conradv

Well, that's your opinion, but I think it's kind of ironic that you put me in a "group" like that and then agree with me later in your post (at least partially). I don't "look down" upon anyone, and I stated that it is only my opinion. You seem to be the one passing judgement - "righteous beliefs"? lol Just because I don't agree with the way that some people want to interpret the game...

Fair enough. Why is it hogwash to discover coins at an event? I'm physically holding them and admiring them. It gets back to the original "intent" of geocaching, or more specifically, what I believe to be the intent of geocaching. Granted, I'm new at this, but I see the purpose to be this: Go out in the countryside and find hidden caches. Sign the log book. Take something and leave somthing ("nothing" is considered something: TNLN). If there is a TB, you can log it and move it to another cache. If you have a TB, you can leave it in the cache. Go online and log your finds on the cache's page. Do it again. So this is just my opinion, and others have the right to do what they want - just seems to me that it defeats the purpose of "finding" or "discovering" a TB.

It's interesting that people really do believe that they are not doing anything "wrong" by using sheets of numbers, or even doing mass "discovers" at events. People seem to be able to talk themselves into anything. Myself? I think that both practices are a bunch of hogwash, but that's just me.

lol - how does a cacher "find" a cache that they put out themselves? That's silly.

So what have you determined? What would be your recommendations?

I guess it all boils down to "What are the official GC.com rules pertaining to it?" I don't recall anything. It seems that everything is arbitray. As I see it, this is an open-ended game where people seem to do what they want if it suits themselves. For good or bad, that's the way it is. I side with the Cache Owner. It's THEIR CACHE. They put it out. If you don't like it, then DON'T LOG IT! It's that simple. All this nonsense about "rights".... Jeeze, it's a GAME for Christ's sake...

If the owner said that I had to log a certain way for it to count, I would do it. After all, it's their cache and their rules.

It's just been added on to my hiking here in north Idaho & western Montana. It's funny how many caches I was standing right next to over the last few years and had no idea that they were even there...

The Usual Suspects, I'd guess.

527.

12.1 Miles & 4000' elevation

31.4

FTF's up here in northern Idaho are a bit different a lot of the time. Many caches are on mountain peaks, or require a 25 mile drive up 4x4 roads, then a 3 mile hike, or all of the above. I don't know how long it'll take for my second cache Gemestelle to get a FTF - 5 mile round trip hike, 1/2 of it off trail, 2100' elevation gain, grizzlies spotted in the area.... lol

One place I'd never log a cache would be if it was on or near an electrical box. I really don't think that it's a good idea to encourage people to touch these - there's a WHOLE LOTTA electrical current right below your fingertips. A freak "short" (unlikely, but possible) to the lid of the box and "blammo".

You're right about the CITO - I was thinking more along the lines of beer bottles and candy bar wrappers. This is one of the reasons that I think that the FS should be able to require cachers to submit a form to them telling where (and what) the cache is. As it is now, there is kind of a "grey area" when it comes to our local Forest. This is one of the Ranger's first email to me when I contacted him about geocaching: My thought is: why not take the initiative with the Forest Service and establish some groundrules, rather than let uninformed people who work there make the decision for us?

That's just laughable - even playing a game with "no rules" as was posted... What a joke.

Yes, the winky guy ( ) indicated sarcasm. I didn't think about it until after I posted... lol But that was one of the things I've been trying to get across to the FS Archeologist. More trash is taken out on caching trips than brought in by far. I'll get him to come around one of these days...

Surely the locations of the caches are already obvious with the surrounding mass-destruction. Mass destruction? I'm not an old hand at this, but every cache I've found in the IPNF has been hidden totally from view. No trash, no trails other than the game trails or posted FS trails. Not sure how things go around your neck of the woods, but that sucks if caches are like that where you are. (If that was a sarcastic remark then oops.... )

I'm on very good terms with our local Forest Ranger (we're both on the Historical Society Board as well) and I've been talking to him about it. Our Forest (IPNF) does not have any policy regarding caches. The Forest Archeologist is less than pleased at the whole concept of caching, but I've been explaining to him the whole CITO idea. Now, I've been researching other National Forests and the ones that DO have an official policy usually have a "1 year limit" on caches, and they must be moved at least 1/2 mile after that time. That's a pretty interesting idea, but doesn't sound like much fun to have to take down a cache at the top of a 7000 foot mountain, move it, and continue to move it year after year. Plus, most caches in my area are specifically put up in special places, where if moved, they might as well be archived. Granted, some of these other Forests are a little less "remote" than ours, but I can see caches getting taken out by FS employees when they aren't moved after a year is up. I like the idea of submitting caches to the Ranger so that they know where they all are on the Forest. But I don't really like the idea of moving them every year.

Your Momma must be proud... My mama has a VCR from that riot. Guess the apple didn't fall too far from the tree. Nice to know that there are people like you out there geocaching.

Your Momma must be proud...

Whew! Good thing he had that warning! I'm sure I would have used it for evil.

We get those from time to time down here, and it always makes me wonder; Did the train sneak up on the guy? I've seen train close up. They make a lot of noise. Our place has tracks running between our house and the river. My brother and I've hunted all our lives on both sides of the tracks. We learned early that trains can indeed "sneak up on you". When the wind is right, a train can be 50 yards from you before you hear it...and it's usually coming at 60mph. I know a girl who has a problem hearing oncoming trains for some reason. No explanation as to why, selective deafness? All my senses are alert whenever I'm near a railroad track, including common sense. Even without putting your ear to the tracks (DUMB THING TO DO BY THE WAY), you can hear metallic noises of an oncoming train. I know what I've experienced, and when the wind is blowing right up the river (not just a slight breeze, but actually blowing), you cannot hear the train coming. It's not just me either, others I have taken hunting there tell me the same thing.

We get those from time to time down here, and it always makes me wonder; Did the train sneak up on the guy? I've seen train close up. They make a lot of noise. Our place has tracks running between our house and the river. My brother and I've hunted all our lives on both sides of the tracks. We learned early that trains can indeed "sneak up on you". When the wind is right, a train can be 50 yards from you before you hear it...and it's usually coming at 60mph.

Ah, I get it. But it still comes down to the same thing. There is a "physical" portion of Difficulty. It doesn't make sense to me to have a "physical" portion when you get to the cache. In my mind, when you "get to the cache", you have it in your hands.