disenchanted

C'mon KBI... use some common sense. Now you are clearly picking nits.

I have submitted the cache we created, and am waiting for approval....In the meantime, here is the story from the cache page. What do all of you think? My girlfriend and I came up with a great idea for my daughter Alyssa's 8th birthday party. We shared it with Alyssa and she was enthusiastic, to say the least. We discussed it with my ex-wife, and she liked the idea as well, and agreed to help-even though she IS a muggle, LOL. We made treasure hunt birthday invitations, and nearly everyone came. We had hidden 5 temporary caches in Red Rock Canyon State Park just for this event. Each team had a list of 33 items to find (frog, purse, egg, red dress, trampoline, USA flag, broomstick, balloon, etc.). Some of those items actually existed in the caches-and some did not. We took two teams of three kids. The kids were given instructions on how to make sure to take care of the trails and warnings of where not to go. Once everyone arrived we started our treasure hunt. Our excursion began near the south end of the canyon. All caches could be seen from the trail although they were hidden under and inside trees. They were given coordinates that had been previously logged into a GPS. The GPS told them which direction to head and how far they had to go. Sometimes the GPS indicated that they had to head in a direction for a specific number of feet and when they looked up there was a rock wall blocking their path. They had to figure out the best direction to take to get to their destination and get around the rock wall. As they walked the GPS receiver continued to guide them. There were initially three caches to locate. Each cache was filled with lots of stuff! Key chains of a flag, silly putty in the shape of an egg, a red dress pin, jacks, radio, candy, jumping frogs, umbrella, expandable washcloths, and the list goes on. The kids had to decide what to take from the cache that was on their list, but they could only take three items. One cache was cabled to a tree and locked... but where is the key?... in a fourth cache about 100ft. away. They found the key cache, it had seven keys, but they could only take one each. They had to bushwhack back to the locked cache and see if the key fit. Team number one did not get the right key on the first try. They had to go back to the key cache and try again. This event was timed so they could not spend a lot of time trying to figure out what to take. After finding the third cache they returned back to our campsite to see if maybe they could round up a few items on their list that may be around camp, for example, they found a ball, a broom stick, a dove, something camouflaged (by way of big brother’s shoe and Kenzi’s belt). The teams were tied for items found at 15. Team number two was ahead of the game because they had managed their hunt in almost a full thirty minutes faster than team one. But there was one more thing that team one could do to try to push them over the top for the win! The last event was straight out of Fear Factor (which has given us some great ideas for next year!). Each child was blindfolded and led to a bucket that was “filled with something slimy and inside the slimy stuff are little things”. They had to stick their hand in the Jello and pull out as many tiny rubber lizards (which was on the list) as they could in ten seconds. The lizards were counted and TEAM TWO WON! As the lizard pulling was being done none of the other kids had any idea what they were being led to and after each child finished they could not say a word or react in any way to give a clue as to what was happening. It was a BLAST! Then, they ate the Jello with their hands straight out of the bucket (yes, we know it was a germ fest, we only let them go for a few seconds) and then they went straight to the water spicket and tried to de-slime themselves! After the Jello was sufficiently scraped off, we went on a nighttime cache hunt for the fifth cache. We went by flashlight through an amazing trail and high up above the park. The moon was full and it was a little cloudy, as you see in the Halloween movies, and yes, there was some howling by our group. Alyssa found the cache first, which is very fitting because this cache is the cache YOU are looking for, named “Alyssa’s Birthday Cache”. Team number two got to keep the items in the cache since they had won the game. Dinner was next with hamburgers and brats with chips and Kool-Aid. On to birthday cake as soon as the last bite was swallowed. By this time, the campfire was going strong and songs were being sung. A few ghost stories mixed in and it was time for Smores. We tried to get out of this one because of the obvious sugar issue, but to no avail. We were over-powered by the sweet dirty faces of eight-year-old girls who were obviously honing their skills of persuasion. It must be said that by this point they were sitting all warm and cozy by the fire, tired, full and happy so it was time to get out the air mattresses and call it a night in the RV. The air mattresses came out and the girls woke up! Last known sounds of the night were five little girls giggling. It is a beautiful sound. Morning came and breakfast was served (breakfast burritos). After a little clean up the girls went back out to hunt some real caches. There were five in the park and they went to find them. We also restocked Alyssa's Birthday Cache with swag, TB's, and a logbook and the girls went back up the trail to replace it exactly where it was the night before. As of today, there will be seven caches in the park with of the addition of Alyssa’s and an evil micro we hid. We all had so much fun! It was an experience that none of us will ever forget.

Click here to see the winner

Click on "Hide or Seek a Cache" Enter whatever it is you need to enter for your area to get a list of caches near you determine which cache it is click to display the cache page now click on "log your visit" select "Found it" Type some comments in the big box, and click "Submit Log Entry" at the bottom right. The cache owner will automatically be notified that you fould his cache. Hope this is what you were asking for.

Level 11: You take the 5th wheel trailer, towed by the lifted 4X4 mentioned in level 8, and hide 6 caches in a state park and invite all your kid's friends to a "Geocaching birthday party"

26.54 miles is the first unfound cache on my list. I plan to get that one this weekend, if time permits.

I'll be 38 on October 11th, Pooter2001 (My significant other) is 27, Kaitbryn (my oldest daughter) is 10. My youngest, who geocaches with us, but does not care to have an account or log her finds, will be 8 on October 12th.

So we are having a birthday party for my youngest daughter. We are having it at a nearby state park that is already very popular with area cachers (there are already 5 full size caches in this 310 acre canyon park, and one of those is ours)... So here is what we have planned. Before the kids arrive, we will go hide 5 ammo cans. Each can contains several items. The kids will be given a list of items to look for, like a scavenger hunt. The kids will be in teams of 3, each team has an adult helper. The navigation for these teams will be like a treasure map, with compass bearings and number of paces to a landmark, then a new compass bearing, etc. They can choose 2 items from each cache, and some of the items are plentiful while others are rare...so what they choose at each cache will decide the winning team. Whatever the teams take from the caches, they get to keep. The winning team will then be handed my GPS receiver, set to goto the final cache. This cache contains the "treasure" to be shared by the 3-kid team. With me so far? Ok, the REALLY cool part? The final is a permanent cache. After the party is over, I'll stock that cache with a logbook and swag, and will list it on GC.com as "Alyssa's Birthday Cache" with a story about our party and how it came to be. Of course, I'll remove all of the temporary caches, as well.

I just dropped this coin today. I like the idea that Jamguys used. He drilled a small hole in the coin and attached a personalized keyring. I think this will help to keep the coin from being taken out of circulation.

Pushmataha, I respectfuly submit the following: "Just because you have the right to do something, does not mean it is right to do it." Give the guy his find. Everyone else: I submit that we should make a rule change. No more cache owners deleting the find logs of others without a valid, specific reason, a list of which should be posted in the guidelines.

Nobody, nor the thread title ever said the cache was bogus. The requirement to have 99 finds to log the FIND that he actually FOUND...THAT is what is bogus, IMO.

As I see it, the truly ridiculous thing about this is that the cacher has now attempted to log the cache over forty times, with each log receiving the same fate - your delete key - and YOU have yet to get the message. He found the friggin' cache. His name is in the log book. As I asked before...how is that NOT a find? I agree. Even if a muggle found the cache, they would be FTF so long as they are the first signature in the logbook. If you deleted their find, then you have served as a fine ambassador to geocaching... Bill STILL says that was a pinheaded thing to do.

It's not going to happen. After all, according to the comments in this thread, I'm an obstinant, immature, boring, anal rententive, ridiculus, spiteful, power tripping, rigid, fanatical, pinhead, dick who doesn't care about starving people. Welcome to the club. You're in good company! *** Biting tongue so hard it bleeds a little ***

Then I would have to conclude that we agree. That is why I think that while the social pressure that is being applied here might or might not do any good, it is nonetheless a worthy goal. If someone found the cache, logged it in the book, then it is a find and the cache owner needs to let it stand... excepting of course spoilers or something else that riuns the cache. Exclusion is wrong. Telling people that they have basically no right to express their disagreement with this pinheaded ALR is ridiculous, IMO. Telling people if they don't like it, to avoid the cache in order to shut them up is also ridiculous as well. I was prompted by KBI to cite my evidence that the ALR in question serves no purpose other than exclusion. I would respond that the undeniable result is exclusion regardless of the excluder's intent, and that would serve as prima facie evidence of intent in any court. I would further would ask where is any evidence to the contrary?

Speaking of obfuscation and tangents: There are two very important points you keep avoiding: Why must you demand wholesale rule changes restricting everyone else's gameplay instead of exercising your power to simply avoid the caches you don't like? Why isn't that good enough for you? When people are enjoying -- voluntarily enjoying -- hiding and finding ALR caches, how does that hurt you? How does the mere existence of an easily avoidable ALR cache hurt anybody? You’ve avoided these questions throughout this entire debate. Though you’ve frequently claimed to have answered them, I can’t point to a single post where you’ve truly responded to either of these two crucial points. Others are right -- this has gotten way too repetitive. I'm a patient guy, CR, but I do have my limits. Time to draw the line. If you avoid either of these questions with your next post, then you will have effectively ended our debate by default. I'll assume that you truly have nothing to say in defense of your position; and will be happy to claim a win here and assume that, deep down subconsciously at least, you agree with me but just can't bring yourself to admit it here in the Forums. Perhaps he has gone to bed for the night..... You really are coming across as a jerk with a vendetta against CR. I am mortified by the exchange between you two on this thread. Is this a normal thing for you two?

I am an avid RVer. I was a full timer for awhile. I found out about geocaching here.

Your example serves a purpose of adding to the caching experience. It provides a challenge. The ALR of the cache in question serves no purpose other than to exclude. That is how it is different.

This guy would call the cache owner a pinhead.

The quote above is simply excellently stated. I should be able to attempt a cache, whether I have brown hair or blonde, 1 find or 10000 finds. I'm surprised the reviewers let (100+ find) caches go through. While I am ashamed and embarrassed by the exchange about semantics, etc higher up on this page, I have an opinion about this subject I'd like to insert before the thread gets closed. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY THAT A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE 100 CACHES IS WRONG. Someone here said you could go get 100 finds of micro spew easily. Well, not where I live and cache. The cache density here, frankly, isn't so good. Just ran a search, and the 100th cache from my home is 49.8 miles away. If my math is correct, that is 7790 square miles I gotta cover before I get 100 caches. I have been caching since 7/23 and I have 53 finds. I cache a lot. It will take me a long time to log 100 finds. Now, just to be clear.... My position would be the same on this issue whether I had 100 or 1000 finds. Geocaching is about a lot of things...Nature, exercise, challenge, personal goals, seeing neat places and things, but there is one thing it is NOT about. EXCLUSION. Whether that is based on level of experience, race, religion, sexual orientation, hair color, height, weight, etc, etc etc... I think that social pressure works wonders. I think that telling someone "If you don't like it, don't go find it" would be exactly like someone in the 1850 saying, "If you don't like slavery, then don't own them." Sorry, wrong. If the point of this thread is to garner and apply some social pressure to make a reasonable request to change the system, then that is a worthy goal. ALR's designed to add to the caching experience are fun and kinda cool. ALR's designed to EXCLUDE someone from finding it are wrong. PS. Don't anyone try to twist my words into making all caches ADA compliant. That's different.

I don't see it. Where are unpublished caches?

I couldn't have said it better myself. This cache owner, IMO, needs to seriously get over himself. What part of FIRST TO FIND are people having trouble understanding? This isn't FIRST PM TO FIND.

Wait a minute! I've been replying mostly tongue-in-check here, but these two statements are somewhat contradictory. If someone has signed the log as a result of finding the cache, why isn't that finder the legitmate FTF? As someone said earlier; "Why you would think otherwise boggles my mind." Since this thread is suggesting that logging a find on-line is insignificant to FTF bragging rights. Why does it matter how the first finder came up with the coordinates. Because anyone who is a "beta-tester" and did not get the coordinates from a published cache page can't be FTF. It's patently unfair and that has been agreed to here pretty much unanimously. How can you claim FTF in good conscience- when you are the only soul in the world who even knows the cache exists (other than the cache hider)? That would be like me letting my GF get FTF on one of my caches. Not gonna happen.

Previous Thread on teaching a geocaching class

I love it! I SO wish that was around here. BTW, how do you get back up? Brute force climbing the rope, or what?