Scratch Ankle

I don't have but one TB that is currently out. It got reported as missing but later reappeared taken from the cache that it was verified missing from. It disappeared again a few months ago. I figure lost TBs are the cost of playing the game. If the cost is too high, don't play. I do not ascribe to the theory that thieves get into geocaching just to steal trinkets like my $5 TB. There are more lucrative targets. That said, sure people do take things because they are interesting even though they know they shouldn't. They let their kids take that interesting TB because they don't want to put up with the kid screaming because they won't let them keep it. However, there is an old saying about not ascribing to malice that which can be more easily be explained by stupidity. Include ignorance (not knowing something as opposed to refusing to know something), laziness, and carelessness with that. Some people do not know how to deal with TBs and either don't bother to find out or don't understand it when they do try. For example, the son of a friend visiting here from out of state said he had found a cache a couple years ago and took it to research what it was. He "understood" from his research that he was supposed to move the cache to a new place. Then he couldn't figure out how he was supposed to record having done so and quit worrying about geocaching. Then there is laziness and carelessness where the TB gets misplaced or lost. My family is guilty of laziness and carelessness. My son and I found and took two TBs from one cache. He had just found a real job -- finally -- in a city a couple of hours away and planned on releasing it there. In dealing with the new job and relocation he never got around to even record finding the cache mjuch less the TB which was a new experience for him. About 6 weeks later I found out and grabbed it from him. I posted the circumstances and apologized and promised that I would release it soon. However, when I went to release it at a cache I dropped it and it fell down between my seat and the console. I couldn't reach it with anything I had with me so went home. I then couldn't see the TB at all and spent a long time searching and could not locate it. I did this several times over the next month and finally decided I was going to have to offer to replace it for the owner and happened to drop something. When I reached for it I put my hand right on the TB. Also, caches get lost and any bugs then "disappear". No malice involved -- see the post below this one titled "found an old cache with a bug".

That's the right attitude -- losing a TB is the cost of playing the game. Lots of reasons they don't show up in inventory. Unfortunately, my son and I were responsible for one of them. We found a cache with 3 TBs that were placed by the same person and we each took one. I dropped mine off and about a month and a half later found that not had my son not dropped his. He hadn't even logged the find and the grab. He had started a new job in a distant city and hadn't had time to mess with it. So I grabbed it and explained the situation in my log and promised to drop it in a cold weather active cache. A couple weeks later I went to do so but when I got the TB out of the console I dropped it and it fell to place where the seat belt mounts to the floor. I could touch it but not retrieve it. I gave up and figured I would get it at home with some tools. Could not find it. I spent a long time several times hunting for it and never could spot it. About the time I decided I was going to be offering a replacement I dropped something and when I reached down to get it, there was the TB in plain sight. Best I can figure I must have got enough purchase on it to flip it up (and not realize it) and it got up in the seat for a spell. Anyway, it was lost in my possession for about 6 weeks and an equal amount of time in my son's.

I would think that you would have to be connected in order to get the information. You do not have the program and all the data files on your tablet to create that information. Essentially what you do when you use a mapping program is you contact that web site and ask it to send you the information which it does pretty much instantaneously. Basically it's a fancy version of calling a business and asking them for directions to their business from the location you give them on the phone but you have to have a phone in order to do that. Turn by turn downloaded before going off line might work but that's not any different than printing out the turn by turn instructions you get from Google maps. And if there is no connection the tablet doesn't know where you are short of having its own GPS unit capabilities separate from wifi/cell phone connections. Unless I don't know what I'm talking about and my wife tells me that's often the case. I don't use a tablet or smart phone so I may well not know what I'm talking about.

I'm of the school of wanting my bug to go to a specific place (or places) and the 156 visiting logs to all the local caches are an annoyance to me. So there are at least two schools of thought on the subject. Probably a lot more. I look at the goal of the bug and try to move it in the direction it wants to go. However, many goals are simply "to travel" in which case racking up miles by visiting does that job and is probably what the owner wants to happen. I had/have (not sure which right now) my first one with a goal to go from NY to Arizona and then back to Kentucky. It finally did start moving west after a lot of visiting in NY and someone in Michigan took it to Texas. I was pleased when someone almost immediately picked it up there and said he would move it on. I assumed he meant west toward Arizona. He took it back to Michigan. Personally I wouldn't take a bug visiting even if that was the desire of the owner simply because I don't want to have to fool around with all those posts although apparently the app on a smart phone will automatically do that for you and apparently does so by default. I have a dumb phone so that isn't possible and don't think I would use it if I had a smart phone. And that may be why all those posts are happening. The cacher may not realize his app logs a visit automatically when he logs a find on a cache.

I had one that the cache owner marked as missing as well as a cacher noting that it was missing before that. Several months later it was retrieved from that same cache, got back in play for about a month, and now seems to be lost again. Trackables dissapearing is the cost of playing the game.

I remember Cuba well since that's where my mother was born and also where I jump off the Expressway headed home for reunions from Kentucky. She got grief one time crossing into Canada to visit the Falls. She had been asked where she was born and instead of saying "New York State" she said "Cuba". Took some explaining but not nearly as much as the time my step father forgot about having his gun in the motor home and they decided to visit Canada.

Let's not forget Cuba down on the Southern Tier Expressway.

I've been first to find on a couple of good caches. No brass band. No 72 dancing virgins. No key to the city. Meh. Haven't figured the excitement with first to find. Maybe it's because I wasn't even trying to be first to find, it just worked out that way. If it's something you enjoy go for it. After all, some people don't understand why I like geocaching.

The "serves no purpose" argument I think is misguided. It is just as purpose-full as any other part of the reporting system. It lets the CO know that people are interested, and are attempting to find it. It lets other cachers know that in the dark, you will probably need a flashlight. Never occurred to me that if it is dark I need some form of illumination. Good thing someone is around to tell me that

A request for the finder to fix his spoiler rather than the CO hopefully teaches him not to post spoilers any more. If the CO does it without telling him he doesn't see it. If the CO makes him do it and assuming he didn't know better, the finder gets the lesson driven home better than just being told not to do that. Kind of like a kid made to clean up his messes learns more about not making messes than the kid who is told not to do that by parents who clean up the messes the kids make.

I studied some before releasing my trackable and figured out that it was a crap shoot at best and I haven't been surprised. I don't think I'll ever be big in this part of the game but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Still have several to release but haven't gotten around to doing so. On the plus side, I picked up a TB with nothing attached in Berea Ky. I dropped it in one of the caches that Kentucky Parks just recently set up. That booger has been moving along into several other of the Kentucky Parks caches. I don't know how long this will last but it is pleasant to follow it. I may just release another trackable in one of these caches.

A mission statement on the trackable can help but often they are ignored. I have one on mine that I dropped in NY near PA border and instead of going southwest it kept going northeast although short distances. It finally went west to Michigan and someone picked it up and took it to Texas where it was picked up and that guy took it right back to Michigan where it was later marked missing by the CO. It reappeared in that same cache with a picture showing the tag with the mission is still attached. And then this guy started moving it to the second leg of the mission (London Ky) without it ever going to the first leg (London Bridge in Lake Havasu City AZ). He also stopped well short of London Ky even though he logged that he was going through there on his way to Georgia. Someone else picked it up and it is in limbo again. For the tag to help the finder needs to read it. Too many don't. Other trackables I release will have tags with goals but I will do so knowing that isn't going to guarantee anyone will actually read it.

Do some research and you'll see that trackables being "stolen" or lost is not the least bit unusual. They disappear all the time. In business, you find inventory shrinkage from shoplifters and employees. It ain't right -- but it is a fact of life and is a cost of doing business. Trackables disappearing is part of the cost of the hobby. Ain't right but it is a fact of life. Let one out in the wild and hope for the best but don't lose sleep over them when they disappear. If you can't take a philosophical approach to it then maybe trackables is not the game for you.

I don't see how someone doing a throw down obligates the original CO to be the owner of the throw down. If some moron throws his McDonald's take out trash in my front yard it wasn't my meal although I get stuck with cleaning it up and that only because I don't want trash in my front yard. If it there is a witness to the littering who gets the criminal citation? Me or the guy who threw it out of his car? How about someone who plants marijuana on a very remote section of my property -- does that make me the owner of the plants and subject to criminal charges? It might if there is a worn path from my house to the those plants but absent that it won't. Now a property owner where a cache is located starts seeing trash -- throw downs -- that he didn't bargain for he might decide he's no longer interested in a cache on his property. This might obligate a responsible CO to do the clean up of the trash to prevent this or to even archive it to protect the property owner but that does not create ownership of someone else's trash.

Good luck with the plans but you can't control who finds it and what they do with it and when they do it. I have one that has a tag attached with goals explained. It went northeast instead of southwest for a time. It then went due west to Michigan and then to Texas which got it most of the way to Arizona (goal was London Bridge in Lake Havasu City AR and then to London Ky). Cacher picked it up and said he would move it on and promptly took it back to Michigan (picture since shows the tag is still attached). It disappeared from that cache with the CO marking it as missing after someone posting it wasn't there. It recently was picked up in that same cache (?) and the guy said he would move it to London Ky while on his way to Atlanta. Only problem is it still hasn't made it to Arizona. Without reading the logs he doesn't know that and with all the visit logs that's a lot of wading to find out so I can't say as I blame him. Point is, your trackable is at the mercy of the people who find them and there is no way to guarantee that finders are going to actually do what you want. However, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Try it and hope for the best -- but don't be surprised if it doesn't work like you planned.

About a month ago I tried a cache (pill bottle low) and posted a DNF -- "Recent landscaping work with bushes trimmed and new mulch. Mulch was piled pretty high and I won't mess with landscaping. May be gone or may be buried in the mulch. Possible too I missed it in the bush but don't think so." Apparently I'm quite the expert as the next person "found it" and posted this -- "According to a recent log, the new landscaping had displaced the original cache. I placed a new waterproof match container, painted black, with new log, so all visiting cachers can get the smiley. Happy caching!"

I just had one that went missing 4 months ago and confirmed by CO that it was missing from his cache 3 months ago. A couple days ago it was picked up from that same cache by someone and is back in circulation. So don't count it out yet. More important, you seem highly agitated that the trackable is missing. Do some research and you will see this isn't all that unusual. It may not be the way it's supposed to be but it is the way it is. Just like shoplifting is part of the cost of doing business in a retail store and deadbeats are a part of the cost of doing business if you offer credit, lost trackables are part of the cost of the hobby. Lots of people get mad and refuse to release trackables any more because of it. You may find this idea has merit for you. If you're going to play the game you release and hope for the best. Accept that there are casualties and celebrate the ones that travel without issue .

My trackable I referred to above just resurfaced -- in the cache it had supposedly disappeared from according to one cacher and the cache owner. It was moved and picked up again by someone who has read the tag attached and promised to take it to the final destination on his way through from Michigan to Georgia. Only problem is that the trackable hasn't made it to it's first destination yet but reading the tag attached doesn't tell you that. He apparently didn't read the logs when he logged it but given the "visits" posted I don't guess I can blame him for that either. Just happy that the game isn't over. So, when he drops it here locally I'll just try to retrieve it and modify the tag to point out it didn't make it to Arizona yet and release it again and see what happens.

Well, I said don't hold your breath that your trackable will suddenly reappear ... Ours was moved to Michigan from Texas (after going to Texas from Michigan). A couple days later someone posted that it was not in the cache. A month later the CO marked it missing since he confirmed it wasn't in his cache. Yesterday, someone picked up the trackable from that same cache.

It really is possible for a cache to show up. Our trackable was placed in a cache in Michigan in late April. A couple days later a cacher posted a log that the trackable was not in the cache. At the end of May the CO posted a note that the trackable was missing from the cache and marked it as missing. Today -- 3 months after the CO marked it missing -- a cacher logged that she had grabbed that trackable from that same cache that it was supposed to be missing from. Don't get in a hurry to give up on your trackable.

You never know what happens. I had a log show up that our trackable that had been dropped in a Michigan cache a few days earlier was not there. This was 4 months ago. A month later the cache owner marked it missing since he confirmed it wasn't in his cache -- I didn't ask him to check it. That was 3 months ago. Today a log showed up that another cacher had grabbed it and would move it on. It was grabbed from that same cache in which two people logged that the trackable was not there. Don't get in a hurry to give up.

Your problem is all too common. There are lots of threads about people complaining about this and vowing never to release another one. On the other hand some people have had trackables in circulation for years. I put one out that lasted a year until it disappeared a couple months ago. I will release another and know it may well disappear. You put one out and hope for the best. If it disappears don't lose sleep over it since that is just the way it is. It doesn't matter whether it's right or not, it is the way it is and you can't change it. It's part of the cost of the hobby. If the price is too high, don't play. Think of it this way -- if you left $5 on a park bench where a lot of people are and walked away would you be surprised if no one called to you or chased you down to return your $5? Some people have had their trackables suddenly show up after years of being lost. However, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

So, now we are comparing what Humans do for food, with what Humans do as a hobbie?!?!?!? There are many more examples on what Humans extract from trees or damage trees to take benefit. For you to do geocaching HAVE TO put a nail or a screw in a tree for your cache to be "perfect"... I think not! There are so many creative ways to put a cache, why harm a tree with the soul propose of putting up a geocache? You seem to have totally missed my point. Placing a screw or nail in a tree is not death to the tree as way too many people choose to believe. You also obviously missed where I said I would not like to see the rule get changed. See the bold print where I noted that some will go to extremes to hide the cache which I do agree is to no particular purpose.

I did a lot of reading before releasing my trackable. I knew there was a fair chance it would disappear at some point but I thought it would manage at least a year. I did not notice in all those logs I read that people don't really pay any attention to those goals even when attached to the bug. I release my first one in western NY close to the PA line with the goal of going to London Bridge in Lake Havasu City and then to the London Ky area. It needed to go southwest but it went northeast for several moves before someone took it to Michigan and someone there moved it to Texas. I got hopeful and when it was picked up by someone who logged that they would move it on I really got hopeful. Trouble is he took it back to Michigan where it disappeared. That's when I started paying attention to how things move and generally they don't follow the goal. The other thing I figured out was hoping that the bug would move all that distance in a year's time was a pipe dream. It's a game and you simply put it out and hope it goes and be thankful if it does and philosophical about it if/when it doesn't. Life's too short to get your drawers in a knot over something this unimportant.

Taps for maple syrup is a good example of how this practice doesn't damage trees. Farmers have nailed barbed wire to trees for years. They also attach insulators to those trees for an electric fence. If this were a problem you would not see trees in fence rows on farms. I watched a This Old House segment once about a tree with a split branch. The repair to save the tree (by a tree surgeon) was to drill several 1/2" holes all the way through the tree and then insert all thread rod with washers and nuts on both sides and then tighten them down to bring the tree back together. Extra all thread rod is cut flush with the nuts. The tree eventually covers the the rod and you never see it again. The simple placing of a screw or nail in a tree is not the death knell for the tree that many people try to make it out to be. That said, I wouldn't want to see this becoming accepted practice. Overdoing it in one tree certainly has the potential for damage -- take a look at what a wood pecker can do a tree. But while one guy is happy with one screw to mount his cache another is going to want to drill a large cavity to hide it.