Byron & Anne

I will probably send a Byron's famous stump pin. But I do have a couple of questions. 1) Where will these items be kept? 2) Will they be kept in such a manner that we can view them? Maybe a museum corner of Grounspeak? 3) Is the intent to keep them as artifacts for as long a geocaching exists. If there is to be an on-line picture museum only, pictures should work just fine. If the intent is to create some sort of physical display that anybody could view, that would be cool.

You might try clicking on that icon that way "Want Gear" or you can just click here http://shop.Groundspeak.com/

quote:Originally posted by Atilla the Pun: His comment was not sanctimonious. Just a practical reminder that _someone_ pays for all the "free" software and music that gets distributed via Morpheus, Gnutella, et. al. AtP Sure he's sanctimonious. He didn't pay for those free sattelites he's using for his GPS. Look out --- here comes the flames..

quote:Originally posted by Atilla the Pun: His comment was not sanctimonious. Just a practical reminder that _someone_ pays for all the "free" software and music that gets distributed via Morpheus, Gnutella, et. al. AtP Sure he's sanctimonious. He didn't pay for those free sattelites he's using for his GPS. Look out --- here comes the flames..

Making flat statements that permission needs to be acquired prio to placing a cache does not take into account that things are different in different parts of the country. One the other side to say that you never need permission does the same thing. In western and southwestern part of the country and thier wide open spaces, it would probably be foolish to ask permission every time a cache was placed. The government agencies that have control of the land would probably get tired of being asked in very short order and ban it. As for use of public lands out here it usually best to ask forgiveness than ask permission. Some of the county and/or state parks might frown on the activity. Therefore I usually stick to National Forest Service, BLM, and some of the private timber companies lands. I realize that not all parts of the country are the same. If the rules are different for your part of the country use those rules. Since I don't live in VA or NY or any of those place I can't say what the rules. My guess that in NY they are different if you're close to the city than if you're in the Adirondacks. The Catskills might have even different rules. There is not blanked rule that fits all the country. I would suggest that a person go to the local forums and ask about the rules for your area. Sorry to rant on. Happy caching

There are many caches on National Forest Lands out here in the Pacific North West. One administrator has objected to caches in designated Wilderness areas. Placeing any cache on "public" land needs to be placed in such a manner that will not do harm to sensitive areas.

Gee, I hate to tell you this but you didn't spell McMinville correctly. I think you spelled it Wilsonville.

Gee, I hate to tell you this but you didn't spell McMinville correctly. I think you spelled it Wilsonville.

Are these forums or are they mail lists?

quote:Originally posted by Seth!: Damascus? Man, I hope that you're referring to some place in Oregon. Otherwise that's a heck of a long way to go for ammo cans. Yup Damascus. It's just down the road a bit from Boring, Oregon.

quote:Originally posted by Seth!: Damascus? Man, I hope that you're referring to some place in Oregon. Otherwise that's a heck of a long way to go for ammo cans. Yup Damascus. It's just down the road a bit from Boring, Oregon.

I agree with Mark on the stream thing. The assumption has to be correct as to which trail, stream, power line, etc. you are close to. There is a series of maps that are used in the Washington, nothern Oregon area that use a nonstandard scale making UTM unusable. That all said. I believe that anybody traveling in a wilderness type area should know how to effectively use an old fashioned map and compass. If they wish, as I have, add the convience of a GPSr then it would be wise to learn both UTM and degrees methods of navigation. As with most things of this type there are times and cases where one will work better than another. Byron

When I first discovered and understood UTM, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The bigest draw back I found was 1) you needed to have UTM grids on your maps. 2) Different maps can have different scaling. Using one of the clear plastic UTM things doesn't work on all maps. Now with deg,min I can locate myself very easily at any time with a simple straight edge, an orientering compass, and my GPS. You can always find a spot with deg,min, the corners work well. Set a corner as a waypoint. Set go to and get bearing. Draw a line from that point at 180° from the bearing. Pick another point and do the same. Where the lines cross is where you are. Note: If you're on a trail or by a stream. Where the first line crosses the trail or stream is where you are. I haven't given it enough thought to come up with a way to set in the coords for a point on a map using a simular technique. At this time UTM beats me out here. Guess I'll have to work on this one.

quote:Originally posted by Kodak's4: The problem I see with this attitude is that the current scheme is this: cache hunters get rewarded by finding caches placed by the cache hiders. In turn, the cache hiders get rewarded by reading the logs written by the people who have hunted for caches. In my mind, hunting for a cache and not giving the hider the satisfaction of reading a log entry is just as selfish as writing up a very enticing cache description, complete with clever puzzles, and making it public at http://www.geocaching.com, but not actually bothering to go hide a cache box. After all, I'd get the fun of planning the cache, and it's only a convention that the cache planner actually hide something people can find. If I don't want to follow the rules, who has any right to complain? It seems like a small thing, I know. But small things have a way of adding up, usually badly. If you don't do your part as a cache hunter (by signing the log book and making an online log) hiding caches becomes less fun. If it stops being fun, people will stop hiding them. And then you won't have any to go hunt. In an area where geocaching is pretty established, there's probably not much harm in not posting logs. In an area where geocaching is struggling to be established, it might make quite a difference in how many caches people bother to hide. And, in the end, I view the online log as just another way to say Thank You to the cache hider. Sure, there's no way to force someone to say thanks. But it's certainly polite, and it's nicer to live in a world where people say please and thank you, even if it's not a legal issue. Yesterday, I spent a very pleasant six hours hunting geocaches, for a total of nine finds. It took me less than 15 minutes to log all nine finds, working from notes that I took on the way. It's not like making online logs is an onerous burden. There's a big difference between preferring that things happen in a particular way and demanding that they happen that way. In fact I agree that most enjoyment out of geocaching is sharing stories about the finds. When I hid a cache I want it to be found and logged both on the web page and in the log book. That, to me, is what it's all about. With that said, I believe it is pointless to try and demand or force others to do the same. It's great the most of us do the full log thing, including failures. I also know that I/we can't force any individual to play the same way. Even if you closed the web to the public and made it all memebers only, there's nothing that can stop members from finding and not bothing to log the find in the book or the web. The best we can hope for is that most of us will follow the agreed upon actions, including telling your story. I think that most of us will continue to hide, find, trade, and tell our story. I also feel that those that don't are missing out on some of the fun. The only way I know of that might work is try to convience those the don't play the way we wish that they are missing something, which I think they are. If they can't be convienced to play our way then we have a choice, let them be or make them mad at us by trying to force them to play our way. This is one of the more fun activities that's come along in many years. It can stop being fun if, 1. Most geocachers stop playing any one of hide, find, trade, log. 2. We try to force everybody to play hide, find, trade, log. I believe this could bring about 1. above.

quote:Originally posted by RAD Dad: No rules huh? So if someone's version of the game is looking up caches going to the location and stealing the whole thing, that would encourage more people to join? If someone else thinks it would be fun to place fecal material in the cache, and do so in as many as possible, more people would join in? Anarchy doesn't breed tranquility, it brings about strife, and eventually the game would just not be fun any more. Rules of conduct are what make games fun, for that matter they are what makes a game a game. Unenforceable rules breed contempt for rules. quote:Expecting people to play by rules may weed out those who wish to be disruptive to the game, or who are so self-centered that they would only be a distraction to the game. I like rules, many rules used to be unwritten, just basic rules of civil conduct, but as more and more people insist on not playing in a way that is considerate to others, unwritten rules become written, and so on. ummmm....not sure what to say here....so ummm, well errrr, uhhhh, well I guess that's it. When a container is left someplace unattended there is no way to create or enforce rules. To whine and carry on about what happens after that container and it's contents are left unattended is useless. Therefore the best way to enjoy the activity is to encourage more caches and more players and accept that others may choose to play differently. Game is not a correct term for geocaching in general, some people can make a game of it if they choose and others may choose not to make a game of it. Tolerance for differences is what makes it work and will continue to make it work. You can enjoy the activity your way and I can enjoy it mine. You can have your opinion and I can have mine. And we can be friends, if you wish.

On of the appealing things about geocaching is the lack of "rules". If a person chooses to play the game by finding and not logging the find that's entirely up the them. There is no way to enforce a requirement like that. I also don't believe that a person should be critized for how they play. This is an open game, open to all comers. The fewer "rules" the more will play. More players mean more caches to find. The more restrictions placed on players the fewer players and the game soon ends. Buchroo Banzi -- I think you should be welcomed with open arms and encouraged to continue to play as suits you.

Having lived in the area of this cache I understand the "goofy Idahoans". For one thing there's being shot at and there's being shot. If truely trying to do harm to somebody that somebody would not have been shot at, they would have been shot. Most Idahoans only miss when they want to.

I have a Magellan GPS Companion. I don't know of any way to download waypoints into NavCompanion. I purchased Fugawi mapping software. You can enter waypoints on the PC desktop, plot routes, and download them all to the Fugawi Palm application in your palm or visor. Fugawi is quite powerful, but as with many powerful programs it takes a little more time and work to understand. Top maps have to be acquired and if you want elevation shown on the desktop maps you also need to get a Digital Elevation Model (DEM) for each top map. DEMs are free but the maps aren't. At this point I don't know if the cost of time and money are really worth it. I think I'll need to use it for several months before I'll know all the ins, outs, and advantages. No the waypoints downloaded via Fugawi cannot be used by NavCompanion, at not that I've been able to find. You have to use the Fugawi for the Fugawi waypoints. I feel that at some point there will be more software to run these neat little GPSrs.

I have a Magellan GPS Companion. I don't know of any way to download waypoints into NavCompanion. I purchased Fugawi mapping software. You can enter waypoints on the PC desktop, plot routes, and download them all to the Fugawi Palm application in your palm or visor. Fugawi is quite powerful, but as with many powerful programs it takes a little more time and work to understand. Top maps have to be acquired and if you want elevation shown on the desktop maps you also need to get a Digital Elevation Model (DEM) for each top map. DEMs are free but the maps aren't. At this point I don't know if the cost of time and money are really worth it. I think I'll need to use it for several months before I'll know all the ins, outs, and advantages. No the waypoints downloaded via Fugawi cannot be used by NavCompanion, at not that I've been able to find. You have to use the Fugawi for the Fugawi waypoints. I feel that at some point there will be more software to run these neat little GPSrs.

There are two problems causing the blury pictures. First. The distance between the camera lens and the GPS is probably less than the minimum focal distance. If it's a point and shoot without any focusing abilities the minimum distance is usually around 4 ft. Cameras that have focusing abilities can usually get to around 18" without macro abilities. With macro you can get much closer and still be able to focus the camera. Second. This is just as important, but probably not your main cause of blur. The camera and the object need to be moving at the same speed in the same direction when the shutter is released. For most subjects zero speed is a good number. You can take a picture of something in a moving car, for example, and have it clear and the background, through the window blured. Hope this clears things up a bit.

There's no such thing as a 2 year old cache. The very first cache was place May 3, 2000. It was place near the more current, now on hold, Un-Orginal Stash, GC92

Here's another one of them park guys that found a cache. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4016

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