find it very tiring when people complain.

     

    That's why I have an edge. Grow up people!

    "Sit down and shut up", is no way to improve / resolve problems.

     

    Why is it you're allowed to complain about those who offer improvements? Should we not tire of you? If opinons bother you so, perhaps in-tar-net-for-ums ain't a place for you.

     

    I'm sorry that you're having trouble wrapping your mind around my point, which seems to have been edited out of my above quote.

     

    Complaints are one thing, numerous threads about the same complaints are the troubling issue for me. It seems to make more sense to search for a thread about substandard swag and add to that one instead of starting yet another complaint thread about the very same topic.

     

    You'll also find numerous threads asking questions about the following:

     

    Flashlights

    Backpacks

    Hiking Boots

    Cacher's Ages

    Lame Micros

    Lame Rules

    Cacher's Jobs (any caching firefighters or actuaries out there?)

    Caching Dogs

    Caching Vehicles

     

    It seems like people think they're going to ask something very thought provoking, when the truth is that's it's all been asked and done before, just take the time to do a search. Perhaps the answers will be found without stirring up a hornet's nest.

     

    HMMMMLike a bad dream you came back ok lets talk,what bugs me are people who complain about complaint threads...just look for a thread where someone is already complaining about soeone else complaining and add to it...and i am not trying to be rude but you add a big zero to this thread except for your drivel...

     

    Also the reason people start their own thread it so that their point is clear and not added tosomeone elses point further clouding the matter...now you should take your own advice and do a search and add your thoughts to another thread about complaints and please stay out of this one and did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason the same subject keeps popping up is that it is a valid complaint? looking up someone elses post does not answer mine..if people want to talk like adults about this subject let them in peace...thank you have a great day...;):o:D

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted · Edited by Idaho_Clovisman

    What he says is true and probably better out than me but the fact remains there is a problem and we need to resolve it so no side is left out remember it is for all..and i know it is not supposed to be "litter and a log" better things can and should be put in appropriate caches if you know what is in there and you do not think it is for your family don't goafter all it is our choice.

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted · Edited by Idaho_Clovisman

    Unnhh IC, I really resent that statement that us easterners have no concept of what the great outdoors is like. Your vote works just the same as mine, carries the exact same weight with the elected officials of our gov't as mine so dont say that us easterners have made life in the midwest/west living hell for you.

    And you are making a broad statement that does not apply to everyone who lives on the east coast, so I'd appreciate it if you keep that junk to yourself.

     

    Geocaching is not just a sport in the USA, its also a sport in Europe & places like Australia who have much more stringent rules about any weapon then we here in the USA do. Try getting in the face of a British Bobby some day, they can make their sticks sing, or the German Polizi (Police) they will take your head off if you look at them crossly. I know from experience with both groups.

     

    I understand your disappointment with the rules set up here, but there are reasons for those rules. You & I may not agree with them, or even like them but as we chose to be a part of this site we have to abide by them, if you dont like them so much do something then.. show your displeasure by leaving & see who else you can convince to leave also.

    I'm gonna guess not to many people will leave GC.com over this matter.

     

    As has been said, I dont know if you have seen it or not, or have chosen to ignore it. Put a note on your cache that the special buckle knife can be redeem by the FTF with a certificate number, or by some other means.

    I've seen it done on other caches with questionable & even non-questionable material because the COwner wanted to make sure the FTF, STF & ThTF got them.

     

    You dont like the rules in this sandbox, go make your own group (as others have) & make your own rules. But I sure as heck dont want my 11 yr old niece finding something in a box that could harm her, or any kid. And any parent can vouch that even watched kids can get in a hell of a lot of trouble, the hospital I used to work at can attest to that & I'm not even in a big city, just a small town.

     

    Note: Spelling edit, couldnt spell 'may' right for some reason. Its fixed now.

     

    You need to re read the post this is what i said <>people back east have no idea what it is like to hike at 7000 ft and have a resonable chance of meeting a grizzly bear,black bear moose etc and they have no idea of what to do except be scared.<> That is true you have no idea what it is to hike at 7000 feet )unless you have been here ) you will not see a grizzly bear back east unless it is in a zoo.please do not twist my words. you may come visit someplace out west where you might encounter one or more of these animals but you do not live here,and work and play in this enviroment everyday. Now on to the voting over 70% of the US poulation is east of the mississippi river nuff said! yes your votes over issues that only concern you effect us here in the west,simply a matter of numbers. and i am from the East North Carolina i have 100's of relatives there now i know of what i speak,i chose to move here in 1973.

     

    Good example of a bad blanket law the people in those countries gave up the fight to keep and bear arms they are now ruled nations and there rules should have no effect on us . I agree their laws are much more strict in regards to weapons that is a issue for them and should have no bearing on us in this country,a great example of how two different sets of rules could apply well to different areas. and i am doing something i am voicing my opinion..i am not tucking tail and leaving ,i am not taking the quitters way out.

     

    i understand the idea of the note and sending it to someone that is not the point of this thread is it? but i do understand it. also (and i am not judging you as a parent) but i never allowed my girls to EVER open something in the woods i myself had not first checked out it is called being responsible. and that is the point of this thread. yes kids can and do get into trouble but mostly it is when they are unsupervised...

     

    my parents allowed me to have and use a gun when i was 10 but i already knew the rules and how to be safe if i was not it would have been taken away,i also roamed the hills in NC hunting at that age.times have changed and we as parents have changed with them it is sad that our kids can not roam the woods and be safe that pains me very much ,but it is the way it is .as i have stated before i would NEVER put anything in a cache that could be found by any inocent person(child or otherwise) that would harm them..so we are back to sqaure 1.

     

    Cache heads said<>Groundspeak must take the gray areas into consideration as they "govern" their own little community.<>

    <> That is all i am asking for <>

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted · Edited by Idaho_Clovisman

    IC, perception is everything in this game.

     

    Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

     

    But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

     

    So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

     

    Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

     

    I never asked for idaho caches to have "Knives" there should be some way responsible people can act accordingly..we can make up senerio's forever well what if the sky fell and killed us all?? you know the point i am making you have to make the decision to be part of the solution or part of the problem...If you fear your lawmakers vote them out..they are supposed to be serving you ,you pay their salary..stand up and be counted or stand back and be led..it is all your choice.

    On that note i think all bases and points of view have been covered remember i can not choose for you you have to do that part..thanks ..

     

    Moderators Please close this thread thank you...

     

    I assume I'm also either with the President or with the terrorists too, eh? Lovely rhetoric, but ultimately meaningless. Life ain't all black and white, and there are many other people in the process of establishing reasonable geocaching guidelines--most of whom I'm not in the position to "vote out" (as if my one vote is going to scream out among the millions of other voters anyhow) because I don't necessarily live in the same state/district/whatever (folks in my area are generally supportive of geocaching and aside from NPS lands, only a few specific state parks/national forests have formal policies regarding the game). Yeah, I don't support the guidelines for my own benefit. I support them for myself AND everyone else's ability to play the game.

     

    You're fairly new to geocaching, so you might not be fully aware of the many years' worth of constant struggling between geocachers and skeptical land managers/legislators. Many of these have played out very publicly in these forums, but there have been many other more private battles that have had to be fought to retain the right to enjoy this game in our public lands. As with any sport/hobby, those who refuse to accept a few simple rules (IC, I'm not referring to you) make everyone who enjoys that sport/hobby look bad. As I already stated, the perception that people don't follow the rules is enough to accomplish that.

     

    At least the thread is getting better....<> but ultimately meaningless. Life ain't all black and white,<> and in that statement you show how wrong you are Life is about black and white there is no grey area..people have made it a grey area in todays society by not taking part by letting someone else carry the tourch etc.etc.you either stand for something or you don't,also as you say <>(as if my one vote is going to scream out among the millions of other voters anyhow)<> typical of todays voters why vote my vote won't matter..Hmmmm well to bad you do not see things important enough to put the effort forth to get results....Geo caching .com is not a gov't institution but you can get their attention by not using their service ,by not purchasing their retail goods,and by asking others to do the same...one vote one person can make a huge difference.(i am not saying my complaint is worthy of such meathods) but tell me why in simple english a set of rules to protect those that can not protect themselves is a good thing? that is modern mans problem today he has passed the buck so long he has no idea how to get anything done or is to lazy.people back east have no idea what it is like to hike at 7000 ft and have a resonable chance of meeting a grizzly bear,black bear moose etc and they have no idea of what to do except be scared..yet they vote to ban guns,and now we responsible members of society have to pay for their nievity.SP...

     

    I am sorry for the rant but people have to stand up and be counted(be responsible yes even Cachers) no matter what the cause..i just found it silly and funny that i could not put a simple item in a cache when the guy standing next to the cache is carrying a gun... :D peace

     

    There is no better or worse, only different. The difference has to be respected whether it's skin color, way of life, or ideas. The Chumash have a story about this. It begins with a worm who is eaten by a bird. The bird is eaten by a cat whose self-satisfaction is disrupted by a mean-looking dog. After devouring the cat, the dog is killed by a grizzly bear who congratulates himself for being the strongest of all. About that time comes a man who kills the bear and climbs a mountain to proclaim his ultimate superiority. He ran so hard up the mountain that he died at the top. Before long the worm crawled out of his body.

     

    Kote Kotah - Chumash

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted · Edited by Idaho_Clovisman

    IC, perception is everything in this game.

     

    Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

     

    But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

     

    So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

     

    Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

     

    I never asked for idaho caches to have "Knives" there should be some way responsible people can act accordingly..we can make up senerio's forever well what if the sky fell and killed us all?? you know the point i am making you have to make the decision to be part of the solution or part of the problem...If you fear your lawmakers vote them out..they are supposed to be serving you ,you pay their salary..stand up and be counted or stand back and be led..it is all your choice.

    On that note i think all bases and points of view have been covered remember i can not choose for you you have to do that part..thanks ..

     

    Moderators Please close this thread thank you...

    This a Bit of a Rant

    in General geocaching topics

    Posted

     

     

    we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..

     

    Hyaaaa, ummmm, NOPE. Would that it were so simple.

     

    As for BLM land, there is an official geocaching policy. (link somebody) Quite a few of my caches are on BLM land.

     

    Try camping in one spot on BLM land for longer than a month. The person or persons who come check your fire permit and tell ya to move on down the road after a month..... Those people (FS usually) could also be called land managers.

     

    Try giving a Forest Service Official an order next time you see one. You'll find out very quickly that you don't own the FS. You just pay the taxes that make the FS possible.

     

    Oh wow, I think this is the first time I've had to strongly disagree with you Snoogans. He's right on this one. The people own these lands. The people's money pays for them. Of course we also pay for their maintenance and caretakers as well as pay the people who set the rules according to our wishes. We pay to have those rules set to protect us as well as serve us. You can give a Forestry Service Official an order by using the proper channels. You do own the FS, you just don't own the individual right to have things your own way. If you have a strong feeling that a rule needs to change and can convince others, you can use the proper channels to "have it your way". I don't like a police officer handing me a ticket, but I do pay him to protect me even if it's from myself. :D

     

    Thank you one and all for very good posts about the subject the above 5 or six posts are more like it i am not a troll and i am not looking for a flamewar..thank you for posting like adults...Fox is correct we the people own the forest service the BLM the DNR and we are the ones who set the goals and services in those divisions by our voting if you have a forest service offical who is lets say creating his own agenda call your senator and congressman believe me things will change it is done all the time in Idaho.Outdoor sports and recreation is idaho.The west is a lot different place than Mossouri or Arkansas or texas.. as a example you can carry a loaded gun in this state in your vehicle now maybe that works here but it would not work in say New York or los angeles,the point is one set of rules for a multi continent game is not very good planning.

     

    The point is i do not want weapons in caches i do not want drugs or porn in caches,But there are times when something is not exactly what a rule says it is and this was one of them.I posted in my cache discription exactly what it was a Beltbuckle that also was a knife .a collectors novelty not something someone would cut rope with.Also no kids would be at this cache site without a adults supervision,also clearly stated in the cache discription...still it was not allowed..ok fine i pulled it and i am going to pull the cache as well..the rules you folks play by are way to strict,and the post is about cachers being responsible,if you just want to pass the buck and say follow the rules or else then you are not taking being responsible seriously,you are just leting someone else run your life for you so that you do not have to...that may be ok for you but it is not for me there are other options in the caching world and i will explore them because i am responsible for my actions and i take what i do seriously. You know what happens when you do nothing? Nothing! stand up be accountable for something no matter what it is get off your duff and be accountable.thanks and peace to all of you i will not bother you any more.

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