JoeCthulhu

Kablooey, I hope to be there. Will I see you?

mtn-man, I’m sorry. I’m hoping that my going public, hasn’t ruined my chances of every getting this event approved. Sometime it’s hard to remember that you all are volunteers, and that this often is a thankless task. I’m certain that you have only the best intentions in mind. I think we have both ascribed to one another motives improperly during this process, me especially. Based upon something you wrote, I’m guessing you’ve taken a look at my history at geocaching.com. If you have you see that I’ve organized 4 previous events that have all been fairly well received. As someone suggested, I hadn’t reviewed the guideline for a while prior to my initial submittal of the event cache. That was a failure on my part. When you responded to my initial e-mail, I did notice the bolded text. After reading several times, I’m still was unsure of the meaning. I e-mailed you. You responded. I still wasn’t certain, however, I resubmitted in accordance with what I thought at the time was a proper interpretation of the guidelines. After much further discussion, I still believe that the resubmitted event cache is in accordance with the guidelines. This event is a gathering of geocachers by geocaher to discuss geocaching. No where does the guideines state that the event has to be at one static location. This cache isn’t set up for the sole purpose of drawing cachers together for an organized hunt of caches. I know you may be having a difficult time believing this, based upon my initial submittal, but it is true. I wrote it up inappropriately the first time based upon my ignorance and because I thought it would entice cachers to attending. However, I expect many of the cachers who would be attending would have already logged all the caches along the route in question. As you are aware, the vast majority of virtual caches in DC are right on the street. If someone wants to stop and log a couple I don’t want to prevent them. Anyway, the guidelines do not say that you can’t hunt caches, only that it can’t be the sole purpose. I believe I’ve met that standard. I look forward to speaking to you. Expect me to be polite. Best Regards, Scott aka JoeCthulhu

I think your a little out of line making the assumption that because mtn-man doesn't live near DC he isn't familiar with the area or the caches. I've cached with mtn-man in 4 states, none of them within 500 miles of his home state of GA. I've found his logs already in caches I've found in like 8 states, and I've never logged a cache anywhere near his neck of the woods. I've done 2 of his caches, both of which are probably on your DC tour, btw. I remember a discussion in IRC he had with one of my locals about a cache he reviewed up here. Mtn-man was able to accurately describe the area, and the little local landmarks and shops in the area. Not agreeing with you is not the same as not working with you. It sounds like he's trying to be very fair and reasonable and most certainly trying to work with you by pointing you right back to this thread for ways to get your event approved. There were several suggestions made here how to rework your event to make it fit the current event guidelines. Those guidelines seem pretty clear that just hiking around to a bunch of caches is not the type of thing that will be listed here. Did you actually read them this year, or just assume nothing has changed since the last time you did this and check the box on the cache submission? There have been so many opinions expressed, I don't know which one is the right one. My best guess is too set it up at a restauant/bar for later in the day, and state that some of us will be going for an extended hike earlier in the day. If that's what I have to do, I wish he just asay so. If not I 'd wish he'd just tell me that too. I don't know the admin, but he doesn't know me, and he made assuptions about me first. I'm willing to take it back if he is. I meant that comment to be that he didn't know might not know geocachers in this region, not the actual geography. My bad for being unclear. I could also be wrong about this point as well.

I'll be delighted to reject your cache event too, if you'd like to take cheap shots at the way they do things in Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia. Keystone, I be happy for a 2nd opinion on the appropriateness of the event cache. I don't think I made a crack about how they do think in GA. I simply said I didn't care. I've had admin reject caches before, and after requesting an explanation, received a thoughtful reply. I've got no issues with them. I feel I've got a pretty good relationship with an admin or too. Rightly or wrongly, I'm picking up a level of arrogance from this particular admin I find appalling, and that is the main reason I brought the issue to the forums. I'm willing to try and work out the issue. It takes me a long time before I'll adopt a "take my ball and go home" philosophy may others have. IMO everything an admin related to geocaching.com is public, as is anything I do. I realize admins have feelings, but so do us other poor schlubs who's submittals you sit in judgement of. I think you've done a pretty good good patrolling the forums, as I've no other interaction with you. I'm rambling, I know...

RobAGD is a great guy. Hopeful he'd say the same about me.

The admin who rejected the cache has noticed this thread, and has posted on my resubmitted event to heed the advised given here. I'm still confused. I really believe I have complied with the guidelines. The purpose of the event isn't, and never was, to hunt caches, but to try and generate some exitement for geocaching in my neck of the woods. I worded it poorly the first time around. It's great that some areas have really active clubs, but northern Virginia doesn't. I'm the only guy organizing events down here. Hopefully, if I keep it up we will get there eventually. This event is a little different, but not that different. The uniqueness of the area makes this a unique expeiences, so much so that people that went last year asked me to set it up again. I think that is going a long way to starting something here. The fact that an admin from some other part of the country, arrogantly (IMO), won't work with me to help me understand his interpretation of the guidelines, so that I can get the word out, is just wrong. I feel like I'm being helds hostigage at this point. I'm willing to call the admin on my own nickel to discuss the matter. I know he's reading this so he is free to send me an e-mail with his number and best times to call on it. I'm really frustrated.

OK, I'm adding mtn-man to my list. He's an admin from GA who just rejected my cache event, so it's just to give him a piece of my mind. Or at least to tell him why my event is in the spirit of the rules, and to tell him I could care less about the way they do things in GA. Deep breath, take a deep breath.

In an attempt to be complient I have resubmitted the event with the following description. Odds on whether it'll be approved? --------------- We will be meeting at 9:00am at the posted coordinates, and walking around the National Mall and Tidal Basin. The walk will also conclude at the posted coordinates probably around 1pm-ish. Although, you may cut out at any time. The walk is approximate 8 miles with almost no elevation changes. Wear comfortable shoe and bring water. The wide sidewalks along the route make it perfect for a traveling geocaching seminar. If you’re a new geocacher looking for advise, an experienced geocacher who likes to retell of your adventures, or you just want to put some faces on some of the names you see in the logs, come on out and walk with us. The route we will be following is the same as we did at last year’s event, and the same as I walked on 10-12-2002, if you want to check out my logs from that day (they’re numbered). (visit link) There are a about 35 virtual geocaches, including a few new ones this year, along the route, and we may pause to catch our breath or drink some water at a few of them, so you may have an opportunity to log some of them. However, even if you are able to log all 35, or so, of them, the primary purpose of this event is camaraderie. GPS receivers in hand, we’re quite a sight strolling past the seat of our countries government, it’s monuments and museums. If you can’t make it right on time, no matter, send me an e-mail and I’ll send you my cell phone number and you can meet up with us enroute. I’d also be happy to answer any questions you may have. -------------------------

I'm a bit annoyed. Last year I organized an event cache, the first ever in DC, where we walked around the National Mall and Tidal Basin and hit all the virtual caches as a group. I'd already made this hike the year previous, and set it up to commemorate this walk. I had no idea if anyone would want to do it, and was surprised by the turnout. This year some of the folks who went last year asked me to set it up again. They want to do it even it there aren't any caches to find. I freed up a weekend and submitted a cache report, only to have it denied. I was confused, sent an email to the admin trying to figure out a way to hold the event and comply with the guidelines, and this is the response I received. ---------------------- I don't think you understand the idea behind the event cache. "Event caches are gatherings for geocachers by geocachers to discuss geocaching." You talk about events at restaurants and such. That is fine. The GGA has events at pavilions around GA except for our December meeting, where we meet at a restaurant. At these meetings, all anyone talks about is geocaching. They are not there to walk miles to find caches, they are at the event to sit and relax and chat. Some may go out afterward to find caches, but the primary purpose of the event should not be to find caches and chat as you are walking to the cache. That is basically what you are proposing. The guidelines are specific about this: "In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list." If you can find a place that will accept a gathering of 25 to 45 people for a meeting (where you can eat or whatever), then you can have your event cache listing. Stopping at a snack bar for 10 minutes is not an event cache. You need to organize the event. It takes time and it takes work. I know because I have organized about 25 + of them myself. The goal of the event cache is not to find caches. The goal of the event cache is to relax and meet other cachers and socialize or educate. Feel free to look at our GGA event caches for examples. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?u=GaGeoAssn Our next event is a challenge event. There will be dozens of caches there, but you only get one find. There are prizes and such. Our last one was a CITO event and then we had a meeting after that about organizational issues and such. We have snake demonstrations, first aid classes and first aid kit primers. We talk about taking bearings, hiding caches, creating cache containers, what to carry in your pack, leave no trace ethics and on and on. If you want to organize a walk to find caches then you will need to find another way to contact cachers. If you can find a location to have an event and then go out after your event to find caches then that would be fine. -------------------- Am I right to be annoyed, or am I missing the point? I took a look at some of the event that were posted (9/20-9/23) and all of them were get togethers at restaurants, birthday parties, and only of of which seemed to be even remotely related to geocaching. I guess if we meet at a park or restaurant it is assumed we'll be talking about geocaching, but that geocachers can't walk and talk at the same time.

No you can't claim the finds on geocaching.com. I helped playtime out last year at an event up in Maryland. I had a good time, they paid me $50 + a beer after the corporate guys went home. You might let them know you're an experienced geocacher before everything gets going.

How did I forget MeBuff8Fan.

Congrats. It's good to see another prolific NoVA cacher.

If my TB was in there, I'd consider it an honor.

Congrats.

I’ve been fairly active in the geocaching community in the VA/MD/DC area over the last, almost, two years. I’ve attended or organized an event in the area every couple of months, and met a lot of geocachers. But there are a lot of geocachers of whom I’ve read logs from and/or forum posts by who have eluded a face-to-face meeting. Here are some of the names of folks I’ve wanted to meet: Rambo the Cache Dog: hider of my first cache find, and hider of the cache closest to my home. She hasn’t been too active. I e-mailed her once about over a year ago, when she found a couple of my caches, and she informed me that Rambo had been recovering from lime disease. I hope all is well. Jorgy: and he hasn’t been too active. Jorgy organize some of the first geocaching events in Northern Virginia. The “B” Team: They’ve hidden some great caches, and great cache series, up in the Leesburg, VA area. Kosarin: Great caches names. Stayfloopy: When I started out, he was the 2nd most prolific geocacher in my extended region. Everyone I’ve met who has met him, also says he’s an interesting guy too. Interestingly enough, the first geocachers I ever met were CCCoopersAgency. I was wandering around without a GPS, looking for Rambo’s cache closest to my home, when I spotted them coming out of the woods. They were nice enough to talk to me for a while, and even let me borrow a GPS, so I could find the cache myself. They had about 1200 finds at this point, which was still more than anyone else in the game. Although, I didn’t know that until I looked them up later. Hopefully one day I’ll get up to an event in NJ, and meet some of those guys too.

If you want to keep this page from being cluttered, give NJ their own forum. Keep it as it is.

Congrats to The "B" Team for reaching the milestone of 500 caches finds. I've really enjoyed there hides in and around Leesburg, VA.

Is the listserv available to the public?

I'm coming into PHX over labor day week and hope to get out to cache quite a bit. I'm already planning a South Mountain hike, and did downtown Tempe last trip. Are there any other great places with high cache densities that would make for good hikes in and about the east valley?

Thank you for finally elaborating upon why the “It Reeks” event was cancelled. I’m sure you won’t be surprised when I tell you that I find this explanation to be insufficient. If I posted an event under my ID, I wouldn’t have relied upon anyone or blamed anyone else for the failure of the event. I would accept the responsibility and dealt with the harm to my reputation in the geocaching community. As far as anyone is concerned, you posted the event, so it is your responsibility to make sure it comes off. I didn’t mean criticize your event-planning mien in general. I only meant it to criticize it as far as geocaching goes. I don’t think you know the first thing about geocachers, and you haven’t shown any interest in finding out about them either. Your interest is obviously your several hundred-acre stretch of NoVA, and that’s fine. As far as it goes, Claude Moore Park is beautiful, and I’m sure a lot of that is because of your efforts. However, in my opinion, your latest attempt at an event is catering to your ego, and not to the betterment of the geocaching community. I remember our communications a little different than you do. All of the coordinates I selected were within 20 to 50 feet of established trails per your request. It’s hard to get much less off trail than that. You never asked me to select alternate coordinates, or even told me that you went and took a look at them for yourself. I’m guessing you didn’t even bother. I posted this publicly, in the hopes that it would either help you hold a better geocaching event, or cancel it altogether, but in any event significantly prior to the night before. If you are interested in holding a geocaching event that geocachers will want to attend, communicate with some of them about what they want from a geocaching event. For what they're worth, here are a few of my opinions: Geocachers prefer to find permanent rather than temporary caches. Geocachers prefer adventure to prizes Even moderately experienced Geocachers prefer challenging hides rather than caches in plan view of a trail. If you’re interested, I can provide you with a list of over 50 IDs of geocachers in NoVA from whom you could ask for advise. Good luck.

I'd be surprised if anyone actually attends this event, considering the mysterious last minute cancellation of the last one iplay organized. Check out: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...78-7f2729a2beec The stated reason for the cancellation of this event was, “unforeseen circumstances with staffing issues/complications.” This is an idiotic excuse. It only takes 1 person to organize and run a geocaching event. I know because I’ve done it several times. The last minute cancellation is particularly inexcusable considering some folks came from several states away to attend this event. After seeing that, I wished I’d been public with my criticisms prior to the misfired event. For those who don’t know, iplay is the Park Manager at Claude Moore Park. I can’t say she doesn’t know she the first thing about geocaching, because she does have 7 whole finds in the 3+ years she’s been a member, but I can confidently say she doesn’t know the first thing about geocachers. Also for those that don’t know, iplay, forced the relocation of the original “Claude’s Vestal Gap Cache” from an environmentally sensitive area once she became aware of it in her park. Obviously, I have no complaints about that reason. However I do have an issue regarding where it was relocated. It was moved to a spot literally 2 feet off trail. Not much of a challenge. Read the logs: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&log=y&decrypt= I’m surprised it’s still there. Just over a year ago I attempted to work with iplay to coordinate organizing an event in Claude Moore Park. I spent a day in the park picking up trash, and looking for good spots to hide caches. I emailed her all of the coordinates of the locations I’d selected pending her approval per her request. After all my work, she emailed me to tell me she didn’t want to do it on the date she’d previously selected, that maybe she’d think about it in a few months, and hoped there was no hard feelings. I’m sorry to say, I had a few hard feelings. When she posted the “It Reeks” event, I told a few geocaching buddies about my experiences with her, but publicly, I kept my opinions to myself. But after she cancelled the event the night before, and now wants people to trust her again, I feel it is my duty to inform the geocaching community what they are getting into if they have the misfortune to attempt to attend this event. Be warned. I look forward to someone picking up the ball here in Northern Virginia that Jorgy, Bigcall, and myself have carried, by organizing and hosting events, as it is possible that, as Bigcall has done, I may be soon leaving the area. After I’m not around I hope folks like iplay aren’t the face of geocaching in NoVA.

I got stung hunting for a cache over the weekend for the first time, and lo-and-behold a few of my cache buddies had similiar experiences. Is it just coincidence that so many of us had trouble with bees over the weekend, or is it just another sign of the Apocolypse?

Congrats.

Congrats.

Previous discussion: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...topic=33191&hl=