jackddavis

Just a note to bring all up to date on the disposition of the topic cache "Dead Tired". It turns out it IS a Geocaching.com cache and the person who found it accidently was able to contact the previous owner of the cache and has decided to "adopt it". He notified the reviewer of his intentions and the reviewer asked me to contact him. I'm attempting to do so now and will, gladly, give it up to the "new owner". I've even added several items to sweeten the pot. All's well that ends well and everyone is happy. Thanks to all for the opinions and suggestions.

You're welcome......I think you might be convinced if you actually saw the site. Perhaps you missed the fact that the lid of the container is clearly marked "www.geocaching.com" and there are no other caches listed on geocaching.com near this sight. A search for words on the lid for other caches and user names turns up nothing. Another fact to consider is that this lady posted 154 "finds" in 2005 ...none in 2006 and none in 2007. For what ever reason, (lack of interest, illness, accident, etc.) she is no longer active in geocaching. Edited to delete incorrect statement.

This has been a worrysome thing for me......being accused of piracy, theft, etc......so with a little more research I've found the following: !. This cache owner last logged on to Geocaching.com Nov. 23, 06 2. This cache owner last posted to any (geocaching.com) log Oct. 21, 05 3. This cache was first reported missing and confirmed on Oct 1, 06 4. A note on the cache posting apparently written by the cache owner the last time she logged on, (see 1. above) state "Original Cache container was cracked and leaked... but it hobbled along for a while. On a recent trip to reveiw the cache, I was unable to locate it. So, I put a new container with new toys and treasures out." This explains the different container. 5. This cache was archived because it was reported missing again (although it had only been moved) and repeated attempts to contact the owner went unanswered. 6. Two of the three caches by this owner have been archived, both due to neglect. 7. This cache has been found twice since it was archived Feb. 13, 07. Once by grandpa noodle on 3/31/07. Grandpa noodle left two pages stating that "there was no log & we took nothing" Curious as to why there was no Internet log entry, I checked grandpa noodles log entries and found his entry in a California cache with the same date......that cache had a similar name as this one. See his Geocaching.com entry here on the date he visited "Dead Tired" in Oregon. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b1-9dbd6891472a The second time it was found accidently and logged by trail hound. 7. I contacted the person (reviewer) that archived this cache and was told, via email that it no longer had an owner and has been abandoned. Further, I was told that I could either adopt the cache or retrieve it. I indicated that I would retrieve it and place it in a new place as my first cache. Here, in Oregon and the Western states, a vast majority of land is public and, I believe, rarely is permission obtained to place a cache. This cache was most probably located on county owned land and was outside of the fenced in area of the cemetery alongside the junction of a highway and road to the cemetery. If this were on private land then I would agree that it should not be removed by anyone except the owner or land owner. On public land, however, should we leave abandoned geo litter behind or clean it up? Our roadsides and forests have enough garbage and if geocaches are abandoned and left to add to that litter, our pastime, sport or what ever it is will soon draw criticism and the ire of those that have to clean up after us. I think the rules have been ignored in this case and it is the responsibility of geocachers to police their own or suffer the consequences. When you find a cache that has been neglected, report it. If it isn't taken care of after a reasonable time (in this case over 6 months) then further action should be taken, such as was done in this case. This website reinforces my views presented here. http://forestry.about.com/od/mappinggis/p/fed_geocache.htm This paragraph in particular....."Is Geocache Considered Littering by the Feds?: According to the Code of Federal Regulations, burying or abandoning personal property in national parks and forests is prohibited due to issues concerning littering. Geocaching supporters argue that caches are not abandoned because people monitor them consistently on the Web and are bound by an unwritten code to keep their "personal" cache in order, with frequent visits and continuous upkeep. The debate is still out on this but actions of geocachers will surely determine any future outcome." If we (active geocachers) don't clean up abandoned caches, who will???? Park Rangers? Forest Service personnel? County road crews??? What will the consequences of our non-action be???? I say REMOVE ABANDONED CACHES from public property after determining for certain they are abandoned and have been archived for good reason. Leaving litter behind goes against everything I believe in and have practiced most of my adult life.

Well....the plot has thickened some. I contacted the reviewer that archived the cache. I was told it had no owner and that I could "adopt it or pick it up. I wrote back that I would pick it up and place it in a different area as my first cache with new goodies. We picked it up this morning and noticed that it had "Geocache.com" and a "*****" (title of the cache or name of cache owner). This name was not the name of the cache that was originally hidden there and I began to wonder if it was a later cache. A search of the name as name of the cache as well as the name of a cache owner turned up nothing. There was a one page log with two finder names and a search of those names did not bring up anything either. Can't be a new cache.....one finder logged the date as 3/31/07 and stated that there was no log, so he wrote on a piece of paper and left it in the container. The other found it accidentally and logged 7/17/07 (on that same piece of paper). Neither "finder" has logged anything on geocache.com that links to this cache although they both have recent entries of other finds. When we first found a cache in this place one year ago, it was in a plastic jar and called "Dead Tired". When we located it this week, it was in an Army surplus ammo can. At any rate, our reviewer knows that I have it in my possession.

My granddaughter and I were looking for (and finding) caches this morning and while in the neighborhood, checked a cache that we had found some time ago. It was still there and granddaughter traded a very nice shell necklace and 4 quarters for a puzzle and a small cookbook. I was just trying to log our visit and found it is archived. Should I go back and remove it or, at least remove the items she left? Can it be reactivated? I hesitate to list the archived cache coordinates here, lest it be confiscated by unknowns.

You're right, of course and I didn't mean to sound like it was all negative. I apologize if I sounded that way. It's just that I had most this worked out, but still had some questions, especially about it being posted on this site. I like to be different and inventive and the Q&A says this is encouraged, but all I got was discouragment and more of the same. Even though much of it was meant to be positive, because it was just telling me to do what others have done before or scrap the idea, it came across as negative. Many, if not most, of the replies discouraged me from trying something different. I appreciate the feedback and have been altering my plans to make them "fit" the guidelines according to this feedback. All I'm asking for are suggestions to make this work and still fit the guidelines of this site. It does sound like the "theme" cache with the variations I mentioned before will do the job. It's not just me that wants to do this, but also my grandson. It's his bike. He enjoys geocaching with me and if he wants to give his bike away in a geocache, I think I should help him do that. Thank you very much. That is what I was (and still am) hoping for. Ideas ( and yours is a good one) and suggestions to make it work and a rewarding experience for a youngster.

What I'm getting from this forum is contrary to the very words quoted above in the Q&A section of the Geocaching.com website. I do however understand the need to give as well as receive and my idea is growing around what you folks are saying. Let me run this up the pole....so to speak. The bike is a Pokemon....How about a traditional "theme" cache (Pokemon) stocked with traditional log book and several Pokemon items. Among those items would be a small container with a note containing coordinates to a "surprise" multi-cache which would lead to the picture cache and coordinates to the Pokemon bicycle. They would be taking the small container from the original cache, so it would no longer be "active". To claim the bike, they would have to present that original container and note from the original cache as well as the picture from the second cache. This would be a variation of the multi cache except that the second and third caches would not be posted at the website. Should they not want the bike, I would place the container with the note back in the original cache for another to find. I'm hoping to get more positive replies and help pulling this off rather than just "give it to charity". I know nobody likes change except a wet baby, but progress is made by thinking outside the box or sticking your neck out. It's not like this 16" bike is a great find. It's value is probably under $20, although it's in great condition. It's just too big to stick in an ammo can or even a bucket.

For what reason are you against this? You're the second one to suggest a charity, but no reason given except that you have money to buy one......The only "charity" that would take it, here, is Goodwill Industries and they would not give it to a worthy child, they would sell it. What's the problem with a "treasure hunt for a child"? I have five granchildren and I guarantee that they would be delighted in a hunt for a bicycle or the like. I'm puzzled.

What if...... I hide a permanant cache.....a normal old cache....and later go back, after the FTF types have had their fun, and add a note with coordinates to an unposted cache, which would contain the picture of the bike and coordinates to claim it? Or.... could I just put it (the note) in someone's existing cache, posting it to the internet cache log? This thought doesn't thrill me. Not sure that would be kosher. Unfortunately, this is probably true.....a few bad apples will spoil the barrel every time.

Well....I'm glad I asked. I did read the guidelines. In reading them, I had the impression that they were just guidelines and not meant to be restrictive to new ideas or etched in stone. This would, I think, be a new type of cache......one that could be a real treasure hunt for a 5 year old and his father or grandfather and time well spent together. No need for a log if the first to find removes the container and it is posted as found and inactive. Sure, I could donate it to Goodwill, but not much fun there....for anyone. They would just sell it. I thought the fun was in the hunt for treasure, not the purchase. More thought is needed here.

I've never hidden a cache before.....Just taken my grandchildren geocaching...... I decided to give away a small bicycle that my grandkids out grew and wondered about a geocache to do it. The idea is a one time geocache.....with a picture of the bike and coordinates to my home to claim. They would need to bring the picture with them to claim it. After the bike is claimed, I would archive the cache. No log would be included. I think this would be a "Mystery" type cache, as the cache is not at the original coordinates. The question is.....will it be posted...since it is a short term, one prize, cache? How can I find out? Has anyone done something like this before?