ePeterso2
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Posts posted by ePeterso2
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The other alternative is to just email the reviewer. On a number of occasions, I've contacted my local reviewer directly without posting a log entry.
I can understand someone getting upset at having a Needs Archive logged on his/her cache, but if someone doesn't play by the rules and that individual's response to being told he or she isn't playing by the rules is to get angry and defensive, then that person probably shouldn't be playing this game.
My experiences with the local reviewers have been nothing but positive and constructive, even when I don't get my way.
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Hmmm ... I don't like the idea of anonymity. I think communities like this work better with more openness and transparency. If we're not willing to stand behind our comments, we shouldn't make them.
I haven't been in a situation like this, but if I was I'd submit a "Needs Archived" log entry with a reference to the specific portion of the cache reporting guidelines that it violates. The cache owner acknowledged reading those guidelines and promising to abide by them at the time he/she reported the cache. Plus, if the cache is archived as a result, it can always be reinstated by the reviewers once the violation has been resolved. No politics, no drama ... just a matter of meeting the agreed-upon guidelines.
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Isn't that what "Needs Archived" is for?
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Five DNFs and one Needs Maint, then this:
June 5, 2006 by FAKEFINDERS (64 found)I VOTE THAT IT IS GONE LOOKED FOR AN HR WITH TWO OTHERS. NO
CACHE FOUND I LISTED IT AS FOUND TO GET IT OFF MY LIST.
[view this log on a separate page]
Voting! That's a great idea!
Perhaps there should be a poll button on each description page where you can vote for whether or not you think that cache is really there. And if the voting crosses some threshold the cache gets automatically archived!
Or not.
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It's a bit subtle, but you need to realize that the "no agenda" rule applies to the cache page and not to the swag in the cache. Geocaching.com can only enforce the rule as to what it will allow to put on it's web site.
But what goes onto its web site can be influenced by what's in the cache. Here's the quote from the guidelines:
Caches that SolicitSolicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.
Was that material in the cache when it was placed? If so, I would suspect that the cache placer did have an agenda and the cache should probably be archived. If the material was placed by someone other than the hider, then maybe that material just needs to be removed. But that's just my newbie opinion ...
-eP
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And; hey, it was an idea, not saying it was the best, I would still like to see the idea in of being able to place and/or taking your WHOLE collection with one number. The discover portion of it really doesn't matter to me, just thinking out loud.
That actually makes a lot of sense ... being able to drop your entire collection into an event, then retrieve your entire collection all at once.
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I agree ... you can't find the offset without the cache page, so it would make more sense to be listed as a Mystery/Puzzle.
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I'm not a pilot, but this related cache piqued my interest ...
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I dunno ... the idea of discovering a "coin bag", then getting credit for discovering every trackable in that bag sounds like cheating or laziness or both, to me. I mean, if you really discovered the trackable item, then you should have to punch in its number. I would think that icons should require *some* level of effort to acquire ... if you can't be bothered to log a find for each one, then how can you say you really discovered it?
I mean, if you've got a coin collection book and you have the virtual bag number printed on the cover of the book, then I write down the bag number but never open the book, have I really "discovered" the coins in that book?
I realize that if you give me a preprinted sheet of your tracking numbers and I never open the book, then I haven't really discovered them either. But to claim credit for them, I at least have to punch each number in the list one by one ... that requires at least some exertion on my part to reap that reward. Being able to snag 50 new icons with just one tracking number seems ... wrong, somehow. (But if that's how you play the game, then more power to you.)
I can definitely see how it would be VERY convenient to have some kind of "display case" on your account, where you could place your trackables that you want to keep that separates them from those you actively trade.
I would also like to see separate PQs for nearby coins vs. TBs.
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Bah. Stupid post-delaying work-firewall ...
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I helped plan and run one as a team-building exercise for a group of folks at work. It was actually inspired by my love of geocaching and my attempts to recruit a co-worker into this silly hobby ... the co-worker did the overall planning of the event, and I helped contribute to it.
We don't have a website for it that's visible outside of the corporate firewall, but I'll summarize what we did below.
The goal was to get the team from the office to a nearby Dave & Buster's for an afternoon of food and fun to kick off a major multi-year project. We have held a number of events at D&B's in the past, so we didn't want to just do the same-old same-old thing again. Here's what we did:
First, we held a MANDATORY project kick-off meeting. We managed to get the 60 people or so that were part of the project team together in conference rooms and connected them via a conference call bridge. These 60 people are grouped in various sub-teams, and we worked with their managers to define teams in advance of 4-5 people each. The individuals involved had no prior knowledge of the team event nor of their team assignment, but they were grouped together with their immediate co-workers.
During the meeting, the team event and rules were announced. Each team would be given an initial clue sheet. The clue sheet would point them to five different locations within a few miles of the office. At each location, they would pick up a game piece. Those five game pieces would point to a final location, and at the final location they would find out the final destination (D&
. The first team to reach the final destination would win a special prize ($50 for each team member, I believe).The meeting began at 10am, and they were given until 11:30 to complete all the tasks and get to the final before we just declared an end to the event and told all remaining teams what the final was.
When the event coordinator gave the "Go!" signal, he asked everyone in every conference room to look underneath the table at which they were sitting. Taped beneath each seat at each table was the clue sheet to start the event.
The clue sheet was a sudoku puzzle - they had to solve the puzzle, then plug the digits from the completed puzzle into clues also on the sudoku sheet. Those digits gave them the addresses and street numbers of the five puzzle sites. We chose an easy pre-made puzzle, and we picked spaces on the puzzle for digits which forced the solvers to complete most of the puzzle. The smart teams used online sudoku solvers ... the weakest team spent an hour solving it by hand.
We assumed that each team would pile into a single minivan or SUV (hoping that at least someone on each team had an adequate car). Each of the five event locations were arranged in a 5-mile loop from the office. Because we wanted folks to go to D&B's at the end and we thought that people would end up going straight home after D&B's, we had to have the final location back at the office so that people would be able to split up and pick up their own cars.
For event locations, we used two shopping center parking lots, two public parks, and a bowling alley.
Event 1: Project Trivia. We wrote a short quiz about the project that this large team would be working on. Once your team turned in a completed and correct quiz, you were given the game piece for that station.
Event 2: Info Search. A nearby veterans park has a wall full of memorial plaques for various individuals that served in a number of different wars. Teams were asked to find 8 individuals, then find a particular number on the plaque of each of those individuals (what unit did they serve in, what day of the month were they born, etc.). Then they had to convert those 8 numbers into letters, then use the letters to spell a word. We used a simple code 1 -> A, 2 -> B, etc. and the letters spelled the name of the project. Teams that returned to the coordinator of that stage with the correct word were given their game piece.
Event 3: Bowling. The first team to arrive at the bowling alley would have to wait for the next team to arrive. Then each team would pick a bowler, and those two bowlers would bowl four frames head to head. Whoever won that head to head contest would get a game piece; the loser had to stay and bowl again, against the next team to arrive. No team would be allowed to lose more than three times in a row before being allowed to move on.
Event 4: Team Chess. A 6x6 matrix was laid out using duct tape in a parking lot. Each team picked two of its members to compete against the other team. As in bowling, the winning team got a game piece, the losing team had to play against the next team to arrive at the station. Each team member would start in a different 3x3 quadrant of the board, in a square of that player's choosing. The event coordinator placed a marker in each square in which a person was standing. The first player (chosen at random) would then move like a chess knight (two, then sideways one) to a new square, and a marker would be placed in the new square. Players could only move to squares without markers ... as more moves were made, less and less of the board was available for moves. Play alternated between players of each team (player 1 on team A, player 1 on team B, player 2 on team A, then player 2 on team
. Team members outside the game were allowed to coach the players in the game. When you had no legal moves remaining, you had to leave the board (and play continued). When both of your team members were out, your team lost.Event 5: Cache Hunt. We set up four different multicaches of five stages each in a park. Each team was assigned a different multi to find so that no two teams would be working on the same multi at the same time. Teams were given units with GPS receivers (they're part of the products we build) and told to go to the first stage. At each stage, they found the coordinates for the next stage and a number. When the numbers were put together, they formed the coordinates of the final location (which was a magazine rack at the park office). There were company envelopes in the rack, each of which contained the game piece.
The five game pieces were squares of paper, each of which had a number or letter on it. There were four numbers and one letter, and if you put them together, you would get the number of a pole back at the facility (our office is laid out in a coordinate system), which corresponded to a conference room.
In the conference room was one of the managers ... if you came to the room and asked him about the game, he'd tell you where the final location was. (The first team to arrive at the conference room got the solution right, stepped into the room, saw the guy working, and left without talking to him because they were afraid of interrupting him! DOH!)
It took a lot of work, developing each game, finding appropriate locations, making the game pieces, reserving conference rooms, finding site managers, etc. It took a few weeks of daily planning over lunch hours to develop the event and get the people and materials together. But it was really really really well received ... the folks involved all asked what we were going to do for them next year!
Don't know if that helps or not, but it worked for us.
Good luck ...
-eP
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Seems like a number of the caches with cameras in them have disappeared before the film could be developed. I know of at least three within 10 miles of me (including one I hid).
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A microwave oven full of DVD trade items would be an awesome container idea.
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I for one welcome our new guideline revisionist overlords.
Well done.
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It really frosts my nipples when folks drag up old dead threads and try to make them new again.
At least they're all here in this one thread where you can easily ignore them!
Unless you enjoy having your nipples frosted, of course.
-eP
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Premium members get emailed immediately when new caches are published. That lets the FTF hounds get out there before the mass mailing that comes out on Thursdays.
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... we were hoping that a new icon could be established to identify such caches - much like an earthcache, mystery, etc - because they are so different from a standard cache.
Different how? If you go to the coords, go up or down from that 2-D point, and find a container, then it's a traditional cache ... no? If you've got to dive, there's a "SCUBA gear required" attribute to flag it as such, along with a 5-star terrain rating. Those all seem sufficient to describe that type of situation.
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I don't know that I agree with logging a DNF in this case (and I've logged plenty of my share of DNFs). But here's how I play the game ...
If I get to the point where the GPS settles down and zeroes out and I can't find it within 30' of that spot, I'll log a DNF because I was actually looking for it. But if I *know* that I haven't gotten to the place where it makes sense to start looking, I'll log a note.
As a cache owner, I'd like to know the difference between visits by people who felt that they tried and couldn't find it vs. "partial" visits by people who know they didn't give themselves the opportunity to find it in the first place.
But in either case, existing log types seem sufficient.
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My only conclusion is the ambiguity is on purpose and built in. The only question that then remains is, "why?"
I think that is exactly why it's worded the way it is.
The rules for Scrabble can be printed on the back of the box, but the tournament rules are 23 pages long. Golf is an easy game ... swing the club, hit the ball, try to get it in the hole, but the USGA and R&A rulebook is huge, not to mention the companion book on decisions related to the rules.
Do we really want the cache listing guidelines to expand to be a comprehensive set of legally defensible statements?
I know I don't. I'd rather have a set of loose guidelines, inconsistently applied, than a comprehensive legal system. Maybe that's what TPTB want, too.
You may give me a beer!I'm all in favor of free beer, using all definitions of "free" (free speech, free if you call in the next 20 minutes, and Free Willy).
-eP
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Since we're into a dictionary argument, why not cite one?
Main Entry: 1mayPronunciation: 'mA
Function: verbal auxiliary
Inflected Form(s): past might /'mIt /; present singular & plural may
Etymology: Middle English (1st & 3d singular present indicative), from Old English mæg; akin to Old High German mag (1st & 3d singular present indicative) have power, am able (infinitive magan), and perhaps to Greek mEchos means, expedient
1 a archaic : have the ability to b : have permission to <you may go now> : be free to <a rug on which children may sprawl -- C. E. Silberman> -- used nearly interchangeably with can c -- used to indicate possibility or probability <you may be right> <things you may need> -- sometimes used interchangeably with can <one of those slipups that may happen from time to time -- Jessica Mitford> -- sometimes used where might would be expected <you may think from a little distance that the country was solid woods -- Robert Frost>
2 -- used in auxiliary function to express a wish or desire especially in prayer, imprecation, or benediction <long may he reign> <may the best man win>
3 -- used in auxiliary function expressing purpose or expectation <I laugh that I may not weep> or contingency <she'll do her duty come what may> or concession <he may be slow but he is thorough> or choice <the angler may catch them with a dip net, or he may cast a large, bare treble hook -- Nelson Bryant>
4 : SHALL, MUST -- used in law where the sense, purpose, or policy requires this interpretation
usage see CAN
So both interpretations of "may" (defs 1 and 4) are valid "standard English".
I'm guessing that the guidelines were written with definition 1c in mind, but since the guidelines are a quasi-legal document in this context, it's easy to see why the OP on this thread feels that definition 4 is implied.
-eP
PS: Source = M-W 11C
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I found one of these recently, and it had the following note in the description:
This, and all caches at these locations, have been pre-approved at the corporate level. Corporate Contact: Nick Simulia CB Corporate Headquarters Lebanon, TN 800-333-9566, option 3, ext. 2504If that's true, then it sounds like "adequate permission" has been given.
-eP
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There's always the possibility that they could inadvertently, accidentally, or maliciously mess up your cache by cutting off that branch on their side. I would look for another hiding place if I were in that situation.
-eP
PS: That's the best image I've seen on the Internet so far this week.
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I can understand disallowing executables from Billy-In-His-Basement "developers," but established and popular software titles should be allowed.
Such as Microsoft Office? Exploits using macros for those programs are some of the worst things to hit the net.
That sort of rule sounds like too much analysis required on the part of reviewers. And I can see it opening up an argument as to what constitutes an 'established and popular' software title that's been proven 'safe' (whatever that means).
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. The first team to reach the final destination would win a special prize ($50 for each team member, I believe).
New function - Report non-Compliant caches
in Website
Posted
Anonymous submissions of any type would open the door for abuse, I'd think. Besides, they'd never truly be anonymous from TPTB.
I'd think that if you're willing to speak up publicly, you should be willing to put your name on your words.