jdoe01

Hey all, I'm a long time geocacher that has been out of the sport for some time now. For the last few years I have used a 60CSx and loved it for geocaching. I'm also a pilot, however, and in the process of acquiring a 496. Unfortunately, because of the price I'm also selling my 60CSx to help offset the cost. I'm wondering if I will be able to pick up right where I left off with the 496? Are there any other GCers out there that use the aviation models, and are there any serious disadvantages to using these models for geocaching? In general I always used the compass page to geocache with the 60CSx, and from the manual it appears as though this is still available on the aviation units. I've also read that it can support all the same custom waypoints, so I'm hoping it will still work well... Thanks for any input you can provide. All the best, James

Well, I really don't want to turn this into any form of argument, so please don't take offense, but consider an opposing viewpoint to your points: First, I agree that you would have to be "pretty stupid" if you see a brand new road and don't understand why it isn't on your map, but likewise you would also have to be pretty stupid if you couldn't figure out how to navigate from point A to point B using a paper map. Most people don't purchase GPS units for auto navigation in an effort to surpass limitations of their intelligence, they do so entirely for convenience. And a model loses some of that convenience if you are unable to route to a new area of town without pulling over and using a paper map or some other guide. It also depends a good deal on where you live. In some cities/areas, over the course of a few years maybe just a few extra roads get built, and some POI's change. In fast growing areas, however, you can have entire areas of the city that develop over a few years. For instance, I currently live in a fairly small (pop 100,000) town in Florida and about 30% of that population wouldn't be covered in CS < v7 since its built up over the past 3 years or so. While that percentage wouldn't be as high, even in big-fast growing metropolitans like Miami you have vast parts of the city that grow yearly - which might make a difference to a delivery person. Of course its still possible to find someone living in those parts if they don't exist on your GPS; I'm not contesting that, just that you've lost some value of your GPS by not being able to. Most importantly, I would agree with your argument (and the above analogy) entirely if the maps weren't a time based product. As you say, roads and POI's change often. What the bulk of your money goes to purchase (if the price of updates is any indication) is a snap shop of a "state" at a given time. The further you are from that state in time, the less value the product possesses. Someone who purchased CS7 the day it was released gained a far more valuable product then someone who purchases it today; and yet the price really hasn't changed virtually at all (you can find it new at about 75% of retail, the same as the day it was released). Finally, I'm not entirely sure that it is fair to blame a consumer for not daily reading the forums, or for not logging onto the Garmin website, navigating through the many pages to the City Navigator maps page, scouring the page only to notice the lack of a single 10 pixel by 10 pixel "Buy" button that they were probably never before aware existed anyway; only to discover that the maps Garmin says are available in every one of their pamphlets/boxes/manuals can't actually be purchased. Some people probably have more interesting lives than us ... =) And as for the toys thing, don't get me started. I've got a 60CSx on my lap that meant Ramen noodles straight for a month (and they get old after awhile, trust me!). I've definitely got my priorities straight, its just money can be a very limited resource for a Graduate student ... =) Best Regards,

Err, thats not really a fair analogy. That would be a good analogy had he purchased the 60CS and wanted a free upgrade to the 60CSx. The difference is that the mapping software is a required additional purchase to make a previous purchase (his GPS) functional in a way that Garmin advertised it to be. So, in essence, if he wants to use his GPS as a city navigation device (as Garmin advertised that it could be) without wasting warrantied days, he HAS to purchase the software now, even though Garmin no longer sells the previous software (v7) because it is at best outdated.

Glenn, I wouldn't worry about it all that much. At this point, it depends on who you ask. You wrote to the sales people ("sales@garmin.com"), and they along with the sales reps on the phone are all saying "No, you can't get a free update". However, if you write to cartography@garmin.com (the email the website tells you to contact regarding Navigator/Select sotware), they will say yes (at least that was my experience along with a few others) ... from the email response I got: "If you do find a brand new version of the software you can purchase it, install and unlock the maps and when our version 8 update is released later this summer you will qualify for a free update." My guess at this point is that from what others have said and my email responses, Garmin will probably do the right thing and give free or severly reduced updates to those of us who really didn't have much of a choice... And for certain I wouldn't worry about the sales reps say as they seem to all say something different ... =)

Yeah, I went ahead and ordered City Select v7 via the GPSDiscount link Onit posted above. I talked to Garmin first, and the lady said since Select is being phased out, that I will be eligible for whatever upgrades/updates a Navigator user with the same purchase dates etc would be eligible for. She said that I would *NOT* be eligible for the free upgrade since it has yet to be released... I don't see that I have much choice though. I purchased the GPS in large part because of two trips that I have coming up (both within the next month, and I don't travel all that often). The way I see it, either they will ship within the next month or so (and, if that is the case, I think I will be eligible for the free upgrade since as rswith says above, they usually predate the eligible announce date some) or they won't be shipping for a month or so anyway, in which case having the new version would be a relatively moot point since its past my travels... I guess it comes down to I can wait and have the newest version when I don't need it, or I can have an outdated version when I can use it. I still don't see how Garmin can officially have NO version currently recommended. Anyway, just a question as a matter of opinion, do you guys (and gals) think it would make more sense for a product like this to be subscription based? In other words, instead of waiting an entire year for a batch $75 update, would it not make more sense to pay $75/year and have updates sent out as soon as they have them? I suppose this would present some challenges, but it seems more logical for a time based product like this. Really by the time we actually get v8, parts of it will already be outdated .. =) PS. Also for some of you that have used these products for awhile, is there really that much updated between versions? I suppose for new developing neighborhoods there might be many updates, but overall does the POI database change all that much in a year?

Hi, thanks for the reply. I tried that a few days back and the lady told me they were no longer selling v7 because of the v8 release. She recommended that I look through their online retailers to see if I could find one that was still selling it. Ah, well thats a bit comforting to hear at least.

Anyone know of a reliable store that is still shipping Navigator North America v7? I have to leave town at the end of next week, and would really like to have some maps ... =) I've looked up about 5 or 6 online retailers and they all seem to have it either labeled discontinued or backordered. This includes GPSCity, GPSNow, Buy.com, .... Thanks for the help.

They updated their site today right after I called them. First I called Garmin to ask them what to do since they no longer carry v7. The lady I spoke to said that they were no longer selling v7 because v8 was soon to be released, but she had no idea when it would be released (in her words, in the next few months). The problem I see is that in the past (according to their website, I have no personal experience), it's usually a month and a half or so from the date software is released and the date it actually starts shipping. Although would they really stop selling the previous version if it were that far off? Anyway, I called up GPScity as I had a pre-order. The guy who answered said he would call Garmin and find out, and he called me back in about 10 minutes to say they would have it June 23. I told them to cancel my pre-order. Honestly since this is the third or fourth time I think they are just making dates up since they assume it will be released soon and since they are the only site offering it, kind of cornering the market on it at this point. Although I don't know that for sure. I wish I knew what to do, I have 3 trips coming up soon and no maps at all other than the basemap. And now its almost hard to find v7. Hurm....