Deceangi

That is a project that is currently being worked on by Groundspeak, they are not quite ready to roll it out yet as there is still work needed to finish it. Deci

Generally the NT where the property is leased out, will not give permission for a cache placement, and usually suggest direct permission is obtained off the Tenant. Unless the Parks Authority actually owns the Land, they can not give Permission for a cache Placement. As they are a Oversight Authority, so the Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority, who own caches under the Dales Diva account, always obtain permission of the actual Landowner for their cache Placements. Deci

The requirement as has been stated several times, was put in place due to advice given by the ACPO. The GAGB working with the Reviewers and aided by Groundspeak, are actively working to build a close liaison with all individual Police Forces The person who was involved in the Incident and received a Caution. Is now facing major repercussions within his employment, he is also facing possible further sanctions. So any measure which goes to prevent such a thing happening in the future, should be welcome. No sorry I will not comment further on the nature of the persons employment, due to confidentiality and possibly creating further issues for him. I am aware that at least one Police Force is monitoring this and other Forums, so if this persons employer does the same, I have no wish to see more issues created for him, nor his colleagues who might happen to be Geocachers. A full definition of Urban has yet to be evolved. But personally for me, caches located in a location similar to my former colleagues is, I believe would not trigger a Major Security Alert. There is more of a chance of Police being called out, treating it as someone attempting to hide illicit goods such as drugs or stolen goods. That comes from having several interactions with the Police as a Reviewer, and one incident involving the finding of a object hidden by someone in my Garden. Which later turned out to have been used in the commission of a crime. Now move 2 minutes from my former colleagues cache location, and yes I would say that you are now in a location defined as Urban under the Guideline. As to cache sizes, there is already this in place Note that states all sizes, and has been in implementation since 2007, care to guess where? Answer the Metropolitan Police Agreement, which also requires CO's to provide photographs of the container. And also the following text So being required to use clear sided containers with the Listing Site Identifier Code on the container (one Listing Site specifically uses the GAGB Guidelines as native ones. Given the Review process they use, it will be interesting to see how they enforce the requirement). and paste means that less work is involved for both the CO and Reviewer than the Met Agreement. The Ripples from the Wetherby Incident unlike in the US where such incidents only ripple locally, is rippling throughout the whole of the UK. It's even reached down to the South West, and had a impact there. Geocaching is no longer a underground hobby, neither is it peeking at the edges of the mainstream now in the UK (the incident has even been reported in a US News web site), Geocaching is now Front and Centre in the UK. Genuine cache log, made since the incident took place Deci

This is something the GAGB and the Reviewers aided by Groundspeak are working on. but it will take a period of time to fully implement. Until then we can only take advice given by the Police and implement that advice. Deci

Tim the ripples from that one cache are currently being felt up and down the country, I personally have to deal with contact to Groundspeak from 2 Separate Police Forces outside of Yorkshire. The Guideline was implemented after a initial contact, with the ACPO and feedback which was obtained. This was discussed by the GAGB and Reviewers as to the best way to implement it, at as much of a minimum impact to the community as possible. No heavy handing is being applied. As for the wording, all caches on MOD Access Land, has been required to display a specific warning for many years. No issues have arisen due to that. The wording just confirms to members that the cache complies with the Guideline before they search for it. The Reviewers are just human and not all seeing, neither do we go out and physically check cache locations before publication. One cache has already suffered, due to the ripples of that one cache. And that was not in a heavily built up area. But was in a location that was causing a security concern, enough for official contact to be made with Groundspeak. The contact specifically mentioning the incident at Wetherby. Geocaching is at the moment highly in peoples minds. Deci The definition of Urban from wiki: An urban area is characterized by higher population density and vast human features in comparison to areas surrounding it. Urban areas may be cities, towns or conurbations, but the term is not commonly extended to rural settlements such as villages and hamlets. We're trying to address locations where there are lots of muggles so higher chance of bomb scares I live in a Village which because it has a church can not be described as Hamlet, despite it's size, if you blink you've gone past it. Personally I would not describe that as Urban. Over time a better definition will evolve. Also the Guideline does not discourage Nano and Micros in urban areas, it simply states that a container larger than a 35mm Film can must have the GC Code or equivalent Listing Site Code clearly marked on the exterior, and that all containers larger than a 35mm film can must have clear sides. That is from feedback from the ACPO, who are trying to facilitate Geocaching at the same time reducing the repeat of what happened in Wetherby. Deci

Due to the Wetherby Geocache Incident, as part of a project between the GAGB, The UK & Ireland Reviewers aided by Groundspeak. To contact all Police Forces in the UK, in regards to Geocaching in their Force Areas. A initial approach was made to the ACPO-Association of Chief Police Officers, from initial feedback received. The GAGB after discussions with the Reviewers have produced the following Urban Caching Guideline Moving forward all caches submitted in Urban areas, will be required to comply with this Guideline. More information can be found here Here Currently Active caches in Urban Areas, will as per usual be Grandfathered In. But it is hoped that these cache owners will adjust their caches to comply with the Guideline Deceangi Volunteer UK Reviewer

Can I just add something which has not been mentioned. People should Only Hide caches if they are prepared to physically go out and Maintain that cache, for the life of that cache whilst they ate the owner of it. So they should be prepared to go out within a reasonable period (I'm not talking immediately, but with the Guideline requirements of a few weeks, or at least post a note with a genuine explanation of why maintenance in being delayed) for at least 3 months (the minimum time a cache is listed for) up to 4-5-6 or even 10 years. At no time should they sit back and rely on others to maintain the cache, that's not to say a finder performing maintenance should not take place if it falls within the reasonable maintenance period . Provided the cache owner acknowledges and thanks that person on the cache page. Why? Because it shows the Owner has actively monitored the cache, and not ignored and and has just not gone out to maintain it yet. They should be prioritising maintaining the caches they own, over going out finding them! Sadly it's all too common for a Reviewer to end up Archiving a cache due to no owner maintenance, despite that owner being out caching every week without fail! Priority Should always be Maintaining Owned Caches Finding Caches Placing Caches in that order, those who have never placed a cache, might not have done so for specific reasons. If they don't feel that they are in a position to maintain those caches they placed, or have no inclination to maintain any they place. Then they are doing the community a huge service by not placing any. Deci

Does your close associate have access to the full details of what triggered the incident to escalate the way it did? Because the Police have not revealed any details, nor have they revealed the details of the person cautioned or the reason why. There could be underlying reasoning behind the incident being escalating, did the person detained by the Police, claim that it was a Bomb? In which case the Police would be required to escalate despite there being a risk that the person was being unreasonable. The advice given is always to fully and openly explain what your doing and explain about the basics of Geocaching if challenged. This has worked on numerous occasions within the UK. So did your close associate have access to what the person stated to the police? The more contact there is with the Police over this incident, the more doubt there are about it just being a overreaction. Until all the details are full revealed, we will be left to imagine the reasoning behind what happened. What I do know is that the incident has created ripples to other Police Forces, which we are working to resolve. And also within the Geocaching Community, not just in the UK. I've had several members contact me, concerned that by going Geocaching, their risking a Police Caution, so putting their Careers at risk. In each case I have hopefully reassured them, and I take the time to point out that One of the UK Reviewers is a serving Police Officer, in a high profile posting. One who would lose his posting at least on receiving a Caution. Yet he is happy to continue going Geocaching, including on his way to and from work. And he is based in London. Please if you are challenged by the Police or a member of the Public, be Open and Honest about what you are doing, explain the basics of Geocaching if the Officers have not heard of it. They might shake their heads, and mutter about "nutters" as your walking away. Bit the highest chance is there will not be any further action taken. There have been incidents of Officers actually helping to search for the container. Other incidents of Officers on discovering a container have signed the log book. We have had members challenged by the Metropolitan Police, a member challenged by Police 20 miles from a Major Airport. Because the cache was under the Flight Path, the person being reported by a member of the Public, who was in the Airport Watch scheme. We have had members challenged by the British Nuclear Police, the cache location at a historic feature over a mile away from the Nuclear Power Station. Not a single member received a Police Caution over these Deci

Thank You, that is greatly appreciated Funny - your profile says 17 finds?? If you had waited for a reply to your email and not the 3 hours you did before demanding a reply off me. I would have taken the time to explain that majority of Reviewers have 2 accounts. Reviewer and Member. I would also have fully explained why all the logs after the Archive log were deleted. A action which not only had the support of my colleagues, but also the Cache Owner! Also again for your information the reason I travelled to Manchester from North Wales for the BBC Interview, was because no one from Yorkshire was apparently willing to appear on camera, for fear of the implications that interview might create. I was asked at 09:00 and was in Manchester for 12:00, something which required the support of my family to do so. As to why? I was trying to avoid the report being one sided, as the reporter had informed my that he was interviewing a senior Police Officer in Leeds that afternoon. The short clip you saw, is the remains of over 20 minutes filming. As for you latest comment, if you'd taken the time to search this forum! You would have found multiple posts which give both my Reviewed ID and Player ID, since becoming a Reviewer and initially playing a Guess Who I Am, with the community. Something which we do when all new UK Reviewers come on board, you will find that I have been completely open about both accounts. In fact the last post with both of my Geocaching ID's and First name, also has the same information for all the then current UK Reviewers, who are also open and above board about both identities. I also give you public permission to post the 3 emails you have sent me today, to this forum! With reference to a post you made on 24 February 2011 - 04:28 PM, in a topic that is now locked ( hence I cannot quote in the normal manner ) with title: 'Is this a new thin end of the wedge? Bristol area' and with reference to an email, to which I never received a reply..... 'The advice in the Topic that you can not condone, happened to be formulated after the UK Reviewers carefully discussed it. One of those Reviewers being a Serving Police Officer. Deci' .... maybe the reviewer to which you refer may be a good starting point for your proposal document?..... FYI all the UK/Ireland Reviewers and the GAGB will be involved in the preparation of the Document. FYI I currently have a 150 email back log, I have not read personal non Geocaching Emails since January so have a huge personal email backlog to catch up on. I have been prioritising the Reviewing of caches before actioning emails, before that I prioritise the most import responsibility I have in my life (yes something with a higher priority than Reviewing caches and providing support to Geocachers) that of being Carer to my Spouse and 2 Teenage Children (one of whom suffers from CFS), My spouse's health having severely deteriorated over the last 18 months, has seen her have 2 operations within that period. Yet up to January I was Juggling everything and keeping on top of all. Last night instead of Reviewing the 30/40 caches waiting for me, I took the night off to clear out some of the email backlog, which after several hours work reduced it to the 150 email back log. Despite that, I've got UK Geocachers demanding I reply to a email they sent just 3 hours before. Putting in on average 3-4 hours, 7 days per week just Reviewing caches on a unpaid Volunteer Basis. Means some things have to be prioritised. Emails have been the bottom priority. I personally come into the forums as a escape during a period Reviewing caches, so that when I return to the queue and the angst that can be thrown at Reviewers for a variety of reasons. So that I deal with each cache submission in a professional manner If you or anyone else has any complaints about the way I work as a Reviewer then please make a Formal Complaint to Groundspeak using the @geocaching.com email address or the on-line reporting tool selecting "Yes" for urgent and "Geocache Appeals" for category. I will happily accept if Groundspeak decide to remove me as a Volunteer Reviewer! Deci

A Controlled Explosion is a "Render Safe Procedure" this can be done in a variety of ways, including a jet of extremely high pressure water , the purpose of which is to "disrupt" the explosives and detonator. Without triggering the actual explosives. Basically the blast breaks the IED-Improvised Explosive Device into pieces, separating the detonator components into pieces and away from the explosive component. The whole aim it to make the IED safe for the EOD -Explosive Ordnance Officer, to go forward and complete the Render Safe, reducing the risks to the EOD.It is a technique which was helped developed by the British Army whist they were serving in NI. In fact the Wheel Barrow remote controlled Device used, is a development of those developed for EOD work in NI (the Wheel Barrow nickname comes from the fact that the very first ones, actually used wheel barrow frames ) Deci

Obscure??? But geocaching is more popular than Electricity Pylon Spotting!!! Deci And yes it is a real hobby

Funnily enough a part on the editing suit floor, in reply to being asked if information about Geocaching is being disseminated enough, was me mentioning the fact that at the weekend I had acted as Walk Leader (came as a surprise, as I got a request for help on Wednesday. And went to provide support) for Conwy Walking Week's Introduction to Geocaching, which had around 20 muggles attending. That was up at the Sychnant *Pass As for "546 finds" well I'm guessing it is over 600, if I ever catch up with logging finds, from Perth, Oxford, Sale and several other occasions . Mind you it can take me 2 years or more to log a find or 3 But if you want prolific, my Published Logs page takes several minutes to load I'm working hard to reach 40,000 hopefully by the Welsh mega, if not before I will cross the magic line just after it I was considering giving the Lucky Owner of my 40,000th published cache a little gift, a Gold Deci Geocoin. To be presented at the Mega If I do break the barrier beforehand, or a follow up event if not. Deci * oh and Synchant is pronounced Suchnant not Sicknant as one Radio reporter called it

Now your talking about the Council process there. Glazing is down to Plumbers (please don't ask me why, because this is something I've tried to fathom out since i fist went to work for a council,way back in the 70's) Electrician to insure that the Frame is not live, is not leaking on to any electrics, which would then have to be disconnected until the leak is resolved Ground Staff to check that the responding Plumber & Electrician are not at risk of harming any rare plants or at risk of acquiring Tetanus from a plant or unsuitable manure being used at the location. Waste Disposal due to the fact that the sealer might possibly be a controlled waste product, so that it requires disposing of in a special way (with ensuing paper work) or there is unsuitable manure at the location. Which again would need specialised removal and disposal I've always found Council Rangers to be a great source for who to contact within the council, if they don't know directly who to contact. They will usually put you on to someone else within the department who does know. So a local Ranger, will put you on to his/her boss. The other approach is to contact the Chairman of the Council directly, and they will pass the request down the chain of command. It will soon land on the desk of the appropriate person, as everyone gets rid of the hot potato as quick as possible Deci Note to all council staff, this is only a gentile leg pull. I worked for Manchester City Council for 13 years

Over 20 minutes of filming (in the car park of the BBC's Manchester Studio ) spread over 5 questions. And the cut me down to the one point where I stuttered The UK/Ireland Reviewers working closely with the GAGB and Groundspeak, are working on creating a process to disseminate information about Geocaching through all levels of all Police forces in the UK. This will take time to put the package together, so that there is no extended cost to our monetary restricted Police Forces. Plus time to allow for initial contact and for that contact to be firmed up. What has happened, is not being ignored, and we are trying to move things forward in a way which has minimal impact for both the Geocaching Community and also the Police Service who have a extremely impossible job to do, one being made harder daily by having funding reduced. Oh and on arriving back home from Manchester, I ended up doing a recorded interview with BBC Radio Humberside . I don't know when that will be broadcast, but was informed it will be available on the net. So hopefully someone will get a copy of another example of me making a pratt of myself and post it to You Tube, especially as I know that Colin would like to add a link in his next UKGCPodcacast Deci PS: at the start of filming on camera I was asked to identify myself. I stated I was Dave Palmer, Deceangi Volunteer UK Reviewer Geocaching.com, which is owned by Groundspeak. So where they got "Geocaching Coach" from is beyond me. Honestly

Personally I've had contact off a local Geocacher, whose prepared to contact the local Police to discuss Geocaching. I've suggested this person makes a appointment to see the Divisional Officer. And I have offered subject to specific dates being tied up (including my Silver Wedding Anniversary) to attend any such meetings.rather than this discussed at a very local level, both Dave Edwards the GAGB Chairman and my self felt it was better discussed at a more senior level, so that the outcome of any discussion is disseminated throughout the whole division , from the top down. Rather than having to filter up then down the chain of command within the Division. Deci

See here GC11K20 (still only has ten log types though) Be patent it will certainly reach 11 icons, and might even hit the giddy heights of 12 icons Deci

Your making it sound like there is a requirement to park in the Pub Car park to retrieve the cache, that would be a ALR. Which are no longer listed, and which are not a Grandfathered In category either. So each person has the choice to park elsewhere and walk into the Pub Car park, as it is not a requirement of the cache Actually they sponsor the publication of caches personally I've put in over 1,000 hours on their free WIFI reviewing and publishing caches (including between 19:00 and 21:00 one Christmas Eve). I've lost track of the Free Coffee's they have given me whilst doing so (under the buy 6 and get the 7th free . In fact at one point I used to permanently have a minimum of 5 full collector cards in the car.) and I'm not a coffee addict (and I'll continue to deny so, until I trade a mortal existence for something else ) Oh and Ronald (McDonald) being a recognised Trade Mark for McDonald's Restaurants LTD. And as such would make the cache commercial.

Hope I don't see any Garmin Chirp caches or dare I say PM only ones then and they definitely fail on that score. Garmin Chirp Caches, are allowed as a exception to the Commercial Guidelines by Groundspeak. Deci I note you say nothing in defence of PM only aches my friend. Chirp are exempt because the frog got paid... Garmn are now the opposition... But we all know Jeremy didntl't see that coming. No problem with GS... But the sponsors sometimes (potty mouth veiled word removed by moderator, as I have discussed on several occasions) us all. Sorry but why should I need to defend PMO caches, that is a feature made available to those who support the running of this site. By putting their hands in their pockets, in return they gain extra features. One of which is the ability to List PMO caches. And FYI! Groundspeak were not and have not been "paid" by Garmin to allow "Chirp" Cache! Groundspeak took a decision based on what was in the best interest of their own customers, and that was to allow Chirp caches, because their own customers would be purchasing and wishing to use them. If Groundspeak had banned them, do you believe Garmin would have advertised that fact? They'd still have let people buy them and then find out they could not be listed on GC. So Chirp caches are not and never have been sponsored by Garmin when listed on GC. Groundspeak looked after their customers best interests and pockets by allowing them. If you care to telephone or contact Groundspeak by email, they will happily confirm that no payment off Garmin has been received in regards to sponsoring Chirp caches on GC. [PERSONAL OPINION] They I'm guessing devised them as a tool to promote another of their products, a idea which possibly did not go to plan, as they expected a totally different decision made by others. [END OF PERSONAL OPINION ] Having done a Chirp cache with a number of other Reviewers, I'd personally say that the purchase of one, would not be on my wish list. A chirp in a 35mm film can, placed in a tree, and several of those with the appropriate equipment, even when right next to the chirp location could not get a signal. In the end it had to be physically held next to the GPSr. But at least the person who owned it, had the ability to list it on GC, because Groundspeak took a decision in that persons best interest. Also please do not swear in post, even by anagramming the word (and yes I know it is a brand of perfume, but your use of the word is not referencing to that product ) Deci

Hope I don't see any Garmin Chirp caches or dare I say PM only ones then and they definitely fail on that score. Garmin Chirp Caches, are allowed as a exception to the Commercial Guidelines by Groundspeak. Deci

As a Reviewer I have seen more than one Needs Archived log, which on reading it. Was clear that the person making the log intended to make a Fond/DNF log. If there is no text, it is impossible to tell if the person is making a genuine NA log. So sorry blank logs do not indicate anything other than that the person pushed a button! If those NA logs had been blank, I would have then had triple the workload, to assess the genuine status of those logs. Of course I could just presume that the log is genuine, and on coming to action it, as the CO has not actioned it, Archive the cache! There would be a major uproar if I did that! So sorry a blank log is totally uses, as it does not indicate anything! It does not even to the Log owner that they have made the wrong log type in the future. Also what happens when a Log owner submits the wrong cache type, the CO deletes it, as it's not clear whether its a find/DNF/Needs Maintenance/ Needs Archived/Note type log because it's a blank log. The Log owner then complains to Groundspeak. That would mean a Lackey having to work with 2 members to resolve the issue, at the same time confirming the correct log type. And at the end of the day it turns out, the Log Owner did in fact make the wrong log type. So that means a lackey has had to waste time, better spent dealing with a genuine complaint, when with a few words in the log it would have been clear to the CO that it was the wrong log type, that person could then have deleted the log, contacted the Log owner to re-log using the correct log type. Deci

There was a Reviewer in the Group Deci ps: not me though I'm still here in wet North Wales

I bet the Bull did wish it had my slippers on and could have put its feet up , after the Farmer came and chased it back out of the yard because it wasn't his Bull, but his Heifers were in the cattle sheds in the yard . As to why I chased the Bull in the first place? Well I was used to chasing the cows back into the yard after they had escaped, I just forgot to check the underneath of the animal first to make sure it had a milk machine there . A lesson I've never forgotten Girls are friendly Boys are frisky (if your another Bovine) Boys and Girls together, Avoid!

Personally I walk through a field which regularly has cows in it, when walking my 2 Poodles. The advice to let the dogs go if the cows curiosity brings them over to inquire about them. Being to let the dogs go, who will find their own way out of the field. Does not work as one cowers behind my legs and the other goes nose to nose with them in a sniffing contest which is funny when you consider her nose is the size of half my thumb . Yet a cows is bigger than my hand So despite my personal fears of them, (despite once chasing a Bull back into a farmers yard in my slippers ), I've learned to just shout at them telling them to go and find some grass elsewhere (well as the advice is to shout, I might as well shout good advice ) and wave my hands in the air. They tend to stop in their tracks when they get near us (I wonder if they think there is a idiot shouting stupid advice at us ) Now Horses on the other hand are something which I will not go in the same field as, after having one turn nasty at me, whilst quietly crossing a field. Deci

The National Trust Senior Management are encouraging staff at a local level to list NT owned caches on GC as well as the Other companies site, which is required as part of the Corporate Sponsorship by that company. I'll leave everyone to make their own assessment of what the large Billion Dollar Company is aiming to get out of the sponsorship deal. The NT on the other hand get free equipment for each of their locations. Which as they are a Charity, is a win situation as far as they are concerned. Deci

My understanding is that they intend filming tomorrow Thursday, in Wales (but no where near me) Deci