MCL

One adult. (well... adultescent anyway...)

I fully expect to be there.

I suppose they keep going longer than normal pens do they?

Some people have suggested I should have been at the other end.... For those of you not from these shores, the name of the town being signposted is "Dunstable". That is a genuine unedited photo.

Some interesting followups to my last post. A few people may have misinterpreted what i was trying to say. First, when I use the term "puzzle cache" I am NOT using it in the current (new) definition given to it by GC.COM. but rather in the way I have always used it to refer to a lot of other caches that require a disproportionate amount of effort to do. maybe I should have called them "challenge" caches, because this includes some of the long, drawn-out multi caches that actually rate as a 1 or 2 difficulty, yet require six hours of walk to do them. Or again, they are simple multi caches rated difficulty 2 that happen to have 26 easy micro stages on the way. I was only pointing out that recently there are a lot of new caches that fall into this category, and end up (as Pharisee was pointing out when he started this thread) not being done very much because frankly most people can't be bothered to allocate that much time to a single cache. You can argue as much as you like that these are perfectly valid caches and they should be allowed to be set and you are right but it is a hollow argument, because it doesn't get past the fact that they are just not being *done* by the majority of cachers. People are voting with their feet! Secondly, we need to nail the lie that "since most caches being set are level 1 and 2, then theres not a problem"....No. There isn't a "problem" per se, because as someone pointed out, you just don't bother doing the ones you don't like the look of. But I do want to make the point that just because a new cache is set at level 1 or 2 (and the figure for 2 was higher than for 1) it can't *also* happen to be one of the awkward squad. Take an example cache which has, say, 15 clues to find from the fronts of buildings around a town. There is nothing "difficult" in doing any of the 15 and the multi ends up with a rating of 1 or 2, but it does happen to take eight and a half hours to do on foot. This places it within my group of "challenge" caches even though the statisticians among us overlook them and say "oh thats one of the easy ones" See what I mean? Thirdly, I want to make it clear that i am not advocating the banning of these caches, (everyone has a right to lay them if they wish). So please don't think I am. I am not trying to restrict the freedom of people to do and set whatever caches they like. I was simply responding to Pharisee's original point by agreeing with him that yes, these caches do have a low find-rate and I was attempting to explain why. I still stand by my basic reasoning that it is the challenge/puzzle element that is putting the majority off, and yes of course there are still going to be people who do them but it is so sad to see all that effort by a setter, go into placing an awkward cache, sometimes with a great deal of outlay by the owner, only to see no-one or very few people actually attempt it. What a waste of time, effort, and money? ESPECIALLY when at the end of the day the cache setter starts to feel despondent about the fact that no-one is doing his cache! I'm trying to explain to people why this situation is happening and how they can get out of it. If I might be so bold as to lay out my own rules of thumb about how I approach a cache. - If it is likely to take about an hour or less, then do it whatever it is. - If it is likely to take more than two hours it goes in a special "Do I really want to do this cache" category that needs further investigation. - I then take that special pile of caches and look hard at each one, trying to figure out why it will take so long. Is it because of large amounts of walking that could be trimmed by clever use of the car? (I'm limited to about a mile walk in one go because of arthritis) Or sometime split over a couple of trips/days? Another possibility is that a long multi can be partly solved by judicious use of alternate resources (yes, I mean Google, numbnuts!). - Those that come through this vetting as worthy of doing because they take in a lot of historical interest etc may well be tackled in bits, or all at once, but they may equally well be discarded as simply "not worth the aggro". They may have no other interest value to them so I just don't do them. Caches that are likely to take many hours go in a special pile, and these have their printouts burned in a special ceremony which I find hugely satisfying and therapeutic. (What is it with guys and fires?) These are entirley my own rules of thumb, and I humbly submit them only for illustrative purposes. I thought the idea of caching was to find caches. I thought the idea of placing a cache was to have people find it. So when a cache owner has gone out of his way to make sure I can't find his cache, then I asssume he doesn't want it found and am only too happy to oblige. Finally, I have to 'fess up about that log I wrote mentioning a cache that took me several days but which I nevertheless though was worth it in the end. Though my memory is a bit vague, I believe the cache was Masher's "Mission Impossible (beds)" when the great hook with this one was the clever bits of electronic equipment you had to operate all along the way. Guaranteed to appeal to a gadget freak like me! However, that cache was an exception, outstanding in it's own field (literally!). Very few other multis I have done come anywhere close. Sadly it is currently archived. I also happen to be someone who enjoys solving puzzles. But I don't want to combine it with geocaching. I prefer to keep them separate. But that is just *my* preference.

Yes, Kittyhawk, but that is only for premium members. Since I have no use for any of the other facilities that paying the fee gains me, I don't consider it worth it. That is, however, my own decision, I will admit.

The problem is that there are two sorts of people who cache. One lot are people who like to just find caches, and play the game because they see it as an afternoon out, not too strenuous, simple enjoyment. The other lot are puzzlers, who delight in cracking a puzzle, whether it's a brain-teaser, a crossword, or an IQ test. There have always been a fair proportion of these type in any population, but it has to be said that the numbers of this group, when compared to the numbers of the first group, are quite small. I believe the game started out as an invention of the first group, and has to some degree been hijacked by the second, in that an increasing proportion of new caches appear to be of the "puzzle" type. I include here, a lot of multi caches if the gathering of the clues is anything but straightforward. I am NOT just referring strictly to the new GC.COM category of "puzzle cache". I started this game in order to get out and find hidden boxes, after a bit of a walk and maybe a bit of a learn. I did not get into it, or splash out money on my Etrex, so I could spend my time straining my brain and trudging through 21 miles of woods. I admit to having done a few of these type of cache and usually getting very annoyed and frustrated along the way. As I say, I do not see caching as a puzzle-solving sport, yet some people now seem to do little else with it. The other problem is that, of the two groups mentioned above, it is the second group, those who enjoy these extended enhanced puzzle/marathon type caches, who will take the time to set more of the dratted things. They do this because they are either too clever for their own boots, or else they think they are. What they are in effect doing is setting up a new game called "setting difficult caches". They get their main pleasure out of setting the things, not out of doing other people's. I'm just a bit worried that the proliferation of all these twisted, fiendish caches will put off the majority of new cachers who will look at the map in bewilderment trying to spot a standard cache within 50 miles of their own home. Maybe THAT could be a whole new sport in it's own right! As Pharisee has already pointed out, the facts and figures speak for themselves. The number of people who actually *do* these hard caches is quite small. Most people just don't want them, and vote with their feet and keep away from them. My three caches are all very "standard" and all very popular. Go figure! Setting hugely complex and fiendish caches is not funny and not clever. And it's not caching either. Rant over.

Years ago I remember a shampoo that had directions on the label that said "Pour a teaspoonful of the shampoo into the palm of each hand..." Just think about it....

Tuesday is the best for me, definitely won't make wednesday, but any other night can be arranged

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could be. I am not for one minute suggesting that a cache should not attract people to a graveyard, but that when they do, keep the cache just outside the graveyard so they can have the choice as to whether to enter or not. Don't make going into the yard integral to the doing of the cache. Can't see why anyone would object to that!

I expect he means download it to an mp3 player or somesuch. We use the terms upload and download so freely that its sometimes hard to remember that you can only download when the computer you are downloading from is at a higher altitude than your one. Thats the reason you can always download faster than you can upload. The electrons in the wire naturally flow downhill more easily.

Ah, not a wednesday for me. I'm not available on wednesdays. But the other nights that week are all fine by me. I would suggest tuesday (19th) since it is still midweek, yet earlier rather than later, which is better for being quieter. Thursday is when places tend to start getting busier nights towards the weekend.

I don't like caching in a graveyard. I do it, but under protest, when it is part of a multi that I wasn't previously aware of. I don't believe that graveyards are the place to play a game. I don't mind if the cache owner says something like "Take a look in the local graveyard while you are passing, some of the inscriptions are very moving". But hiding a cache or a micro in one is something I don't like. Using information from a gravestone I also don't liek since this is still "playing" a game on consecrated ground. I'm quite happy to use information from elsewhere in a church itself (eg "How many stained glass windows in the north wall of the nave?" But to me a church is not quite the same as a graveyard. I think people expect to be left alone in a graveyard. If someone locally famous is buried innside a church, then by definition permission has been given to walk all over them without regard to them.

Those of you who use a current version of Nero Burning Rom to burn your Cds have already got a fantastic recording system built in which also allows you to clean up the subsequent recording and split it into tracks etc. Under the Nero submenu on your start menu, look for nero SoundTrax. Then once in, look under tools>>wizards, and there is a Tape-to-CD wizard. I mean, how much easier do you want them to make it?!

Put me on the list.

OK then someone needs to suggest a more central location, that is quiet and doesn't cost anything. There is a beefeater place that has a decent bar next to the Garden centre opposite the Xcape building in CMK. On a weekday night its probably quite quiet and there is plenty of parking right next to it.. Kiwigary, since this is the first MK meet, then there is no history to compare with in terms of whether we do caches at the same time or not. So we write the rules as we go along. Personally I would say at the moment probably not since the evenings are still quite short, but later in the summer when the light holds till after 10pm, some might well decide to do a nearby cache at the same time as meeting up. Station X is one that needs to be paid to get into. It is also one I have done (twice! ... well, I mean visited twice) and I have been to the Park nearly 10 times in its history. The Park is fantastic in its own right, so feel free to fix up a joint venture if you like, but I won't be there. Indeed having me there might be thought of as cheating! I would honestly suggest to anyone thinking about going to Bletchley Park to make it a whole day not just an afternoon. There is *so* much to do there you will need it, I promise!

There is a pub in the middle of Milton Keynes Village which is quite good, with outside seating if it is warm and cosy inside if not. It seems a fitting starting point for a Milton Keynes local get-together. I suggest a weekday evening when it's quieter than a rowdy weekend. Oh did I mention its right by one of my caches? ooops!

Every now and then I have to stop caching so I can go out and actually earn some more money...

I believe the reason people on here cracked this one so fast is that we get so much practice while out doing caches. Another reason to carry on the box-hunt!

Blimey so many cachers in Milton Keynes...and I thought I was the only one!

For a long time I was under the impression that a mystery cache was where the owner did not want to divulge what sort of conatiner you were looking for... ..in other words, the cache type was more to do with what container you were looking for.. - A traditional cache had a standard sized box (tupperware/ammo box etc - A multi cache had more than one container to find, often micro caches followed by a normal cache. - A Micro cache was a small container - A Large cache was a container bigger than "standard" size - An Event cache had no container because of it's very nature, so again, you knew what you were looking for. - A locationless cache also had no container due to it's very nature. - A Virtual cache similarly had no conatiner to find. Then there was the mystery cache. It seemed logical to me to assume that this simply meant that you were not to be clued up as to what kind of thing you were looking for. There was no such type as "puzzle cache". There was no such type as "offset cache" Only now do I discover they have changed the furniture round a bit. I like the modified multi cache being simply one with different stages, not necessarily with containers at each stage, and I like the idea of tagging puzzle cache onto mystery, except that now it doesn't relate any more to the type of container. Pity that. But you have to realise that, just like me, the owner of that Amadeus cache probably hasn't realised the cache categories have been altered. If you notice, he placed it about a year ago, when I bet the old categories were still in place. Under those old labels, he has got the cache type right because there was no "puzzle cache" tag for him to use, and it certainly wasn;t any of the other categories then available; Watch the movie, get the coordinates, go out and find the box...What could be more traditional than that!? You can't expect everyone to go back and re-categorise their caches just because someone changes the rules halfway down the road. Maybe if the chap was alerted to the fact that a better category for his cache now existed, he would gladly edit the page, but personally I think its a case of accusing someone of sinning in ignorance.

I thought all money was magnetic.... everyone seems to be attracted to it!

I get irked by the mentality that people should not have their grammar corrected because "they might be dyslexic or poorly educated, and it's not their fault"... ..No-one said is was their fault, yet the fact remains that the way they did something was wrong and can be easily put right. Just because someone makes a mistake because they have not been taught the correct way of doing it, doesn't mean it is not the responsibility of their friends and neighbours to (effectively) carry out the education that they are missing. God knows there are enough things that I wasn't taught and if someone is going to come along who does know those things and teach me them then I am all ears! You can claim poor education to explain why you don't know something *now* but that is no excuse for not allowing someone else to fill in that education so you are then that bit better educated and don't make the same mistake again. It seems so very depressing to think that because you weren't taught something at school, you can go through life never learning it. Now I turn to dyslexia, something I suffer from to some extent in that though I can read and type and compose text, I cannot write (handwriting) without a great deal of difficulty. Such afflictions are in my opinion no different from not being able to cross the road when elderly so it is expected that someone more able and usually younger, should help the person across the road. We don't turn round and say "don't do that because you'll make them feel bad about their age affliction". Look, lets cut the nonsense and just help out by pointing out (gently) alternate and better ways of putting things if the original is blatantly not right. You can usuall tell the difference between a genuine missed typo (a couple of letters switched round) and a complete mess of a sentence because someone was either not thinking or has a genuine problem with composition. I am open to such help and I don't see why anyone else shouldn't be. However such help needs to be diplomatic of course, so in the case of a cache page, I would say email the owner and ask if they really meant to put so-and-so in that way, or did they really mean such-and-such? Lets all learn and move forward together eh?

I'm rather against the imposition of a rule banning the use of OSGB coordinates, since at least two caches I have done actually rely on calculations done using them. Were such a rule to be imposed youwould be forcing at least two dadgum good caches to be archived. I'm sure there are many others but the two I am referring to are Huga's "OSX" and Pharisee's "Triangles, Trigonometry and treachery" although the latter was so treacherous I wouldn't actually mind seeing the thing flung into the evelasting pits of hell but that's another story. To impose such a rule is to effectively remove one entire sphere of cache-solving. If you don't like that sort of cache you don't have to do it, but I would like to have the choice please.

I wouldn't want to encourage people to use these forums. They practice censorship here. I said they *practice* it, I didn't say they actually got it right.....