3 Hawks

So much for the enlightened answers.............The Vista HCx does not even use an SD card ! It uses a MicroSD card.........totally different animal......AND......2GB max Gee thanks!! I was wondering why I had so much trouble forcing my 2GB SD card into the micro-SD slot.

I spoke to a saleman at pcnation and they said the price is not guaranteed since they do not even have the units in stock at this time. They don't know when they will receive the units and they have no idea what their final price point will be. In other words, the price they list means NOTHING at this time!! BTW: Illinois residents will have to pay sales tax. I called to make sure the price is legit. The saleman stated the same price I saw online. He said they are hoping around the beginning of February. I said thanks. Then later that day I ordered a 400T online through their website. I have a receipt with what I am paying. Once you have that the price is locked it. Zero for shipping zero for tax. Well, good luck with that. The saleman I spoke to specifically stated that the listed price is not a guarantee since they are in a pre-order/back-order status. You credit card will not be billed at this time and if the price changes, an e-mail would be sent to advise of any changes and to alllow you to give the change the thumbs up or down. If you lived in Illinois, you would see the listed price means nothing. Illinois residents are required to pay sales tax on top of the listed price. Does you "receipt" say anything about a price guarantee?? First of all I am not in IL. When I talked to the salesman he asked where I was located and assured I would not have to pay sales tax. Second. I don't know how you can order something and get a receipt and then have them change it on you before it ships. Why even put a price on the item then. That does not make sense. I have yet to ever in my lifetime have an order price change on me before the item shipped or after. I'm not even sure if its legal. I own my own ecommerce web store and I don't operate in this manner. If I did I probably would not have much business for very long. Third, They must have a slight idea of what price to charge based on MSRP. If not they are complete idiots. I think what he is telling you if Garmin decides to change their price before they are released he will have to in order to cover themselves. That is understandable. There is no guarantees when it comes to that. IF they do not, well the price should stand. Fourth. I could care a less. I don't have to have this thing right now. If they pull the email price change on me, I still have option to say yes or no and look elsewhere. At a price that low I will take my chance. I will let you know how it turns out. First. I'm glad you don't live in the state of Illinois. Entirely too many Bears fans. Second. Pcnation is not a distributor. Their distributor may change the price they charge pcnation at any time. Furthermore, you have not yet paid for anything since they have not even received the item to sell you. They don't know when they will get the items to sell. They don't know how many units they will receive. You did not exhange money for any good or service. You gave them you credit card number in order to be near the front of the line if and when they receive the item. Legality has nothing to do with anything since no money has yet exchanged and you have no written price guarantee. Your receipt is not a guarantee since it is only a receipt for future consideration. Bait and switch is not an issue since their site states they do not have the item in stock and it is in a pre-order/back-order status. Third. They are selling the 400T at $7.00 over the distributor price. I know a distributor and he simply shook his head when he saw their posted price. They are not charging for delivery. So, they are essentially selling the item at either no profit or at a loss. They may be hoping for piggy back purchases, like mapping software and micro SD cards. I can't comment on their intelligence or lack there of by posting a price so close to the distributor cost. Fourth. I'm glad you are in a position to take a chance on the price. If everything goes well, you will have made a great purchase. If things go bad, you have options. Pcnation is not a fly-by-night operation and you have consumer protection through your credit card company. They may be forced to increase their list price, but they may honor the price you pre-ordered at. Effectively, you have nothing to loose. Fifth. I did not invent what I was told over the phone by the pcnation salesman. Good luck and keep us posted.

I spoke to a saleman at pcnation and they said the price is not guaranteed since they do not even have the units in stock at this time. They don't know when they will receive the units and they have no idea what their final price point will be. In other words, the price they list means NOTHING at this time!! BTW: Illinois residents will have to pay sales tax. I called to make sure the price is legit. The saleman stated the same price I saw online. He said they are hoping around the beginning of February. I said thanks. Then later that day I ordered a 400T online through their website. I have a receipt with what I am paying. Once you have that the price is locked it. Zero for shipping zero for tax. Well, good luck with that. The saleman I spoke to specifically stated that the listed price is not a guarantee since they are in a pre-order/back-order status. You credit card will not be billed at this time and if the price changes, an e-mail would be sent to advise of any changes and to alllow you to give the change the thumbs up or down. If you lived in Illinois, you would see the listed price means nothing. Illinois residents are required to pay sales tax on top of the listed price. Does you "receipt" say anything about a price guarantee??

I spoke to a saleman at pcnation and they said the price is not guaranteed since they do not even have the units in stock at this time. They don't know when they will receive the units and they have no idea what their final price point will be. In other words, the price they list means NOTHING at this time!! BTW: Illinois residents will have to pay sales tax.

That may be so, but the Techie was not even able to view the icons for the manually entered waypoint on the map overview until he adjusted the settings.

Additionally, the Techie I spoke to said you can use any sized SD card you want, but the unit will only recognize and read up to 4GB. He was not 100% sure if the SDHC format would work. I was also told you can swap out pre-programmed cards between units. He said the authorization code is for the card only and the card is not restricted for use only in one unit. He also cautioned me to stress how important it is NOT to alter the content of the cards and said one of their most common issues with the pre-programmed cards is people accidentally save to the card and this overwrites the maps. Oops!! Edit: Added the word "work" 01/11/08 9:43pm CST

Hey apersson850, I just got off the phone with a Garmin Techie. He had a 400t in his hand and was very surprised to see that the cache icons did not appear on the map overlay. In fact, he was quite confused and said that this is not the way the unit was supposed to function. He fumbled around for about 15 minutes and came up with a work around. Here you go: 1) Go to "Set-up" 2) Select "Map" 3) Push the left "soft key" for options 4) Choose "Advanced" over the default option 5) Select "Zoom Level" from the menu 6) Select "User Waypoints" from the menu 7) The setting should already be set to the "Auto" default setting. In this setting, the Colorado is supposed to automatically adjust to show POI's and Waypoints within the map overlay's current view. For some reason, this does not appear to be working properly. To show the cache icons on your map, select "500 miles." This will show you the cache icons on the map unless you pan out to more than 500 miles. OK........Did this work? If so, are the cache type icons (traditional/multi/virtual/Earth/Event/Mystery)showing up or is just the closed chest( traditional) icon showing up? The Techie I was talking to said he only had a few traditional caches loaded up and they were ones he "entered manually." Are caches loaded via a GPX file showing up on the map? In the Geocaching Mode, if you select one of these caches from the map and hit "Go To," are you given the option to mark it as "Found?" Can you now search for "found caches" and are they listed separately? Thanks!! I think we all appreciate the effort you have made to get us up to speed on these units. Edited for spelling: 01/11/08 6:26pm CST

yeah, I thought I read somewhere that 4Gb was confirmed to work, but haven't heard anything about the maximum size allowable. I have a feeling the 400t, or any of the Colorado's, will handle what ever size SD card you throw in it. Garmin sells a 4Gb card, so they say it will accept a 4Gb SD card. Why would the Colorado care if you load in a 4Gb or 8Gb card? Then again, this is a truely uneducated theory based on gut instinct since I know Bubkus about tech or computer issues.

WOW!! That is a $150 less than MSRP and I think any and all taxes are included in the quoted price. The price is starting to make the Colorado look better. That is $39.00 less than the best price I've been able to find. They also have the 300 for $406.35 with FREE 3 day shipping through FedEx. They offer DHL overnight, but you have to pay for that and DHL has not been very reliable as of late. Edited for spelling: 01/12/08 3:12am CST

You can always wait..... You don't HAVE to buy everything the first day it is on the market. Just ask my wife; I'm anything but an impulsive shopper. Some might even call me a miser or even cheap. It takes me twice as long to grocery shop as my wife because I'm alwaly looking for the best deal. I'm just itching to finally go "paperless" and the Colorado seems to have sooooo much potential. Maybe I should just flip a Geocoin to decide...... I wonder if a macro can be written in GSAK that would input caches as POI's that would show up on the maps and still allow you to use the features in the geocaching mode??? Then again, this might cause all kinds of other problems and the 1000 POI limit would come into play.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist. I really want a Colorado and I almost ordered one a few days ago inspite of the issues discussed in these forums. As it currently stands, the Colorado is missing a few features that would make it a truely attractive purchase. I'm sure they will offer many upgrades in the form if Firmware, but thats like buying a brand new Lexus without tires or rims under the assurance that they MIGHT be sent from the manufacturer sometime soon. I just don't want to spend a bunch of money on something that has a lot of neat bells and whistles if it is not currently equiped and fully functional only to find out I will never get what I want or expect. I just don't know...........To spend and gamble or not to spend???

Total Active Caches: 10 miles: 344 20 miles: 917 50 miles: 2720 Ones I've Not Found: 10 miles: 0 20 miles: 15 50 miles: 1112

How in the heck is this an "improvement?" What is Garmin thinking? How is one supposed to route on the fly when you can't see the caches on an overview? This is NOT a user friendly feature!! I've done the "Find Closest" thing and you end up trekking back and forth across an area and wasting a lot of time and gas. It's not that the Colorado can't show an overview, it's the Colorado doesn't show an overview because they dropped the ball and they need to fix/change this yesterday!!! Does Garmin even care what some of their most loyal customers want, expect, and need in a GPSr?????

Yep!! Tore my left rotator cuff, torn ligament in same shoulder, and inflicted moderate (still extremely painful) damage to my left ulnar nerve (funny bone), and a three inch long gash to my palm while attempting to stop myself from slipping down a muddy bank above a stream. The bank gave way and I was free falling. Instinctively, I grabbed the trunk of a tree with my left hand but I still ended up in the water. To add insult to injury the water was only inches deep and I'd have been better off just hiking up the stream instead of bushwacking along the bank. I had to cache for two weeks with my shoulder immobilized with my arm in a sling. It was three months before the throbbing in the elbow stopped and I was not able to pick up my then 2 1/2 year old daughter for almost 6 months. On the bright side, caching while under the influence of prescription narcotics can be a real trip.

Let's just say I have a Vista HCx, in excelllent condition, and I'm thinking of getting a new Colorado. What is your price point?

That's far longer than any of my pants or caching shirts last. Additionally, real cachers don't wash their clothes. They burn them. Washing your caching gear just washes off the good luck. We're in the midst of a tick explosion in our neck of the woods and the wood ticks are thick. I've only seen one on me and it jumped ship for some reason. I'm not worried about lyme disease 'cause I take doxycycline hyclate daily for an eye condition. I'll be taking this stuff until they put me into the ground. Doxy just happens to be the prescribed treatment for early lyme diagnosis.

Brings back fond memories of my youth. Why does a wayward baseball always come to rest in the middle of a patch of stinging nettles? I ran into some poison ivy on Friday. I always wear long "trousers" and long sleeves while in the woods and I usually wear gloves. I'd never had a reaction to poison ivy before, but my index finger brushed up against one leaf of it and I had a blister by the morning. We also have wild parsnip that is real nasty. It is about 5 times worse than nettles.

Lets put this dead horse back in the ground. We can't dig him up again until we at least do that. The discussion/debate/arguement was fun! Happy caching. See 'ya on the trails!!!!

Please share a quote where somebody said that your temp caches weren't "quality" caches.... It's implied throughout this thread that event temps are just sitting around in the open for any blind squirrel to stumble across. I know most don't think that 'cause that is not what the discussion is about. I'm fairly sure that the off handed remarks were intended to provoke a desired response and to pander to a an intended audience. I don't know anyone in this Forum and I really don't care what anybody thinks of my views. I also understand that I will never change the opinions of anyone about the topic. We could argue/debate/discuss the issues of "regional" logging practices/cheating/ethics till the internet dies and we would never get anywhere. It's all been said before. This thread will eventually die and it will be reborn again with new players making the same points. Some of the same rock and mud slingers will jump in, things will turn uggly, and the string will be closed or die. It will go on and on and on and........

GREAT photo. Thanks for sharing. We don't have too many mountains in WI. Sure we have the remains of one of the oldest mountain ranges in North America in the northern part of the state, but they don't quite compare. The LaCrosse area, my old stomping ground, has the Mississippi River valley and some nice bluffs. I've gotta get out west sometime to try my hand at some of your more picturesque caches. See....there is always room for civility in any discussion. We are a community of cachers and we all share a common passion. Lets at least act respectful of each other.

Yep! Wild and crazy is in the official WI tour guide. That's what we are all about. Foot loose and fancy free! We are rebels to the core. Talk about integrity and ethics. Where is your sense of ethics in your rant. You've decided to make it personal. That is not the intended purpose of this Forum and it has no place in geocaching. Anyway, thanks for your input. It is always easier to debate against an extremely illogical and purely emotional arguement. I will afford you the benefit of the doubt in that I will assume you made these statements to point out how silly this whole thing has become.

Excellent because you don't seem to understand much of anything else. We are almost to the "I know you are, but what an I" point. Maybe it's time to put this thread to bed for a bit?

Give me a holler if you ever decide to hold this event and I would be happy to give you a few ideas on where to stick some of your temp hides! I wish you had been to our Superbowl Event. We could have just let you hike the 20 miles between all of the caches. Sure you would have frozen to death, but at least you would have acheived a better understanding of the practice before that tragic event. Have you ever logged a "bonus" find? Have you ever found a cache where coords to a bonus were provided?

How do you log a DNF for a temp cache? As a note, as a reference in another log, or by simply not logging it.

Yes, and at least 4 times. In fact, an officer drove up on me during a hunt yesterday. A month and a half ago, a HOT female officer drove up on me while I was searching for a cache near a park-n-ride. I must have a thing for secure women in uniform who carry guns? It was dark and I must have looked a little "odd." I explained the activity and she seemed curious. I told her that the cache was only abut 75 feet away. I pointed in the direction, she turned her squad to point that way as to illuminate the area. She got out and walked over to GZ. She looked for a few seconds and stated that she saw nothing but a rock. I said "that's it." I picked it up and showed her the cache and log. She seemed surprised and interested (not in me, but in caching). I've had a few officers watch from a distance, only to approach as I was about to leave. I explain what I'm doing and none seem to have any problem with it. There are a few officer cachers in our area, and I've actually cached with one.