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LongDogs

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Posts posted by LongDogs

  1. Ok, if we really have to vote now,

    Informal: Leatherman #1 (and Sissy-n-CR #1a)

    Formal: Gustaf #5 and MountainMudBug #2/3/4

     

    Althought I'd love to see the informal logo incorporated into a formal one before we decide.

     

    I consider Sissy-n-CR #1a (the left one) to be the same as Leatherman #1, just formalized. Either is recognizable as the same logo.

     

    MountainMudBug #2,#3, and #4 are really the same one, with just variations in the coloring.

     

    Gustaf #5 still appeals to me too, especially when used on a large medium.

     

    Groover #2 to #4 also have potential, as they look very customizable.

  2. Well, the coin issue started it all, but what it really brought to light is that there wasn't really a logo for geocaching itself. We've all just been using (or abusing) the Groundspeak logo as the geocaching logo.

     

    They've gladly tolerated that up to a point, but it seems to have reached a point that they risk losing their trademark due to derivative designs and unlicensed sales.

     

    The reason coins really brought it to light, is that the cost of producing coins is so high (initial die costs of $250 to $800, plus a minimum quantity of 100 or so at $2 to $4 each, or less for 250 or more) that generally anyone who does so must share the expense (and coins) with others. But having a couple hundred coins minted and "sharing the expense" by keeping 25 or 50 or so, and selling the rest violates the trademark license, as it is a commercial use. Plus most people wanted to customize the logo to reflect their team or state, etc., which creates a derivative, which also risks the trademark.

     

    In light of that, several people thought there should be a icon/token/symbol/logo for the sport that wasn't a trademark for anyone. That would provide a recognized basic logo that could be customized for teams, states, etc., without any legal encumbrances.

     

    There has been some us-and-them type postings, but for the most part, I think the idea is they would co-exist peacefully. On my desk right in front of me is a drink cup with the mcdonalds logo and the Coca-Cola logo one above the other. McDonalds is the host, coke is the product. They work together.

     

    I'd love to see a geocoin with the public domain logo on one side, and the Groundspeak logo on the other. I don't see how anyone could object if Groundspeak decided to mint and sell those coins. Likewise, however, the new logo would allow you to customize it into a team logo and have this printed or minted.

  3. Gustaf, if your out there, I'd love to see a version of your logo with the globe and star replaced by the XG logo, as well as one with the XG logo over the globe, instead of the star.

     

    The XG is a simple design, that might turn out to be a unifying element across several more complex designs. I think Sissy-n-CR's "cleaned up" version would be the best choice for adding to the Gustaf logo.

  4. brdad, I've also saved a copy of your page.

     

    However, to really use the logos, for example on a hat or T-shirt, you are going to need a much larger original image, or ideally the original artwork in eps or other portable line art format, as well as the original native format the original designer used.

     

    If fact, I think even for etching a die, they want line art. (eps works, I think.) Otherwise, they have an art charge for duplicating the design on their system. In fact, that goes for pretty much any use, from patch making machines, to t-shirt silkscreeners.

  5. I've been following the other thread and missed the creation of this one.

     

    bigredmed, as much as I'd like the credit, I didn't submit a G, solid or otherwise. I think you're talking about Leatherman's #1, which I said looked good.

     

    One question was about how well some of them would scale and how they'd look small. Here's some samples: (And my favs, in no particular order.)

    geol1_tiny.jpggeolog3e_tiny.jpgworldblue_tiny.jpglogo2_small_tiny.jpg

    and for reference

    GEOlogobw_tiny.jpg

  6. Seriously, I think "The Language of Location" is probably a Groundspeak trademark. icon_eek.gif Isn't it their company motto or slogan, or something?

     

    Even if it isn't trademarked, it seems it would be inappropriate (at best) to use their phrase without licensing their logo.

  7. No problem. I'd love to have a "basic" and "complex" design (for lack of better terms) so that each could be used as best fits the situation and medium.

     

    Not uncommon. If you think about it, Groundspeak has four variations. Just the little guy, the guy and the circle, the 4-square guy on colored background, and the full t-shirt version.

     

    But even that doesn't imply that they all have to be variations on the same basic design.

  8. quote:
    glad long dogs thinks the idea is not totally devoid of merit.

     

    I never meant to imply that. My earlier comment (the one I think you're referring to) was over the argument regarding the trademark of the word geocaching and just to say that I think there is room in the geocaching world for both the Groundspeak logo, and the geocaching community logo. And as many personalized custom variations as people can come up with of that logo (although I'd hope to at least keep it recognizable.)

  9. After a 2nd look, I like the solid one better than the dotted lines too. (Especially if thinking of having to draw it myself.) icon_smile.gif

     

    I expect we will eventually want to do a poll and pick a winner, even though I'd hope everyone would "accept" or "recognize" the top few.

     

    You can't force anybody to choose a certain one, and I'd never expect a total concensus. icon_eek.gif There are just too many uses that could be made of the all the good ones. icon_wink.gif

     

    If you take away the colored squares, the Groundspeak logo isn't terribly different from this one. (Did I say that out loud?) Still, I would hope it is unique enough. They both have circular tracks and an X to mark the spot, and are bold lines. That is really where the similarity ends. What does everyone else think?

  10. quote:
    Originally posted by The Intrepid Lemmings:

    I suppose having two 'approved' ones is out of the question? I understand the need for a simple logo - it's just that the ones that Gustav has produced have so much versatility, and are so visually appealing - I know I'd really like Gustav's on a coin, or a hat - but I agree, I'd rather not have to draw it myself.

    Beta


     

    I think a "basic" and "complex" logo is a great idea. In fact, I think we sould keep a clip-art repository of all the suggestions.

     

    While I REALLY like gustaf's # 5. However you could replace the globe and star with one of Leatherman's logos. (I think I like Leatherman # 2, but you could keep both as variations of the standard, since they are so close.)

  11. quote:
    Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

    What part of don't worry about it confuses you? We're not pursuing the trademark, so use it at will. We registered it so no one else had the opportunity to claim it. Call off the dogs.


     

    Jeremy's right. This is getting a little out of hand. They aren't out to get anyone, and are just trying to do what they can to keep their corp logo from becoming public domain. I seriously doubt they'd do anything to hurt geocaching or the geocaching community.

     

    Their offer to produce a shared die (with or without a charge) is a generous one.

     

    I still want to have an unencumbered public domain logo/icon for geocaching, but that doesn't need to de-value or marginalize the Groundspeak icon. It is still the official icon of Groundspeak and the geocaching.com web site.

     

    For many it will still be worthwhile to license the Groundspeak logo. I can see many cases where you would want to use both of them together, with the pristine Groundspeak logo and a customized version of the community logo for your area, team, etc. I'd be happy to see coins with the Groundspeak logo on one side, and a personalized community logo on the other. (Or even the generic community logo, for that matter.)

  12. quote:
    Originally posted by The Intrepid Lemmings:

    - I was going to suggest that it would be simplest to focus on just the black and white version - since people will color it in to suit their wishes - but maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a consensus on preferred colors - to make it feel more of a 'team' patch - then people can change at will - but default colors (or black and white) are in place?


     

    I think "official" design colors should exist, just to make it more consistently recognizable when rendered in color.

     

    Also, coins can have colored spaces in them for an extra charge. Take a look at the Team FISUR or Moun10bike coins.

  13. Any suggestions/preferences on the colors used?

     

    It looks like gustaf followed the colors I used in my colored-up version, but those were entirely arbitrary, with no thought whatsoever put into the color choices. icon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif

     

    I can't believe nobody had better suggestions. icon_eek.gif

  14. quote:
    Originally posted by The Intrepid Lemmings:

    IF we were to choose something like Gustav's original design - could there not be *ahem* 'derivative' designs as spin offs? For example - I like the early designs because they are so clean lined - but I can see the appeal of having a cute little thumbtack on it too - couldn't BOTH be available, once the original selection was made?


     

    In fact that is exactly the idea. The logo can be modified to suit the medium by which it will be rendered (carved wood, hot-iron brand, crochet, silkscreen, coin die, resin mold, etc.)

    as well as being customizable by adding your own icons, totems, mottos, etc. Of course, in the case of a coin, there is always the other face for customization. It may be that several of us could go in together to have a die face made for the "back" of the coin with a common logo, and then we could get coins for only the cost of the custom front-face. Or perhaps we'll go even further and design both faces and produce a generic coin we could all go in together on. (Hey, if we order over 500, then are less than $2 each, after die cost.)

     

    Perhaps, if we all work together, we could make this one face, and the Groundspeak logo die the other face.

     

    I don't think anybody is 100% sure where we are going with this, but the idea is to have a common base work and logo we can all build upon.

     

    One other thing that is sure, is that when we are done, we'll all have a large base of public domain geocaching clip-art to draw from.

  15. Hmmm... Somehow I missed this one. It is a good idea too. It would make a good reverse face.

     

    usatenn2.jpg

     

    Here is Gustaf's logo colored in, just for effect.

    Since the gif was dithered, rather than just black & white, it didn't turn out too good, but I just wanted an idea of what it might look like.

     

    geologo3c.gif

     

    I didn't really give much thought to the colors, and primary colors might be better than pastel, but I just wanted to see what it would look like with color. Maybe Gustaf can put up a colorized version...

  16. Actually I think the serif font or a mild-serif font would be ok. Take out a US penny, and if you look closely, you'll notice that on the back the words "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" around the top, and very tiny "E. PLURIBUS UNUM" below it are all serif fonts.

     

    I suppose if we're worried, "GPS Stash Hunt" might be even safer than Geocaching.

  17. quote:
    I really like the one Gustaf came up with (not that my opinion counts for much).

     

    geologo3.gif


     

    I have to agree, that one is really starting to take shape and looks pretty good.

     

    The only thing I'd change is I think I'd rather it just say "geocaching" than "geocaching commumity".

  18. I too have to admit that it seems to me that any design that incorporates the Groundspeak logo in any creative way would really be a derivitive work.

     

    Sounds like the best bet all around would be to see if we could use the "shared" die and design our own mating die for the other face, and have only that side of the coin be unique.

     

    Will you provide information on the die, availability, and costs, or name of the mint used, etc.?

  19. Ok, I told myself I'd stay out of this and stop posting about it, especially since I have no immediate plans to produce anything.

     

    However, I wanted to ask, just to clarify, that the logo can be incorporated into a design as long as the original logo remains pristine, right?

     

    So you could have a 4-quad design if you want, with a small version of the Groundspeak logo in one quad, or with the logo small in the center and your custom stuff all around it, right? Or is that really a derivitive work also?

     

    I'm just trying to fully understand the situation, and not jump to any false conclusions.

  20. quote:
    You're right. You can't. So are you indicating that it is in some way my fault?

     

    As for your #1, I'm not sure where you got your information. Did a government official leak that it won't be licensed?


     

    Wasn't trying to fault anyone. I, and I hope everyone here, greatly appreciates everything you do for the geocaching community and through the geocaching.com site. I was just stating what I understood to be the case from reading the forums. Also, on the 2nd remark, it is my understanding that a customized (ie derivitive work) version of the logo cannot be licensed. That is what I was referencing there.

     

    [This message was edited by LongDogs on October 06, 2002 at 09:50 PM.]

     

    [This message was edited by LongDogs on October 06, 2002 at 09:50 PM.]

  21. quote:
    Just a thought, but it seems that most of these designs are using the 4 box logo as a start. Why not use a grid pattern, or a compass rose, or something else as a base? Shouldn't it be completely original?


     

    I agree that it should be original. That is part of why I was suggesting the compass rose. I also suggested a "wireframe" earth of just lat-long lines as a background or element, but don't have enough talent or tools to come up with that.

     

    All things said, I don't want to sound opposed to Groundspeak, or like I want to harm them in any way. I would, however, like to see somebody able to make and sell geocoins that are at least somehow connected to the sport/game/community.

     

    I'd love to see what Groundspeak is coming up with, and will not likely do anything until then. Still, a "public domain" logo seems apealing, should I every want to produce anything that would cost enough I'd need to sell some to recoup my expenses. (Team or localized hats, shirts, or geocoins, for example.) Around my area, I can't see any one person fronting the cost for something for everyone on the team or in the state, etc. without getting reimbursed.

     

    [This message was edited by LongDogs on October 06, 2002 at 09:45 PM.]

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