ejmct

I own Garmin units and I follow the stock but thus far I have been too chicken to actually buy any stock. I'll be interested to see what happens to cash flow when they start cutting all those $50 rebate checks.

I can tell you from experience that the cold weather will greatly reduce battery life. Also, the display on my GPS acts funny until it warms up. I don't know if this actually hurts the unit though.

My parents have lived in the same house for more than 30 years and when I went to visit them I was very surprised to see that Metroguide didn't recognize their street. Now this isn't a major highway or anything, but it is a key residential "feeder" road which, to my parents dismay, now gets a fair amount of traffic. As I said, my parents have lived there 30+ years and it was a street for some period of time before that. Surprisingly, I have noticed that sometimes it *will* find newer, less travelled roads. Go figure. I am not surprised that Metroguide struggles to keep up with businesses because lets face, they chang freqently. What is your favorite neighborhood bar today could be a WaffleHouse in six months and then a porno theater 2 years after that and then torn down completly to make a parking lot a year later. Businesses change but streets don't, so I am a bit disapponted that it doesn't find some pretty noteworthy streets, especially in light of the price of the software. In my experience, whatever software Hertz uses in their Neverlost system is much better than Metroguide.

I guess what I meant was this: I'm hiking 2000 miles from home in the beautiful Rocky Mountain Nation Park. Being a relatively inxperienced hiker, if say I was trying to get to camp before dark and my GPS wouldn't work because I was in only moderate tree cover, I would be somewhat irritated. Now if I was tring to get to camp before an impending serious storm and my GPS wasn't working in moderate tree cover (where other similarly priced GPS's might have worked) and my life were in danger because of it I would be much more that irritated. In my opinion there's no excuse why a GPS at this price level and with this many features shouldn't be able to find itself in moderate tree cover. I'm not willing to trade my Vista in because I do like it but I don't feel comfortable trusting my life to it.

Without being as scientific as the other folks here I can add my two cents. I had a Garmin II+ for years and a few months ago I upgraded to a Vista. There is no doubt in my mind that the reception on my Vista isn't nearly as good as with my old II+. In almost every other way the Vista is an upgrade however. Like everyone else, I lose the signal under tree cover while caching. I also lost the signal when driving on roads with steep mountain sides in Colorado. This was surprising and disappointing, but I'm not sure if every other other GPS would have lost the signal as well under those circumstances. I would sum my experiences up this way: The Vista is fine for most people who want to use the unit in their car, boat or caching. If I were doing serious hiking in an unknown place and my main source of navigation was my GPS, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable using the Vista because of the reception problems.

This weekend took it on my flights out west. As expected, the Vista's reception wasn't great but if I held it right next to the window it did work. What was very cool was that with Mapsource you could literally tell the name of the street below the plane. This is the kind of useless information that impresses the folks sitting next to you though!

Got Metroguide on ebay for $74 for a sealed copy with the manual. I have been using it for a few days while I'm on vacation and as expected its ok but not perfect. It can't find one of my hotels, for example. Today I took it to the top of Pike's Peak today and tipped the altimeter at 14,110 feet

Got Metroguide on ebay for $74 for a sealed copy with the manual. I have been using it for a few days while I'm on vacation and as expected its ok but not perfect. It can't find one of my hotels, for example. Today I took it to the top of Pike's Peak today and tipped the altimeter at 14,110 feet

Mine seems to work fine.

Whoa there, big fella. Don't start telling me about how expensive it is to digitize maps. A quick scan of Amazon.com reveals the following: Rand McNally StreetFinder & TripMaker Deluxe Buy new: $39.99 Microsoft Streets & Trips 2002 Buy new: $32.99 Street Atlas USA Handheld Edition by DeLorme Buy new: $39.99 Mapquest.com - Free Mapblast.com - Free You get the picture. All these companies & a lot more somehow managed to digitize maps and NOT charge $115. In fact, not only is it bad enough that Garmin, Magellan, et. al. are making a profit using satellites that our tax dollars paid for, but they are digitizing maps that are probably public domain anyway! So even if Garmin went through the effort to digitize their own maps, why would they do it? As shown above, its been done many times before by several companies. I'll tell you why: so they could make it a propriatary setup and charge $115 and probably make an 80% margin, that's why! They could easily have set up an agreement with Delorme or someone to use their maps and make them uploadable, sharing the profits. Any of these companies obviously have much more experience at making mapping software so the end result would be taking a superior and far cheaper EXISTING product and merely making it uploadable with Garmin's GPS's. "It is expensive but probably priced about right due to the fact that it only works with Garmin. " Nothing personal, but this is probably the most ridiculous statement in this thread. Of course its the only software that works with Garmin! Garmin made sure of that! Its not because Garmin's software is superior to everyone else's, it's because Garmin decided not to allow any other maps uploadable. These other (arguably better) programs are far cheaper. As stated, Garmin did NOT have to go about making its own software that didn't have appeal to more people than just select Garmin GPS owners. As far as people still pirating & selling software even if the price were lower, yeah some people would. But how about Blockbuster? I can buy 2 VCRs, run down to Blockbuster and rent movies and copy them rather than pay $40 to buy them. Maybe I can even make copies of copies and sell them to my friends. Anyone can do that, but few do. You know why? Because it only costs a couple bucks to rent a video. But if it cost $30 to rent a video from Blockbuster you can bet that there would be bunches of people copying videos illegally. If the price is low enough people simply won't bother skirting the laws. Garmin could have gone several ways in developing uploadable software. They realized what Microsoft realized years ago: there's more money in software than hardware.

Alan, I was not trying to justify purchasing an illegal copy. I was simply stating that even though I'm going to buy a legitimate used copy on eBay or wherever, Garmin isn't going to make any money on it. As far as I know there's nothing illegal about that! Are you one of those people that thinks used music CD stores (or buying the last Michael Jackson CD on eBay) should be illegal? If you do then you must work for the RIAA. And yes, Garmin could have made the software an open source deal where others could make competing products. Garmin could have tried to compete by making their software *better* than everyone else's (they should afterall, have a leg up on any competitors). This is why I hate Microsoft; whether their product is the greatest in the world or not doesn't matter. I resent having no choice when I buy a computer but to use (and pay for!)Windows. Sure now there's Linux but that's far from being a mass market product yet and I still can't get my new PC from Dell or Gateway without Windows loaded on it. If you don't think that someone mildly interested in getting involved in Geocaching or GPS' in general doesn't think $350 for a Vista is expensive you're wrong. But then when they find out the software is another $115 I think that $450 probably seals the deal as far as someone on the fence not purchasing it at all. And that means Garmin and indirectly all of us lose out as they have less volume and revenue to lower the cost of the units and develop new and better models. More reasonably priced software might not scare away as many potential customers and would certainly encourage a lot of folks like me to buy directly from Garmin (and gain the resulting revenue) rather than hunting for a used copy on which they'll make nothing. I want Garmin to continue to make high quality reasonably priced GPS units. I don't want them to get seduced away from that by the 80% margins they are making on [what is by most accounts mediocre] software.

To those that said Metroguide is fairly priced, I'll say this: At $115 list, I'm going to buy it on eBay as cheaply as I can as did Point2Point and lots of other folks based on the number of auctions on eBay. Obviously Garmin figured this would happen and bumped up the price of the software accordingly. The problem with that is this: All these people buying used software (legit or copies) means that GARMING GETS NO MONEY from the sale. If these programs were more like $50, I know I wouldn't be screwing around on eBay trying to nickel and dime the price. I'm sure others feel the same way. I would just buy it and Garmin would make some money in the process. So by keeping the price so high they are slitting their own throats. And I won't feel particularly bad that Garmin won't make any money off my Metroguide purchase simply because: 1) Its too darn expensive compared to other equal or often better mapping software packages and 2) Garmin has decided on a propriatary software system so we have no choice but to buy their product whether its good or bad. I don't know about you, but I like to have the freedom to pick the best product.

I have been looking to obtain the Metroguide software for my Garmin Vista. I know the list price is an outrageous $115. I have found it on the web (www.gps4fun.com among others) for an only slightly less outrageous $90. I figured the was the perfect thing to find on eBay. And I was right, sort of. There's plenty of copies out there but they inevitably get bid up quite high. For example, the copy I bid on today finally sold for $84, a mere $6 cheaper than a brand new copy with manuals could easily be purchased for with far less risk. A quick check of eBay history will show that this is fairly typical. All I can figure is this: People buy the software either from a store or eBay, they copy it and then resell it on eBay. Is this some kind of unwritten rule? This would certainly explain why people would pay top dollar even on eBay - they just plan on reselling it later and get the software at little or no cost. Any thoughts? Thanks.

If a pilot ever asked me to shut it off and put it away I would do so immediately. Nor would I ever do anything that would put the safety of the plane (or anyone on it) in jeapordy. What irritates me is when a flight attendant with barely a high school education and has not the foggiest notion what a GPS even is tells me I can't use it. If that list (referenced in this thread) of airlines that offically allow GPS' is correct, not only do these people not know what it is, they apparently don't even know their own company's policy on the subject! Sadly the events of 9/11 have given maximum authority to those people with a minimum of intelligence (ticket counter folks, gate attendants, flight attendants, x-ray screeners, etc.) My Vista looks almost identical to my cell phone so I can absolutely see the flight crew questioning me on that. I think I'm going to use that travel planner story, although putting on a pair of headphones and pretending to be-bop to the "tunes" on my GPS is too funny. I'll also continue to use it as discreetly as possible just to avoid questions in the first place. I'm going away next week and before I leave I'm going to check the USAir website (assuming they are still in business then ) and print out their policy if I can find it. Come to think of it, the reception on my Vista is so lousy I doubt it will even work on a plane. Does anyone know if the barometric altimeter can be shut off and just use the satellites to determine altitude? I assume the pressurized cabin will preclude the barometric altimeter from working properly. Or perhaps I can recalibrate it when the pilot announces what altitude we're currently flying at. Any thoughts?

If a pilot ever asked me to shut it off and put it away I would do so immediately. Nor would I ever do anything that would put the safety of the plane (or anyone on it) in jeapordy. What irritates me is when a flight attendant with barely a high school education and has not the foggiest notion what a GPS even is tells me I can't use it. If that list (referenced in this thread) of airlines that offically allow GPS' is correct, not only do these people not know what it is, they apparently don't even know their own company's policy on the subject! Sadly the events of 9/11 have given maximum authority to those people with a minimum of intelligence (ticket counter folks, gate attendants, flight attendants, x-ray screeners, etc.) My Vista looks almost identical to my cell phone so I can absolutely see the flight crew questioning me on that. I think I'm going to use that travel planner story, although putting on a pair of headphones and pretending to be-bop to the "tunes" on my GPS is too funny. I'll also continue to use it as discreetly as possible just to avoid questions in the first place. I'm going away next week and before I leave I'm going to check the USAir website (assuming they are still in business then ) and print out their policy if I can find it. Come to think of it, the reception on my Vista is so lousy I doubt it will even work on a plane. Does anyone know if the barometric altimeter can be shut off and just use the satellites to determine altitude? I assume the pressurized cabin will preclude the barometric altimeter from working properly. Or perhaps I can recalibrate it when the pilot announces what altitude we're currently flying at. Any thoughts?

Anyone have any experience using their GPS on a regular commercial flight? My GPS II+ had a good antenna so if I got a window seat it would work probably 75-80% of the time. However I have struggled with the flight crew on this subject. Typical interaction goes like this: Clueless High-School Dropout Flight-Attendant: What is that thing? Me: Its a GPS FA: What's a TBS? Me: Not a TBS, NBC, CBS HBO or even a FOX. Its a GPS! FA: That's like a radio. You can't use that here. ::By now another clueless flight attendant has stopped to see what's going on:: Me: Its not a radio. Its NOTHING like a radio. It uses satellites... 2nd FA: No, no. You can't use that. Put it away now. Me:...thinking to myself that since its only a month after the 9/11 hijackings it would be best not to make a big deal about this for fear I'll have 200 other passengers ready to kick my butt... Anyway, whenever I fly I always check the in-flight magazines where it says which devices are allowed and which are not. It seems like there are 2 categories of devices: 1) The kind you can use after initial takeoff like notebook computers, CD players, etc. 2) Those that aren't allowed at all, such as mobile phones. Now I don't fly all that much, but never have I seen a GPS fall on either list. So I therefore assume its my legal right to use the thing if I want. But a couple times I have had issues with the flight attendants. So now I just hide the unit under a newspaper or magazine and nobody seems to mind. Anyone have any experiences, thoughts or ideas on this?

"According to US Census Bureau statistics, the average Geocacher is a married, Caucasian male, 37 years old with 1.5 children and employed in the Information Systems field." You mean that the US census actually tracks the demographics of geocachers now? Has the sport become *that* popular? I didn't see that question on my census form Anyway, 35 here and in a profession much geekier than I.T....Finance!

"According to US Census Bureau statistics, the average Geocacher is a married, Caucasian male, 37 years old with 1.5 children and employed in the Information Systems field." You mean that the US census actually tracks the demographics of geocachers now? Has the sport become *that* popular? I didn't see that question on my census form Anyway, 35 here and in a profession much geekier than I.T....Finance!

I asked some questions about this in the GPS Units & Software forum and here's a summary of what was said: 1) Make sure the "Battery Saver mode" is OFF. 2) make sure the electronic compass is ON. Also make sure its kicking in at an appropriate speed. 3) Make sure your "battery type" is correct (i.e. if you're using Energizers make sure "alkaline" is selcted) 4) Make sure the compass is calibrated. 5) Though under heavy tree cover it won't matter much, make sure your WAAS is enabled. All these things will serve to minimize your battery life, but hey, you want to find the cache without looking like an idiot, right? You can read about the specifics here: http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=5740990093&m=6530976235 I'm not sure any of this will help completely though. Its hard to navigate to a very specific spot because there's always EPE to worry about. My typical EPE is 20-30 feet and fluctuates often. And if there's a lot of tree cover where you're navigating expect the EPE to be fairly high. But if the GPS let you to the exact spot the first time everytime, what fun would geocaching really be?

You folks are finding caches without a GPS??? I'm impressed! I can barely find them WITH my GPS! I too would suggest checking eBay for an inexpensive GPS to play with. If you don't like it you can put it back on eBay and probably get most of your money back or if you like it you can buy a fancy new one and sell the old one. I had a Garmin II+ and finally upgraded to a Vista and I am selling the old one ($100 including the data/lighter cable if anyone is interested).

You folks are finding caches without a GPS??? I'm impressed! I can barely find them WITH my GPS! I too would suggest checking eBay for an inexpensive GPS to play with. If you don't like it you can put it back on eBay and probably get most of your money back or if you like it you can buy a fancy new one and sell the old one. I had a Garmin II+ and finally upgraded to a Vista and I am selling the old one ($100 including the data/lighter cable if anyone is interested).

Please delete this message. It won't let me do it. Sorry! [This message was edited by ejmct on September 10, 2002 at 06:20 PM.]

Years ago when I was a kid I had a cheap watch (Casio or Timex) and it had a waterproof digital thermometer built into it. So I was thinking... How hard would it be for GPS manufacturers to incorporate a thermometer and a baramoter into a hand-held GPS like my Vista. Seems like since there is [theorectically] a barometric altimeter already in there, it shouldn't be that hard to add those weather-related things and maybe others I'm not even thinking about. I know it wouldn't do much in your car but if you're a hiker weather data like that might be helpful, especially if there was little added cost and size. I don't know if this has been brought up before, but its a thought...

On my way into work this morning I had the D's and my accuracy was 20-30 feet, which is pretty typical even when I am not getting any WAAS signal.

This topic was enlightening because I always thought that WAAS was that radio station in Cincinatti where Venus Flytrap & Dr. Johnny Fever worked Seriously, when I see those little "D's" on the satellite page of my Vista that means I'm getting WAAS-ed? I see that fairly frequently when I'm in the car.