PSUPAUL

Congratulations! All of you are true inspirations.

OK, I have the original email that caused me to start this posting. It was sent by someone who works in the Northeast regional office of the PA Game Commission. My friends boss as well as the Deputy Executive Director of that region were on the CC list. I will forward this email to KA and Salvelinus but I would prefer to not post it in it's entirety here. At least as far as the Northeast is concerned this is not a joke. edit- another stupid typo!

I loved the pun, Oh Buttered Trash Queen! It made my day.

Sorry if I seemed jumpy Salvelinus, I just wanted it clear that they were two seperate emails to two different people. The second one was a response from PGCCOMMENTS@STATE.PA.US to Team WBFire. He just asked me to forward and post it. No apology necessary. edit- I can never seem to type right the first time!

First of all, you are preaching to the choir, but we need to speak to the PGC. Secondly these came from two different people. My original post was a response to an email I received from a friend that works for the PGC. After my post another geocacher sent an email to the GC and received the long response where they were interpreting their own regulations. I think we have an issue but I am sure the KA, with his great contacts, can get us over this hurdle.

I think this is great! Hopefully it will lead to some traditional caches being allowed in NPS on at least a test basis.

After re-reading this post it seems they only want virtuals and consider traditionals the same as littering. Another cacher sent this email to the Game Commission Hi, I just received an e-mail that concerned me very much. I have been an avid hunter for 14 years and an outdoorsman all my life. I am involved with an organization called "Geocaching", and I've heard that you will no longer allow this on SGL's. I hope that this is only a rumor. I know myself and others that do this sport are all outdoor enthusiasts and do not damage their land. Most of us carry trash bags and remove garbage from these areas. I can't imagine that the State would not support people making public lands a better and cleaner place. Please respond to let me know if this is your new policy. The response was as follows: We do not have regulations regarding geo caching, per se. However, there are several regulations regarding State Game Lands use, which I will provide at the end of this e-mail. My main advice to you at this point would be to make the "treasurers" that geo cachers are seeking for on State Game Lands be points of interest or other natural or scenic views. You are not permitted to dig holes, cut or destroy vegetation or litter (which would preclude leaving tangible items for others to find). Also, as you will see from the SGL regs that follow, there are certain times of the year -- primarily the hunting seasons -- in which visitors to SGLs must wear the appropriate amount of blaze orange for obvious reasons Here are the two sections of the Game Commission regulations that you need to be aware of: § 135.2. Unlawful actions. In addition to the prohibitions in the act on lands, waters or buildings under Commission ownership, lease or jurisdiction, it is unlawful, except with the permission of the person in charge of the lands, to: (1) Camp or use campsites. (2) Plant, gather, cut, dig, remove or otherwise injure plants or parts thereof, including trees, shrubs, vines, flowering plants, cultivated crops, mushrooms and fruits of berry-producing plants. (3) Travel on lands by means of vehicle or conveyance propelled by motorized power. This prohibition does not include the travel by individuals permanently confined to a wheelchair propelled by electric power obtained from batteries. Individuals desiring to hunt from an electric powered wheelchair shall have a disabled person permit under section 2923 of the act (relating to disabled person permits). (4) Swim in a dam, pond, lake or stream. (5) Injure, destroy or cause damage to property-real, personal or mixed. (6) Remove or attempt to remove any manmade or natural object except wildlife and fish lawfully taken during the open season. Objects which may not be removed include animals, rocks, minerals, sand and historical or archaeological artifacts. (7) Participate in, become a part of, contribute to or engage in disorderly conduct as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § § 5503 and 5505 (relating to disorderly conduct; and public drunkenness). (8) Kindle, use or maintain an open fire. (9) Travel on roads open to vehicular travel with vehicle or conveyance propelled by motorized power which is not licensed or authorized for operation on a public highway under 75 Pa.C.S. (relating to the Vehicle Code). (10) Violate, fail or neglect to follow instructions posted on signs authorized by the Director. (11) Travel by mechanical or motorized conveyance or ride animals on newly constructed, seeded or planted roads, or other areas, when posted against the travel. § 135.41. State game lands. (a) Restrictions limited. The following exceptions to § 135.2 (relating to unlawful actions) pertain to lands and waters designated as State game lands: (1) Mushrooms and fruits of berry-producing plants may be picked. (2) Small open fires for cooking or warming purposes are permitted only at places where adequate precautions are taken to prevent the spread of fire which may damage adjacent areas and shall be attended at all times and completely extinguished before leaving the site of the fire. Open fires are prohibited when the fire index rating used by the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, is high, very high or extreme. A person causing a wildfire, in addition to possible criminal penalty, is liable for all damages, cost of extinguishing and fines. (3) Snowmobiles, as defined in 75 Pa.C.S. § 7702 (relating to definitions) may be driven beginning on the third Sunday in January through April 1 on designated areas, roads and trails marked with appropriate signs, so long as snowmobiles are registered and display valid registration decal as required under 75 Pa.C.S. § § 7711.1 and 7711.2 (relating to registration of snowmobile or ATV; and limited registration of snowmobile or ATV). ( Closure of game lands. (1) When the threat of forest fires exists, the Director has emergency authority to restrict the use of smoking materials on State game lands or to close State game lands to hunting, trapping, fishing, recreational use and other activity which may be or become detrimental to those lands or the flora or fauna thereon until the Director removes the restrictions. Emergency restrictions or closures will be announced to the news media. (2) The Director has the authority to close State game lands or portions thereof, to recreational or other uses, when the specified uses may be or have become detrimental to those lands or the flora or fauna thereon, or where the uses conflict with legal hunting, furtaking or fishing activities or the Commission's management or administration of State game lands. The closure may be seasonal or year-round and shall remain in effect until the Director removes the restrictions. (3) It is unlawful to violate restrictions or closure placed on these lands by the Director. © Additional prohibitions. In addition to the prohibitions contained in the act pertaining to State game lands and § 135.2, except with the written permission of the Director, it is unlawful to: (1) Contaminate, pollute or degrade groundwaters or surface waters or any waterways. (2) Graze or permit the grazing of livestock, place or maintain beehives or beekeeping apparatus. (3) Solicit, or place advertisements, signs or posters. (4) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal, except on roads normally open to public travel, or designated routes as posted, or while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing. (5) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal from the last Saturday in September until the third Saturday in January, and before 1 p.m. from the second Saturday in April through the last Saturday in May inclusive, except on Sundays or while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing. (6) Ride a nonmotorized vehicle, conveyance or animal on roads open to foot travel only. (7) Drive motor vehicles with or without attachments having a registered gross vehicle weight in excess of 12,000 pounds. (8) Use boats propelled by a motor. Battery powered electric motors may be used on waterways unless posted otherwise. (9) Consume, possess or transport any alcohol, liquor, beer, malt or brewed alcoholic beverage. (10) Use or possess any controlled substance as defined or classified under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act (35 P. S. § § 780-101-780-143). (11) Occupy, use or construct, place or maintain structures or other tangible property, except that portable hunting blinds or stands may be used, provided no visible damage is caused to trees. (12) Feed wildlife or lay or place any food, fruit, hay, grain, chemical, salt or other minerals. (13) Release domestic animals, captive bred or captive raised game or wildlife. (14) Operate a motor vehicle in willful and wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property or in excess of posted speed limits, or where no speed limit is posted, in excess of 25 miles per hour. (15) Target shoot with firearms, bows and arrows or devices capable of launching projectiles in a manner that could cause injury to persons or property, or on areas posted closed to those activities. (16) Except as provided in Subchapter J (relating to shooting ranges), discharge any firearm, bow and arrow, or device capable of launching projectiles that is not a lawful device to hunt game or wildlife. (17) Engage in an activity or event involving more than ten persons, which may conflict with the intended purposes or uses as defined in section 722 of the act (relating to use of property), or poses a potential environmental or safety problem. (18) Sell, distribute, deliver, service, guide or rent any equipment, material or commodity or otherwise transact or engage in any commercial activity. Commercial activity is any activity in which a person directly or indirectly accepts consideration of value as compensation for the provision of goods or services, including transportation. (19) Use State game lands for any personal, organizational or commercial purpose other than the intended use as defined in section 722 of the act. (20) Operate under authority of a contract, lease, agreement or permit and fail to abide by the terms and conditions contained in the contract, lease, agreement or permit. (21) Except on Sundays, be present on State game lands from November 15 through December 15 inclusive when not engaged in lawful hunting or trapping and fail to wear a minimum of 250 square inches of daylight fluorescent orange-colored material on the head, chest and back combined or, in lieu thereof, a hat of the same colored material. The material shall be worn so it is visible in a 360° arc. Persons using shooting ranges are exempted from this requirement. Sorry for the length of the post. edit after I read it more closely.

I am attempting to find out the originator of the original email. At this time I would rather not disclose my friends name. If anyone else has any friends maybe they can confirm. I truly hope I am Chicken Little or at least that we can meet with them and change their minds. If it is false I truly appologize for getting everyone worked up, as I am. But knowing my friends I doubt they would have faked the email to me. As long as the email to me is not a hoax then it arived on my friends PA GC email system. I will post any updates I receive. Hopefully someone else can look for independent verification. Thanks

This email was just forwarded to me by a State Game Lands employee. Paul, ***** just received this email from the Game Commission. Really, it is not a joke. Thanks for coming the other night! ***** > > > To All: > Just so this does not become an on-slaught of emails back and forth ad nauseam, the decision has been made that geo-caching will not be allowed on game lands. This will now be the state-wide policy and all employees will adhere to it. When found, geocaches will be removed. Geocachers will be given a warning, unless you know for a fact that they have been either warned or advised of the restriction in the past. If asked, all employees are to respond that geocaching is not allowed on state game lands. I hope that this removes all uncertainty as to how to deal with geocaching on Game Lands. We all have better things to do with our time than to debate the issue on email. The decision has been made. I hope either this is false or we can reverse this decision. We have set a great relationship with the PA DCNR which covers State Parks and State Forests, how do we appeal this decision to the State Game Commision? *Names removed at poster's request

I have run into cachers on the trail a few times and been very happy to meet them. We had a caching picnic last May with a pretty nice turnout and people could not have been nicer! We are looking forward to do it again. I met one particular cacher who is now one of my best friends. I highly recomend going to a meet and greet. We had cachers with single digit finds, one of the most prolific cache teams in CCCooper Agency, and other notables such as the CITO Queen Miss Jenn, and Lephrechaun from Pittsburg.

I feel personally attaqued! Moderate him! edit for a typo, really, even though it may be hard to believe

Wow Lep, you sound so International. I would think you would just say CHECK in the 'Burg! And may I say, pocket queries!

Hey KA, I will IM my pay pal acount to you, but I think the pictures have been posted at a CITO post. Oh, that means they are safe from being noticed. Oh bother, hopefully people will come to the event, if not there will at least be 10 of us. Maybe we should release a traditional cache at the park office! Thanks for the help,

Thanks KA, you are the best. I think you had the page approved before I even finished typing the post. I just now thought about going back in to post a link, and again you beat me to it.

IMLOST is creating a CITO event in the Wilkes-Barre area at Moon Lake Park. This park is a smaller county owned park with a few caches in it, but plenty of trails and locations for other caches. Unfortunately, some of it's areas need some clean up. If you are available on April 17th please come and help out while we also introduce caching to another land manager. The page should be up soon. Check back for more info. Thanks,

Congratulations to both Army Scout and Sparky's son. Please know that we appreciate what you do and you have our undying gratitude. Now get busy giving Sparky his grand kids, a much better past time!

Heck, we would be glad to have a Lazy and unemployed, but powerfully wealthy EMS worker living in our area, particularly if I can borrow his power tools and lawn equipment. Sparky, come on down to NE PA, I mean AZ, yeah I live in AZ!

Here are two I have found Going to a Mets Game Moving Cache this is currently disabled while the owner gets it ready for the 2004 season. and 1977 AMC Pacer Traveler this is more of a Travel Bug

where the HECK did you find that? At this cache Shatford Memorial Park Did you leave it there or did someone else? I was planning on putting it in a PA cache but I like having it as part of my sig item collection. Would you rather I place it? i'm already decaffeinated. hard to believe, but true. Wow, what are you like on caffeine? BTW, I don't care for SU because of being a huge fan of PSU Football and we used to play SU in my student days, pre Big 10 affiliation. We hear a lot about SU BB nowadays because of one of their good players, Gerry Mac is from my area. Also, how far are you from the town that wants to leave VT and join NH? Are there any caches there and how would GC handle the state listing? Just a thought. Have fun caching!

Wow, Flask, try decaf! BTW, I have one of your pennies.

From what I gather, flask is a bit cranky because there are no new geocaches in the area. I can understand that. It's getting to the point now that I have to drive over 100 miles round trip to find caches...... Wow, Sparky has 48 finds (congrats by the way!) and now has to drive 100 miles to get new caches! You need to move to a more cache rich area.

But you spoke to Mopar!

This was followed by many people claiming this cache as a find, in a virtual way! Eventually the owner said the cache must be missing so you can log it as a virt, but it is still listed as a traditional cache! the log from the next finder, to much glass to bother looking! And these logs were from people with many finds! edit added another log, and took out location

Is that good or bad? Nothing wrong with it unless you get accosted by people wanting you to fix their computers or give them money!

I second Miss Jenn, I am proud to help out with your cache and will keep the name the same. Please send me any pictures you may have for the Loyalsock Cache. I dropped off the permit paperwork at the District Forest office yesterday, I should have the permit as soon as they figure out what the internal process is and they get somne stickers. When I spoke to the District Forester he was familiar with geocaching and the caches in his district but was not familiar with the DCNR permit procedure. Thanks,