Byron & Anne

Read this log. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4973

Read this log. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4973

I'd really like to hear from Jermey on this one.

Why virtual?

Gosh oh golly, is there such a thing as "a legitimate find or log"? Are we talking laws and rules and such? Who's making the rules or laws? Who's been hurt or damaged in some way by an "illegitimate" find? Then there's this cheating thing. As far as I knew the only thing referred to as cheating is when you activate the "hint" link. So who's being cheated, eh? How did some body "cheating" at geocaching rip you off, hmmmmm?

quote:Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah: if you pay them money they make a profit. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI Tell that to ENRON

quote:Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah: if you pay them money they make a profit. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI Tell that to ENRON

I seem to remember a small article in a Backpacker Mag. But then my memory doesn't work as good as it used to.

Exocet, you can count me on this listserv.

quote:Originally posted by TeamWSMF: I dont like the groups that become these huge far reaching lobby organizations with politcal implications way beyond the core of thier creation. I would hate to see some sort of geolobby spring up that would jump in and out of bed with the NPS, BLM, FS, FWS etc etc and whose memebers would do little more than argue amongst themselves on the sematics and minutia of each and every twitch in the air. There are so many "organzied" efforts to "spend" ones time on, I dont want to see geocaching get stuck in that particular pit. I prefer loose associations of people whose goals happen to come togther in very defined points of interest. -tom ---------------------------- TeamWSMF@wsmf.org I think there's ways to avoid the megaclub thing. I do think that there will be an International organization someday. To create an organization like your last statement I suggest that some of the existing organizations be looked at to gleen the best of what's out there. One that is very loose like Tom is advocating is the National Wood Carvers Association. They have a web site at http://www.chipchats.org

Alan you have a lot of good points. It seems that the idea of a nonprofit organization is really scary to some people. However it's already starting to happen. Look at the events section of the main page of geocaching.com. Some of those events are sponsored by what appears to be such organizations. My guess is that they probably are registered yet. The operating word here is "yet". As this activity grows there will be more and more local groups organizing. At some point a national organization will be formed with individual members or member organizations. Kawinis Clubs are a good example of member organizations. A person is not a member of Kawinis International, but the local clubs are members. This give the local clubs a little more to say about how they run. Yelling and screaming that this is bad and were're not going to do this is kind of like standing in front of train. You can't stop it. The benifits are too great. An example of what a nonprofit organization can do for an outdoor activity can be found in the snowmobile clubs. When snowmobiles first came out they got a very bad reputaion amongst out winter recreationests. A few snowmobiliers were rude to others and some downright dangerous. They were almost banned from public lands. They organized, did some good things, and as result have insured that their activities will continue. I'm not going to be the one to start an organization. But, I would suggest that all of us keep in mind what this future organization should look like and be ready to provide some input when the time comes. The time will come, as it has with every other outdoor activity I can think of. Now can we all shake virtual hands and be friends and fellow geocachers. Good times are still here and more good times are to be had. (by the way Hawk-eye, I'm not about to leave. Shoot, I just paid $30 to support Jeremy, why leave now? Some day I'd like to meet you discuss some of our differences. Bet we have more in common that one might think. Maybe we could even swap a few geocaching lies eerr... ahhh ...stories. Until that day, keep the blood pressure down and continue the quest to find that tupper box.)

Alan you have a lot of good points. It seems that the idea of a nonprofit organization is really scary to some people. However it's already starting to happen. Look at the events section of the main page of geocaching.com. Some of those events are sponsored by what appears to be such organizations. My guess is that they probably are registered yet. The operating word here is "yet". As this activity grows there will be more and more local groups organizing. At some point a national organization will be formed with individual members or member organizations. Kawinis Clubs are a good example of member organizations. A person is not a member of Kawinis International, but the local clubs are members. This give the local clubs a little more to say about how they run. Yelling and screaming that this is bad and were're not going to do this is kind of like standing in front of train. You can't stop it. The benifits are too great. An example of what a nonprofit organization can do for an outdoor activity can be found in the snowmobile clubs. When snowmobiles first came out they got a very bad reputaion amongst out winter recreationests. A few snowmobiliers were rude to others and some downright dangerous. They were almost banned from public lands. They organized, did some good things, and as result have insured that their activities will continue. I'm not going to be the one to start an organization. But, I would suggest that all of us keep in mind what this future organization should look like and be ready to provide some input when the time comes. The time will come, as it has with every other outdoor activity I can think of. Now can we all shake virtual hands and be friends and fellow geocachers. Good times are still here and more good times are to be had. (by the way Hawk-eye, I'm not about to leave. Shoot, I just paid $30 to support Jeremy, why leave now? Some day I'd like to meet you discuss some of our differences. Bet we have more in common that one might think. Maybe we could even swap a few geocaching lies eerr... ahhh ...stories. Until that day, keep the blood pressure down and continue the quest to find that tupper box.)

quote:Originally posted by Team CacheCows of Wisconsin: Jeremy and geocaching.com are not GEOCACHING. You are right there. quote:lay off the crap about how one person (Jeremy) is deciding for the whole community. If you don't like the policies and practices of this site, then by all means _LEAVE, PLEASE!_ Wow! another you don't agree with me get out. quote:and voting like any other non-profit organization. quote:Neither geocaching.com, nor the sport/activity/hobby of geocaching are non-profit organizations, so your statement make no sense at all. There's abosoutly no reason that there for there to not hava a nonprofit geocaching organization. There are lots and lots of nonprofit groups form for more reasons than you or I can think of. quote:Why bother starting your own site when alternatives already exist. Maybe a nonprofit organization would could insure that Jeremy and this site could continue. A nonprofit organization has the ability, if they have the funds, to hire people the same as any business. Jeremy could be paid in an agreed upon manner. Maybe this needs a little further examination. A nonprofit organization with dues and other types of fund raising could insure a long life of geocaching.com. A nation wide clean up of public parks or some such thing to bring positive publicity thus possibly enabling more access to areas to place caches. An action groups to communicate with all grovernment issues as they apply to geocaching. Since this has been suggested once here, it's only a matter of time until somebody organizes geocaching (under some other name) or we organize it under the geocaching name with Jeremy's permission to use the name.

quote:Originally posted by Team CacheCows of Wisconsin: Jeremy and geocaching.com are not GEOCACHING. You are right there. quote:lay off the crap about how one person (Jeremy) is deciding for the whole community. If you don't like the policies and practices of this site, then by all means _LEAVE, PLEASE!_ Wow! another you don't agree with me get out. quote:and voting like any other non-profit organization. quote:Neither geocaching.com, nor the sport/activity/hobby of geocaching are non-profit organizations, so your statement make no sense at all. There's abosoutly no reason that there for there to not hava a nonprofit geocaching organization. There are lots and lots of nonprofit groups form for more reasons than you or I can think of. quote:Why bother starting your own site when alternatives already exist. Maybe a nonprofit organization would could insure that Jeremy and this site could continue. A nonprofit organization has the ability, if they have the funds, to hire people the same as any business. Jeremy could be paid in an agreed upon manner. Maybe this needs a little further examination. A nonprofit organization with dues and other types of fund raising could insure a long life of geocaching.com. A nation wide clean up of public parks or some such thing to bring positive publicity thus possibly enabling more access to areas to place caches. An action groups to communicate with all grovernment issues as they apply to geocaching. Since this has been suggested once here, it's only a matter of time until somebody organizes geocaching (under some other name) or we organize it under the geocaching name with Jeremy's permission to use the name.

quote:Thanks ... we appreciate that ... and if you really want to teach us a lesson ... boycott the forums too ... ooohhhh ... http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/348_1002.gif Gee Hawk-eye, I'm so sorry that I happen to disagree with one of your many opinions. I guess that anybody that disagrees with you should just stay away from geocaching and it's forums. Will your high and mightyness accept my appologies? [This message was edited by Byron & Anne on March 14, 2002 at 07:38 PM.]

"Who is the Elitist?" As far as I'm concerned the elitist are those that change there caches to "members only" caches. I paid my $30 because I wish to support goecaching.com. It's been a lot of fun and got me into places and situations I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. If I was to come into the game at this time I might have a little problem getting involved if I saw too many of the "members only" caches and would be required to spend $30 just to get into it. I guess I don't really understand the thinking that would want to create a "members only" cache since the only differce between a memeber and nonmember is a $30 fee. Therefore the only reason I can see for "members only" caches is to keep nonmembers out. Now you tell me if that's an elitist position or not. One cache that was recently changed to a "member only" cache had been visited by a group of boy scouts. Those scouts might not have made the climb and visited if the situation was as it is now. That would be a loss to us and them. Furthmore what are we telling the world with this "members only" cache stuff? OK OK I'll shut up now. I've paid and I'll boycott "members only" caches.

You can also save a JPG file with a higher compression. Between makeing a picture a little smaller and higher JPG compression you should be able to get most pictures in 50-70K area. My $.025 worth. (inflation you know)

After thinking about this whole thing of "members only" caches I have figured out what my actions will be. At first I thought I'd make sure I never went after a "members only" cache. But that would be hurting myself. So I'll go after "members only" caches, but nobody will ever know, but me, that I was there. I simply will not log it either on the web or in the log book. Now mr. cache owner try to figure out how many visits you've had and by whom.....

It appears to me that there's a bunch elitests out there. Some caches that have very little visitors now will have even less due to this ELITEST attitude. I am willing and happy to help Jeremy defray costs and if he makes a buck or two all the better. But I see memembers only caches as "you too must pay to play". Very neighborly and friendly of you all. I was planning on doing an event this summer, can I "uninvite" those that have "members only caches"?