M4RKO

You're right, it's not helpful. I'd delete it but its already been taken care of, so I'll repost my "rant" here: Wow a LARGE cache was force archived for a MICRO in a crack? That's sad.

I posted a note to the new cache because I just couldn't help myself. It'll probably be deleted but whatever, I don't Facebook.

I'm always on the lookout for places to visit, where caches are individually special, and more than just a +1. I'm completely with you on this, however we are becoming voices in the wilderness. My caches were once popular. Now most of them can go months between finds. ... Face it, geocaching has strayed far from its roots and we're dinosaurs. And you know what? I am OK being a dinosaur. I'm OK with only having my caches visited a few times a year by the most motivated cachers. It gives my hides a little (pardon the pun) cachet. Geocaching has all kinds of caches, from the grab-and-go to the long-hike ones. As long as TPTB leave me alone and let me hide my favorite kind, I won't try to get the kinds I don't like banned. But the minute somebody tells me to archive one of my caches because it isn't getting found enough (to someone else's satisfaction) then we are going to have a serious problem. I'd like to thank you, and cache owners like you. And my local geocaching community for NOT wanting to "recycle locations" because all the big number finders have found all the caches on the area. I'm new to geocaching, and I'm not in it for the numbers I'm in it to be taken to cool locations and see unique hides. A lot of the best caches I've found are older caches that have been around for years and that don't get found as frequently. I'm glad the COs didn't just archive them, that they maintain them and keep them alive for new geocachers to experience. That's part of my problem with this forced archival of what sounds like quality caches. Just because you've found it, you want to get rid of it so you can get a new smiley in the same location? Seems very selfish.

I am not from the area, but if I were, I would boycott the event and these caches on principle. The land manager may have the final say, but that doesn't make what she's doing right. It's sad how such a small amount of "power" can go to someone's head and lead them to abuse it. Several posters have pointed out that the "other side" of this story hasn't been told, that group's president or the land manager haven't come and stated their case so we don't really KNOW the whole situation....but what could they possibly say that would make this okay? I'm not at all surprised that they haven't made an appearance in this thread, because there's really no defense for how they handled this situation. If I lived in the area and was more directly affected by this, I probably would go over this ranger's head and alert whoever supervises her to how she is abusing her position and causing conflict that could negatively effect the park. Yes, there is the risk of "winning the battle and losing the war", but honestly, I'd rather lose the entire park than let a select few dictate what geocaches will be allowed there. Maybe that's selfish. But bowing down to this type of bullying out of fear doesn't seem right to me either. It almost feels like a mob shakedown, when they charge your for "protection" but they're the ones you need protecting from. Except there wasn't even the pretense of a choice in this situation, it was just "archive your cache, or I'll use my position to archive it for you."

I really think it's important to encourage geocachers to visit the forums, especially new geocachers. You learn a lot about what is considered to be good geocaching etiquette. For example, when I first started I was following the example of others before me with short logs and TFTC and what not. Then I came to the forum and realized that people used to write a lot more in the log books, and the one line username - date - tftc thing is a recent development and that most cache owners appreciate a longer log. Same goes for the online log, I learned that COs appreciate you telling them a little more than just TFTC, and although I never just posted TFTC, I have made a conscious effort to write more interesting logs. My boyfriend and I recently found a cache but could not open it. Because our goal was to find a cache, he thought we should be able to claim it as a find. But because I've read on the forums that some people DON'T consider it a find until they've signed the log, I don't want to claim it until we can get it open and sign the physical log. I learned that most TB owners don't really care for a lot of "visit" logs unless accompanied by photos and stories. I also learned the importance of keeping TB's tracking numbers out of logs and photos. I'm sure I could go on, but the point is I learned a LOT just by reading a few threads on the forums. It really helps to see what others think about different practices or games within the game. And I'm sure others would benefit as well. Maybe people who claim Finds on caches they didn't actually find wouldn't do it as often if they saw the Found It = Did Not Find It thread. Maybe there would be less throwdown containers if people read through threads where owners complain about people throwing down their trash when a perfectly good cache was still right there. I think one way to encourage people to visit the forums would be through the geocaching newsletter email that is sent out. Just like it links to recently published caches and upcoming events, it could have a little section where it links to a few forum discussions, like the Found it = DNF it thread, or the What Irks You thread. I also think it would help more people find the forums if there was something like the forums homepage "recently added" box on the actual geocaching homepage.

Is this really the best thing to do? Throwing away someone's trackable just seems wrong to me. I've seen another thread where someone brought up this topic (a trackable with numerous clones in circulation at the same time), and they said they just left it in the cache where they found it, they didn't move it or discover it or anything. I feel like that would have been a better choice...I mean I've seen it stressed all over the forum that TB's are someone else's property....so wouldn't that mean you just threw away someone else's property? I understand that it's against the rules or policy or whatever, but if Groundspeak isn't willing to do anything about it, is it right for us to take it upon ourselves to dispose of someone else's TB? Seems like a dangerous president to set, because I've seen people have issues with TB's that represent/are associated with things that they don't approve of, or maybe that they just don't think should be included in geocaching; like a trackable dog tag attached to a mini copy of the Bible, or a rosary (I actually recently picked up a Buddhist rosary TB), or things of that ilk that are likely to cause controversy. I'd hate for people to just start throwing away any TB they didn't approve of... But I'll admit I'm still learning, so I figured I'd ask...is it okay to throw someone else's TB away, in this situation or any other?

If a cache needs maintenance, does another cacher placing a throwdown container count as maintenance?

I recently went to visit my family in California, and while I was there I introduced my two nieces (8 and 4) to geocaching. They had a blast and love "finding treasures". It was a little more difficult to find regular-large sized containers, because it seemed like micros dominated the area. So we had to venture a little further from home to find good sized caches that the kids would actually be interested in and able to find themselves. We went for what was supposed to be a regular sized cache, and instead found a green pill bottle. This was after we had already found a few ammo cans and larger caches, so my niece was disappointed that THIS was the "treasure". I was confused, because I made sure to read the last couple of logs of all the caches before I took them out...well, apparently I should have read further back. There were 3 DNFs, one said: This cache is unfortunately gone I think.....my uncle took me here because he has found it in the past. The rocks are scattered around and there is no container in sight Sorry!! THEN, there's this found it log: Stopped by here with (another cacher) after Bike-N-Caching in Elsmere Canyon today. (He) had previously found this one but I couldn't locate it. He told me where it was supposed to be but it was obviously not there. We had some supplies so we set a replacement. Cache is in good condition at this time. So, the exact same situation as a previous cacher who logged a DNF (being there with someone who found it before and can confirm it's missing). And rather than just post a needs maintenance log, this person tosses down a crappy green pill bottle as a replacement and claims the find. So the subsequent Found It logs that I read and took to mean that the cache was still there are of people finding the throw down. This person could have at LEAST posted a NM log AFTER their bogus found it log, so that the owner would know the container needs to be replaced. And the log makes no indication that they got the owners approval to throw their trash down as a replacement. I wasn't even sure whether or not I should let my niece claim it as a find since it's not the actual cache. If I had been caching as myself I would NOT have claimed it. But I figured I don't have to hold a 4 year old to the same standards and it's not her fault someone left a micro sized throw down to replace a regular sized cache. What irritated me the most is that this person has a large find count, close to 5000 finds. And I saw this same person claim a find on a night cache that was no longer there either. The owner approved it based on coordinates, so whatever, if that's how they like to play that's on them. But the next log was from someone this person took to the night cache and showed the spot to...still no cache there I assume because the owner never performed maintenance...and THAT person claimed a find as well. I just don't get logging that you FOUND a cache that's not there. It's not "Found the general vicinity of where the cache is supposed to be" it's "Found IT" IT being the cache. GRRRRRRR. I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't already been said. Just frustrated and needed somewhere to vent. It's things like this that really drive home that someone else's numbers don't mean jack. Just because someone has a huge find count doesn't make them a better/more considerate cacher or mean that they follow the "rules" or caching etiquette.

I recently moved to Austin, TX from California and because I don't know anything about the area I started exploring by googling for fun places to visit. I was on AustinExplorer.com, and while looking at the categories I saw one called Geocaching. I'd never heard of it, so I clicked it. It has some stats on local geocachers and informational links. So I looked into it more, discovered that it's basically GPS treasure hunting, and I knew right away I wanted to try it. I have discovered a lot of really interesting places that I never would have found if it weren't for the geocaches I was hunting; it has been a very fun way to become more familiar with my new home.

I think so too! And really easy to make, all of those above I just followed a youtube tutorial to make. The hardest part is folding all those triangles, and that's more tedious than difficult. That's an awesome idea! I'd really love to do that. I haven't been to any events yet, and the ones I've seen near me usually seem like meet ups at a local food joint, so those probably don't have raffles...but if I ever go to one I will have to bring a piece of 3D origami along just in case.

I emailed the owners of the TBs I was originally talking about right away...and since then I have seen several more TBs with their tracking numbers displayed in the gallery, and I always email the owners...but not one has gotten back to me. Or fixed their gallery. So I guess I should just let it go and whatever happens to their TB happens...? I feel bad, but it's slightly irritating that they don't seem to care.

Thank you all for the replies, and I believe I will take your advice and NOT make TBs out of 3D origami. But I WILL leave them as swag, just need to find some small boxes that they'd fit in...

I love 3d origami, and originally I was just thinking about making some pieces to leave as swag, because I think it's something I'D love to find, and it's not really expensive because it's just paper. Here's an image just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. If you google image search it, you'll find tons more. (Note: I probably wouldn't make a TB out of a swan because the neck is probably too delicate for rough handling, but maybe still leave it as swag somewhere...) My boyfriend suggested I make a TB out of a piece of 3d origami, which I think is an awesome idea, but I'm not sure if it'd really work out. It'd be perfect in the sense of "never release a TB you're not willing to lose" because if I lost it I could easily make another, and like I said, it's just paper. But that right there is also my main concern -- it's just paper. I do coat them with a clear glue/sealant, which makes them a lot sturdier and you can drop them and they'll stay together, but I don't think it makes them completely waterproof. So maybe I'd have to put it in a plastic baggie...? So, like the thread title says, do you think this would work as a TB? Or should I just stick to the idea of leaving them as swag? Any suggestions?

Is there somewhere that we can report this when we see it? Or should we just email the TB owner? I thought I had one, just realize I have two, TBs that have their tracking number displayed on the page. One has been virtually logged a few times, the other not...I just don't want them to get grabbed from my hands before I can leave them in a cache, or locked.

Lol I think that's awesome of you, I love finding trackables and I really appreciate that people continue to send them out, even though so many go missing. Maybe you can put all of the trackables you're releasing in a separate container within the cache, and request that someone only take one of them if they are leaving another trackable. Because they are yours, I don't think there would be anything wrong with that...but you would probably have to check on the cache to make sure other people's TBs weren't getting placed in that container and thereby getting "stuck" in your cache. Just an idea, I don't want you to think I'm trying to discourage you, because like I said, I think what you're doing is awesome. Edit: spelling AGAIN!

Why does that matter? I knew after my very FIRST geocache that I was obsessed...I just had to wait until my birthday to get my Premium Membership.

From what I've read on the forums, that last part is a big no-no. Because trackables aren't swag, you can't require people to leave one if they take one. I read in another thread that TB Motels that do this are considered "TB prisons" and that some members will perform raids to "free the prisoners". Maybe it's different because you are starting a bunch of trackables of your own...but once other peoples TBs are left in your cache, they might not appreciate their bug being stuck in your cache until someone can trade it out. Edit for spelling

I know this is a very old thread, but I have a question that is somewhat along these lines, so I thought I'd just resurrect this thread rather than start a new one. We recently visited a TB Motel cache, and the log book was formatted for you to sign your user name, list the TBs tracking number, and log whether it was checking in or out. The owner of this cache seems to be very committed to the TBs that pass through it, taking time to discover, photograph and re-release all the TBs -- which I think is awesome of the CO because a lot of times the pics they upload are the first pics of the TB uploaded in a long time (or EVER). In no way do I think this person has any bad intentions, BUT...I felt a little unsure if I was doing the right thing by writing the tracking numbers in the log, because then anyone else who finds the cache can see the numbers of TBs they haven't physically seen. So I searched the forum to see if I could find anything about this kind of situation, and I found THIS thread, which made me even more worried that I had maybe made a mistake by writing those numbers in the log, because it seems like I was creating one of these lists...not that I think that is the COs intent, but someone with less scruples would be able to use this cache log to do exactly what this thread is talking about. This is the first time I've seen a log like this, maybe it is more common than I realize and not a big deal. I just want to know for future reference. I'd hate to indirectly help someone cheat or cause someone's trackable to be locked.

I've seen you reference the same situation (someone picking up a TB and keeping it with them for months and having it visit every cache they find) several times, and I think that is obviously not what any TB owner wants. To me that's just common sense and I have no idea why anyone would think it's okay to just hijack someone's bug like that. I'm talking more about a situation like, if you have a TB for 2-3 weeks, and you have a destination cache in mind that fits its mission, but you visit other caches in between picking it up and dropping it off. I felt bad for keeping a geocoin longer than I had intended, so I figured the least I could do is make sure to log the mileage it traveled with me, because it was with me and it did visit those caches. After visiting the forums and reading how much some TB owners hate visit logs, I felt bad for doing it. And I can see where they're coming from, page after page of visit logs without pictures aren't interesting, and in the future, if I have a TB visit a cache I will definitely take pics and upload them so the owner doesn't think I'm just lying.

Does anyone who doesn't care for visit logs mention that on their TB's page? I think it would be helpful...I'm sure not everyone would listen, but I know I didn't realize so many people didn't care for visit logs until I came on the forums and read some posts about it.

I haven't been around very long, but I definitely have noticed that whenever someone makes a thread to gripe about a cache/cacher, even if they don't name names, someone reading the thread does the digging and then everyone knows exactly who is being discussed. Which I don't really think is that surprising, given human nature, and how easy it is to click and get the info... I see what you mean, and that's why I would not want to be the one to have told the person...but at the same time, don't they have a right to know they're being discussed? How can they make things right, or learn from a mistake, if everyone just wants to talk about them and not let them in on it? If it were me, I'd want to know if I were doing something that wasn't kosher. Especially since I'm new. I've already learned a few things from reading posts here on the forum, but if I made some caching faux pas and everyone was talking about it, I'd like to be given the chance to make it right.

I wish the other half of my "we" would help research interesting caches! He just leaves that to me and asks where we're going. He says I'm better at it...which we all know is code for "I don't wanna do it". I've found some good micros, but I usually like to try for larger sizes. I think it's harder to hide a bigger container (well), and I like to see what people leave for trade. And I like the places they take me. A lot of the micros I've found were just on a street corner, with nothing special around. Although there is one series that takes you to Moontowers that I enjoyed....maybe I'll get more into micros as I get more experience and more into my numbers, but for now, I like the caches that take me on a hike over the hills and through the woods. I think it's better to not hide anything than to hide a cache and have it eventually become litter because you don't have the time for the upkeep. I am amazed at the amount of time and effort some of my local cachers put into maintaining their caches (I'm talking about you Indigo Parrish, should you ever read this lol).

I think it's silly to get mad at someone for pointing out the existence of this thread to the person who is sort of the TOPIC of this thread. If you didn't want them knowing about your feelings, you shouldn't have posted them on a public forum. You start this thread, turn people against this guy, then wonder why someone would act on it. If you didn't want him called out, you shouldn't have called him to everyone's attention.

You're an awesome Mom! I wish geocaching was around when I was younger. Your son will really appreciate what you've done for him. At the very least, if I can think of nothing else when logging my finds, I will leave info about the current condition of the cache and paper log. Sometimes that can be the most interesting kind of log for a CO! ;-) I think that may be an awesome dad you're talking to, lol, just based on the post...but I totally agree, I wish this had been around when I was a kid. I'd have LOVED it. I DO love it...guess I haven't changed too much. Do you think you might be trivialising the enjoyment CO's get from logs on their caches because you are yet to invest time and effort in hiding any? No. I do not feel this is the case. I do log a good post if it is interesting. IMO the true problem lies with the standard blah hides that take no more time or effort than someone throwing a pill bottle into the woods. There are just too many of these. On the other side this makes the special ones that much more special. If it is that important send the poster a message asking them if they enjoyed the find or not. you may get a new friend out of it. Even if it seems like a blah hide, I'm pretty sure it takes more time and effort than that...just to get the cache approved and published. I don't know what exactly goes into having to hide a cache, because I have not hidden any myself. But even if a cache isn't the best, I think hiders deserve kudos for the effort. Because without hiders, there would be nothing for us to find! I don't know how you find the caches you go hunting for, if you just find them on the fly while you're out, but maybe you should try looking them up at home and finding good quality caches that you would like to find, and adding them to your watchlist. The first time we went geocaching, I just used the app to find one nearby. It was a pretty sneaky hide, but it didn't really require much hiking or take me any place special. So I started looking them up online first, and reading other people's comments, and looking at how many favorite points the cache has. This has led me to some awesome quality caches, great hikes through places I've never been, tricky hides, etc. This is just a suggestion, maybe you already do this and your area is just full of "the standard blah hides." But I'm sure there are some good ones out there, and I'm sure you'll find them eventually

You can do whatever you want with your trackables, make them exclusively for Premium Members or don't, no skin off my back. But I think it would be wrong of you, or anyone else, to take trackables from regular caches and specifically move them to only Premium Member caches, because as I said, you're taking them out of circulation for the rest of us. And just because you don't think the rest of us deserve to see your trackables, doesn't mean the person who released that trackable feels the same. I'm not saying trackables should NEVER visit Premium Member Only caches. But I think it would be wrong of a group of Premium Members to conspire to keep all the trackables in an area in the Premium Members Only caches. It's not your place to decide all Basic Members can't be trusted with trackables. And as for your last line, about marbles, toy soldiers, trash and gum wrappers (aren't those last two the same thing? O.o)...are Premium Member caches full of gold? lol, is there really a better quality of TRINKETS in your uber special caches? For the record, I've seen some pretty cool trade items, kids toys, cool rocks, sea shells, pathtags, geocoins and trackables. I don't know who "the rest of you that don't seem to care" is (are?) exactly...but I think people who take the time to improve caches for everyone else to enjoy, following that whole "leave the cache better than you found it" philosophy, obviously do care. More so than someone who wants to take their ball and leave.