yumitori

You might want to start with this list of shelters. It includes coordinates for each one, and there's a link on the page to the ATC's waypoint files for more detailed information.

Now that the frenzy has died down a bit, I have Flying Spaghetti Monster coins in both metals available for trades. I haven't yet gotten my act together and set up any lists for my collection, so feel free to make any offers or point me to your trading lists.

For fear of being burned at the stake for being lucky, I admit that I did succeed in ordering a couple extra of both the silver and the bronze. I knew they would be highly desired and wanted something appropriate to trade for some of the more rare coins out there that I'd like for my own collection. If anyone would like to contact me and arrange a trade, my gmail.com username is also 'yumitori'.

Colin Fletcher's books, including The Complete Walker were vastly inspirational when I first started backpacking. Lightweight backpacking has moved beyond his teachings, but he was one of the first to suggest that we could enter the backcountry without carrying enough break a mule's back. I will always be indebted to him.

Leonata & I will be bringing a bunch of these pennies to Champoeg. The contest is scheduled to end the same weekend, so we'll pick up some extras on our way to the event. First come, first served...

I'm curious how geo-genie is supposed to 'guarantee' that the puzzle solution is the correct one. I recall a website that purported to provide puzzle solutions. When I looked at one of my caches listed there (without my permission), the 'answer' was completely wrong.

If you really don't want to use it for any of the ideas already suggested or other possible uses, you can archive the submission. It won't be actually deleted, but it won't appear on your profile page. You'd have to follow one of the limks from there to find it.

Patience, patience. We've been told that the Montana coins are in the works and I'm sure that's the case. So for folks looking for another state coin to add to their collection, hang on a little longer.

I'd like to throw my name into the hat to buy or trade. I don't have any coins of my own, but I do have quite a few in my collection that I can part with. I'd like one of each, please. And if you do make rarer versions and would be interested in trades of comparable value, I think I can come up with something.

By your definition this group 'owns' Forest Park as well. The thread is about whether or not geocaches in Forest Park meet the regulations there. General political discussions regarding advocacy groups is off-topic. It appears I have received my answer. Thanks!

That's not necessarily true. That's the answer folks are getting here. What's the difference between a cacher hiding fifty film canisters a tenth of a mile apart along a ten mile bike trail, and fifty film canisters a mile apart along a fifty mile stretch of road? Both are hidden just to pump numbers and both can be hidden just as quickly with not thought or planning. Both can be considered power trails. I don't consider my example a power trail, but the attempts of one cacher to turn it into something more like a power trail led to several poorly designed geocaches. That's the problem. If your special trail is indeed so special, bring folks back to it again and again by hiding a nice container every few months. Or just hide one at the end, and people will see the entire trail as they hike to it.

Um, wow. That's an awful lot of caches along a very short trail. From end to end it's just couple of miles depending on how far you can drive up Carveacre Road and the forest service road it connects to. Hiking around will certainly add a bit of distance, but still it looks like as though you can park a vehicle at one end and then drive around to the other and hike end to end. Do folks in your area really not walk two or three miles if you don't place a cache container every 500 - 600 feet along a trail? I see that there's a few ammo cans in the mix, but most seem to be cheap, otherwise disposable containers. Do they not look at the sights and check out the viewpoints along the way if you don't place altoid tins at each one? Wouldn't hikers get the same experience if your group each hid one cache, spread out along the route to take folks to whatever ultimate destination you wanted to bring them to?

I remember a bunch of caches we found all in one day, in an area we geocache in frequently. Someone had gone out and place a cache in a spot that required some walking, then someone else place another cache along the same trail with a completely different view, then a third person did something similar, and so forth. Someone even used the area to hide their puzzle container in. One of the locals had noticed that the number of caches along the trails were growing, so they helpfully went out and placed containers between some of the others, named Area Name 1, Area Name 2, etc. So we decided to cache in the area. We hiked several miles, gained well over a 1000 feet of elevation (and lost it all again). We looked at big rocks, checked out tall TV towers, and dabbled in alchemistry. We had great fun. We also found several caches, hidden by several folks. That was a 'power caching loop' thanks to the filler caches. Unfortunately the numbered 'series' placed in some of the gaps along the trail have turned out to be in inexpensive containers and poorly maintained. We found problems when we located them, and some three years later I'm seeing many of the same comments in recent logs. It would be sad if that bunch that were all hidden on the same day to create a 'power caching trail' turned out to be discouraging folks from hiding other geocaches in sturdier containers. Already one of the caches we found that day has been archived because the owner thought there was getting to be 'too many caches' along the trail. It's finally been replaced nearly three years later by a new geocache nearby, but in the intervening time what could have been a reasonably challenging hike with several fun hides along the way is instead decaying into a loop of mostly geotrash. I appreciate the desire to provide a fulfilling geocaching experience for folks who come to an area, including placing lots of caches to find, but when the hides are rushed and hidden primarily to 'fill in' an area, the tendency seems to be to rush the containers as well. It's a lot easier in the short term to carry a bunch of film canisters or gladware containers than it is to carry a half dozen ammo cans, but ultimately the quick and easy route means either a lot more maintenance trips or more commonly a lot of abandoned and moldering caches.

RK, thank you for your thoughts. I've dealt with advocacy groups before, and know how some of their members sometimes speak to the media claiming more authority or knowledge than they actually have. But I was asking a specific question about a specific park. I've cached in Forest Park several times before and did not recall any restrictions on geocaching, letterboxing, or other off-trail use. Thus my questions, since I can't just run out there to check at the moment. I was hoping to hear back from the Portland-area cachers who would know the local regulations (and perhaps to give them a heads-up as well that someone is trashing geocaching in their local media). Klossner, thanks for finding that link for me.

This was posted to a letterboxing mailing list I belong to. Volunteer crews get by with a little help from their friends About halfway down Gail Snyder of Friends of Forest Park declares geocaching and letterboxing 'illegal' because they take folks off-trail. I thought I had understood at some point that the local geocaching community had a good working relationship with the land managers at Forest Park. Was I mistaken? Or does Ms. Snyder just not know what she is talking about?

Renegade Knight already answered that. Letterboxes are not listed on any particular site, or any site at all. Clues might be hidden in other letterboxes, passed on during gatherings or at other face-to-face meetings, or in other ways. A letterbox no more requires a listing on a cetral website than a geocache does. I see nothing on geocaching.com, especially in the paragraph you quoted, that states that letterbox hybrids should be any different. The link you mention is purely for general educational purposes.

I think I know what inspired Chumpo's rant in the first place, and it has nothing to do with wet or full logs or a container welded shut by time. There are those caches which require a certain 'extra' effort in order to log them. For example, I have a travel bug hotel which is locked to keep the bugs from disappearing if the container is accidentally found. I have had to request that a couple of finders change their 'Found It' to a 'Note' because they couldn't figure out the combination. Just seeing the cache may not be enough, which I believe is what Chumpo is saying.

From logs I've seen on some of the Flash Events, you are correct; people found that 15 minutes just wasn't enough and went out to lunch or whatever afterwards. Which just supports what I've been saying from the beginning, that these timed gatherings do not provide what folks go to geocaching events for. I can appreciate the pleasure in doing something silly, but it seems to me that there can be ways to satisfy folks' desire for silliness and provide opportunities for camaraderie, good food, fun cache hunts, and so forth as well. For example, Champoeg comes to mind...

<sigh> Given the number of intelligent people participating in this thread, there is a surprising amount of mis-reading going on. First off, I fully expected someone would misinterpret my phrasing, but thought it worthwhile nevertheless in the faint hope that it might get through to Snoogans. Nothing less ... powerful, shall we say, has so far. Secondly, you too are focusing too narrowly upon my advice. It was not 'Shut up and go fall off the face of the Earth', it was 'Shut up and let other people talk, like you asked them to in the first place'. I went on to advise Snoogans that he was hurting the perception of his ODiouS caches through his actions in this thread. Snoogans, and you and a couple of others as well, argue incessantly with each and every person who posts less than glowing comments and thoughts in this thread. The resulting message is, "We do not have sufficient faith in the ODiouS caches and do not believe that the project can stand on its own merits, so we have to continually badger and insult any objections to it into submission ourselves." I suspect that you and Snoogans do not realize that you are sending that message, thus the advice to him to back off for awhile. It's sad he won't listen. Even now I continue to be amused at how he is going on and on, saying I 'provoked' him by posting my experiences of actual caches hidden as part of his project. They are in an area I know quite well, hidden by geocachers whose style and skill I am very familiar with. The ODiouS containers I have found there do not live up to these folks' typical quality of hides, nor are they typical of the geocaches placed in the region as a whole. My observations are that these caches are sub par in comparison. I tried to take into account other factors and if I remove the caches hidden as part of Snoogans' project from consideration I do not notice a significant change from my experiences a year ago. It is the ODiouS caches that are dragging down the average, as it were. If there is not something about the project that is causing this, I do not know what the explanation might be. I would be interested in hearing alternative hypotheses. What I have shared in this thread are my objective observations of actual geocaches. That Snoogans considers my thoughts and comments about these experiences 'provocations' is quite sad. But really, not surprising.

You highlighted the wrong bit. I'm sure that if I ever have unsolicited advice to give you I'll try and phrase it in a manner best suited to get your attention. I doubt I'd need to resort to the 'boot to the head' approach, but then you aren't Snoogans. Meanwhile, if he's offended he knows where to find the moderators.

No, no you really haven't been. Very kind of you to grant me permission to post in a forum that you have no moderator powers for. Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. You supposedly start this thread to solicit opinions about your ongoing project. You are doing yourself no favors by jumping on each and every post that does not paint your ODiouS caches in the best possible light. If you really want folks' responses, then let them respond already. This thread would be half as long as it is currently if you would accept criticism gracefully rather than try and argue with each and every post by each and every person with a contrary position. If you just want a suck-up fest where posting is limited to only those who think your film canisters are the best thing since global positioning satellites, then go start a thread specifically for that purpose. I promise to stay out of it. I'll also stay out of any threads created solely for mindlessly bashing your project. I posted here because you asked for people to give their thoughts regarding ODiouS caches. If you didn't want truthful responses, you shouldn't have asked for them. I don't 'got' anything. This isn't some verbal Fight Club where I smack you around with my satirical repartee and you stagger back, shake it off, and advance with, 'Is that it? That's all ya got?' before smacking me down in return. If you want mindless debate, there are other arenas set aside for it. What I have are my comments regarding actual ODiouS caches placed in an area I know well. They aren't some vague, 'Oh My God, you're flooding the world with seventy gajillion pieces of geotrash!' fears. They are thoughts and concerns based on my actual observations of your project in the field. I'm sorry if you aren't happy to hear my account, but your feelings do not invalidate my personal experiences.

Snoogans, were you lying when you said ... If you really want folks' 'thoughts, comments, and questions', then why are you trying to attack every legitimate response that is not unadulterated glowing support? I said that the local 'geocaching spirit' was just fine when they hid caches that were not part of the ODiouS project. It was the film canisters placed as part of your project that were all sub par. Again, if it's not the cachers (they can obviously still place good caches) and it's not the local style (caches there have traditionally been a treat to find), then why do their ODiouS caches suck? Get back to me when you actually want my thoughts and comments.

I regularly geocache in our neighboring states. A year ago we found a great variety of caches in the area, not just in size, but in styles of hides, camouflage, terrain, and difficulty. We enjoyed visiting as we always did, due to the time and effort the locals put into their hides, which were usually ammo cans, sturdy plastic boxes, bison capsules or other durable containers. There had already been seed caches created by locals, the idea of which the finders embraced and showed great imagination in continuing when they hid its 'children'. Then this year someone imported an ODiouS seed cache. In their favor, it was not a discarded coffee canister but rather an ammo can. And the film canisters were each painted with a different animal, and the hides from the seed cache were all named for their critter. Sadly, this attempt to make a bunch of disposable film canisters more interesting had only a short-lived benefit. By the time we found them, the paint was flaking off and their previous beauty was barely recognizable. But what I found most noteworthy was that even though these film canisters were hidden by many of the same folks whose previous hides I recall fondly, none of the ODiouS caches stand out. None were even particularly interesting. Caching in the area now seems repetitive as we go from cache to cache with much the same identical little hides in much the same sort of drive-up spots. Oh, a few of the owners tried, as the hider of the seed container tried when they painted canisters. But for all the ones we found, none were up to their usual standards. I wonder why that is. Other hides by the same folks in the same time period showed their usual talent for placing interesting caches so it wasn't wide-spread burnout. Perhaps the film canisters, despite their paint jobs, did not inspire special effort. Perhaps the owners felt rushed to place the containers anywhere just to get them out. Perhaps there is some other reason each and every ODiouS cache I've found so far has been below par. But if it's not the local 'style' and it's not the cachers placing the containers, perhaps it has something to do with the series itself.

Our backpacking French Press and coffee.

Snow Peak GigaPower WG Stove INTRODUCTION The GigaPower WG is Snow Peak's introductory entry into the field of white gas stoves. Boasting high heat output, lightweight components, and quiet operation, the GigaPower WG is intended to be the new standard against which other white gas stoves will be measured; but it's ability to reduce its flame down to almost nothing is what sets it apart from it's closest current competitors in the lightweight field. Already Backpacker Magazine has selected it as a recipient of its 2001 Editor's Choice Award. Does the GigaPower WG truly live up to its promise? STOVE FACTS The GigaPower WG includes a 520 ml fuel bottle, repair kit, fuel gauge, and two stuff sacks, and incorporates a wind screen in the burner unit. No priming is necessary except in freezing temperatures (see below). Snow Peak reports the stove's output is 10,000 BTU. While the stove is not intended to be used with a variety of fuels, Snow Peak notes that regular unleaded gasoline may be used for short periods, but results in poor performance. The GigaPower WG stove retails for $149.95. Specification ......................................... Snow Peak ........................ Measured Values Dimensions of stove - Open ................. 4"w x 4-1/4"d x 4"h ........... 4"w x 4-3/4"d x 3-7/8"h Dimensions of stove - Stowed .............. 2-1/2"w x 3-1/2"d x 4"h .... 2-3/4"w x 3-1/2"d x 3-7/8"h Weight - assembled stove .....(stove, hose, pump) ........................12.5 oz. ............................... 12.8 oz. .....Stove alone .................................... 8.25 oz. ............................... 8.5 oz. Weight - fuel bottle .............................. 4.75 oz. ............................... 5.2 oz. Weight - miscellaneous items .....(repair kit, fuel gauge, stuff sacks) ..... ~ ...................................... 2.5 oz. PERFORMANCE REVIEW The GigaPower WG includes detailed instructions, and numerous warnings (four stickers total) that "This stove... requires a completely different procedure for lighting." Despite this, I have found the process not unsimilar to that of certain other stoves on the market. In testing, the stove lights quickly and with little effort. Initially I had a small amount of difficulty with yellow flames upon lighting, but increasing the pressure in the fuel bottle solved that problem. Adjusting from 'High' to simmer is easy to do. The lowest setting of the flame control does indeed qualify as 'simmer', yet it is not possible to accidentally shut off the flame entirely. While not silent, at full output the noise volume is minimal. At simmer levels, the stove cannot be heard at all. Measurements - weights were made using a postal scale, and confirmed with my personal digital scale. Dimensions were rounded up to the next highest 1/8th inch. For stowed dimensions, the flame control lever was included, since its presence affects space requirements. It was not included in the 'open' measurements. Boil time for one liter of water starting at 68° F (20° C) in a covered pot was 4 minutes, 15 seconds (elevation 3200'). This time was based on when steam was first observed, a common means of recognizing that the water is boiling. Lighting the stove in cold temperatures ( around 10° F (-12° C)) was not possible without priming, but with priming it lit easily. The GigaPower WG is quite stable in normal use. Even at full output flames remain directed at the bottom of the 1-1/2 liter pot used for testing, without licking up the sides. The pot supports are sufficiently close together to allow small items, such as a single cup espresso maker, to be carefully balanced without additional support rings. The built-in windscreen eliminates the need to fiddle with a separate item on windy days. As a side note - I received reports that one retailer found problems with the hose connections. In my use, the threaded joint was quite solid. I have had no concerns regarding its strength. CONCLUSIONS & RECOMMENDATIONS With a weight competitive with the lightest white gas stoves on the market, and the ability to simmer, the GigaPower is indeed worthy of consideration by those seeking the perfect stove. Unfortunately the suggested retail price is quite high compared with other similar stoves. The expense is mitigated somewhat by the inclusion of a fuel bottle and repair kit, but even so the GigaPower is significantly more. Ease of use is a consideration, however. I find the stove to be extremely simple to operate, even under difficult conditions, and its size allows packing the stove, all of its components, and fuel bottles sufficient for a week's use in a single outside pocket. I would recommend for the Snow Peak GigaPower WG stove to anyone whose primary concern is not price. CONTACT INFORMATION Snow Peak U.S.A., Inc. ............................ Snow Peak, Inc. 4754 Avery Lane ..................................... 958,Sanganji Lake Oswego, OR 97035 ......................... Sanjo-City, Niigata 955-8616 USA Japan phone: 503-697-3330 ............................. phone: 0256-38-1110 fax: 503-699-1396 ................................... fax: 0256-38-1015 e-mail: info@snowpeak.com .................... e-mail: miyajima@snowpeak.co.jp URL: http://www.snowpeak.com/ ............. URL: http://www.snowpeak.co.jp Final Note This review is five years old now, so some of the details may no longer apply to current models, and some of the contact information may have changed. I'm leaving it the way it is for the historical perspective it will hopefully provide.