wmas1960

I personally don't mind it. I think it adds a nice element to some boards that are designed such to handle them effectively or efficiently. Especially when they deal with a topic where photos can be very relevant to a hobby like this. Pictures while geocaching, wild animals, landscapes, scenic photos, benchmarks... would be good. I would suggest though that people limit the size of their attached or embedded photos to about or as close to 320 pixels in dimension or less if possible. That would be 320 x 240 or 240 x 320, 320 x 320... I also use .jpg, 72 dpi and use medium amount of compression (#5 in photoshop when you save). I have seen some posts on boards that are so large that they take forever to load and when they are loaded they add a lot to the size of a tread. Also, they can use up bandwidth and server space if uploaded to a community type site. Therefore I, out of consideration for webmasters and webhosts, post the photos on my own FTP site and link to them or use those url addresses. Also keep in mind that when someone prints out a post the photo should be able to fit on the page and should not burden the reader by using up paper or ink. Remember a printed page is about 750 pixels wide. I don't know the length. 320x240 from my expierience amounts to less than 1/4 of a page. 1/6th or 1/8th, maybe(?). 320 photos should be adequate. There is a board that I read frequently where people post a lot of photos. The images are usually related to the topic of the board and sometimes even intended to actually illustrate the post. Either way, they are relevent to the subject matter. A thread that coincidentally deals with Geocaching is as follows. The Chipboard.com In that thread I was discussing some potential casino related caches with a few other participants. My image that I posted on my posts is actually 350 x 263. It is an off size but was reletively close to the above mentioned guidline. Like I said, whenever possible, I try to keep in this neighborhood.

I don't know??? Not being an attorney I am not sure of that. It is an interesting question to figure out. The situation that the individual(S) photographed are in a public place, say a park, forest... What expectation of privacy do they have when in public? If you use their image in a commercial way, I know there are issues. If you use their images in a bonefied news situation it is, I believe, fair game. I know if they are on their own private property that it would be a violation of their privacy and thus illegal. If they were tresspassing on your property and your hidden security camera photographs them what would your rights be to publish their pictures? You see that done all the time. Does having the camera so hidden on public property, as apposed to on your own property, including stores, banks, businesses..., change the situation from a situation where you were standing there taking pictures and the persons knowingly wandered into your shot? Anyways, The deer camera sounds like a cool idea. Would also help to verify if any damage to or around your cache is being done by wildlife. It would even be cool just to see the people who visit. quote:Originally posted by LarsThorwald: quote: posted August 06, 2002 02:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The second solution has been discussed here in the forums in the past and is called a "deer cam". It is a ruggedized housing that contains a camera and a passive infrared motion sensor. When it detects motion (deer, dogs, humans), it snaps a picture. I would later retrieve the film and post the culprits' pictures in a very prominent place on the web. I'd be pretty careful of this from a constitutional rights/invasion of privacy standpoint. My guess is, as unfair as it may be, it's more legal for someone to trash your cache then it is for you to publicize their picture! Charlie "One should never begin a journey by heading in the wrong direction."

I don't know??? Not being an attorney I am not sure of that. It is an interesting question to figure out. The situation that the individual(S) photographed are in a public place, say a park, forest... What expectation of privacy do they have when in public? If you use their image in a commercial way, I know there are issues. If you use their images in a bonefied news situation it is, I believe, fair game. I know if they are on their own private property that it would be a violation of their privacy and thus illegal. If they were tresspassing on your property and your hidden security camera photographs them what would your rights be to publish their pictures? You see that done all the time. Does having the camera so hidden on public property, as apposed to on your own property, including stores, banks, businesses..., change the situation from a situation where you were standing there taking pictures and the persons knowingly wandered into your shot? Anyways, The deer camera sounds like a cool idea. Would also help to verify if any damage to or around your cache is being done by wildlife. It would even be cool just to see the people who visit. quote:Originally posted by LarsThorwald: quote: posted August 06, 2002 02:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The second solution has been discussed here in the forums in the past and is called a "deer cam". It is a ruggedized housing that contains a camera and a passive infrared motion sensor. When it detects motion (deer, dogs, humans), it snaps a picture. I would later retrieve the film and post the culprits' pictures in a very prominent place on the web. I'd be pretty careful of this from a constitutional rights/invasion of privacy standpoint. My guess is, as unfair as it may be, it's more legal for someone to trash your cache then it is for you to publicize their picture! Charlie "One should never begin a journey by heading in the wrong direction."

I love the halloween pumpkin idea. I would be careful though. First finder might open it up and get a load of shaving cream in your face. Stuffed Squirrel in a Leisure Suite? ROFL

I love the halloween pumpkin idea. I would be careful though. First finder might open it up and get a load of shaving cream in your face. Stuffed Squirrel in a Leisure Suite? ROFL

I would go with the suggestion of contacting the agency that is responsible for the maintenance of the curb. They would know what the composition of the paint is and if there is anything that can safely remove it. I would be afraid that road paint is more perminant than your average paint because it has to wear under the demands of traffic etc. You might also contact the agency that placed the benchmark. NGS(?) DOD(?). You might also contact the state, county or municipal/city, survey department. They may have the contact with the agency responsible for the benchmark. I would leave this one to some official authority to clean up. It is their responsibility and you probably wouldn't want to be responsible if something went wrong.

Most of my hobbies tend to intertwine. Photography Astronomy Astrophotography A friend turned me on to GeoCaching.com I haven't gotten out yet but I already know of a good cache near an observatory in Wisconsin that I want to seek out. There are also a couple benchmarks around there. Yerkes has a great view of Lake Geneva which would make some good pictures. I like taking pictures of wildlife and look forward to taking my digital camera on cache hunts. I bought a Whites Spectrum XLT (metal detector) a few years ago and have enjoyed the brief hunts that I have made with it. Could come in handy with Geocaching and especially Benchmarking. It is stuck down in FLA and I am in ILL. I expected to get back down there last spring but never did with threats of airline strikes... Hopefully I will be back down there before I can find someone to send the detector back. OH, there are more caches down there!!! I spend a great bit of time on the computer reading geocaching.com and some other sites related to hobbies like Casino Collectables. I bowl a couple nites a week and got involved in a league that goes to Las Vegas every June for a tournement. I enjoy collecting everything that isn't nailed down. Especially chips and tokens. Better when I win them rather than have to buy them. Matches, Swizzle Sticks, Mardi Gras Beads, Cocktain Napkins, Hurricanes and the glasses they come in ... I love going to VEGAS and meant to do some caching last June when I was there. I left the clue sheets on the coffee table at home. I have some ideas of trying to incorporate my astrophotography and other photography, maybe bowling, definately casino collectables and some of my other hobbies into themed caches.

Most of my hobbies tend to intertwine. Photography Astronomy Astrophotography A friend turned me on to GeoCaching.com I haven't gotten out yet but I already know of a good cache near an observatory in Wisconsin that I want to seek out. There are also a couple benchmarks around there. Yerkes has a great view of Lake Geneva which would make some good pictures. I like taking pictures of wildlife and look forward to taking my digital camera on cache hunts. I bought a Whites Spectrum XLT (metal detector) a few years ago and have enjoyed the brief hunts that I have made with it. Could come in handy with Geocaching and especially Benchmarking. It is stuck down in FLA and I am in ILL. I expected to get back down there last spring but never did with threats of airline strikes... Hopefully I will be back down there before I can find someone to send the detector back. OH, there are more caches down there!!! I spend a great bit of time on the computer reading geocaching.com and some other sites related to hobbies like Casino Collectables. I bowl a couple nites a week and got involved in a league that goes to Las Vegas every June for a tournement. I enjoy collecting everything that isn't nailed down. Especially chips and tokens. Better when I win them rather than have to buy them. Matches, Swizzle Sticks, Mardi Gras Beads, Cocktain Napkins, Hurricanes and the glasses they come in ... I love going to VEGAS and meant to do some caching last June when I was there. I left the clue sheets on the coffee table at home. I have some ideas of trying to incorporate my astrophotography and other photography, maybe bowling, definately casino collectables and some of my other hobbies into themed caches.

I went out today and found my first benchmark. It wasn't difficult at all since it was only a couple blocks from home and the discription was enough for me to know exactly where it was and what I was looking for. I am sure some of my future hunts will be a little more challenging. Anyways, I took the information in this thread into consideration and evaluated some of them in relation to what I found. First off, the marker that I found was about 4 feet above the ground and on the front of a monument. There was some green oxidation in the letters but surface was nice and dark and had a good patina. There was no need in having to enhance the engravings as they were adequately filled with the green which made most printing stand out. However, the stamping of the date and the ID number were not as easilly read. Might be due to the fact that they are not as deep or wide as the engraving and thus didn't have as much green in them. I also took the photography technique I provided into consideration and noticed that in the NGS guidelines they somewhat suggested the same thing. Do not attempt to potograph from straight on. You will get reflections or glare off the marker. Shoot from a slight side angle. That also helps to have shadows cast off and into leters relative to the camera angle. I shot from slightly asside the marker. I did use a yellow crayon as is suggested by NGS. Contrary to another post here I found it to work pretty good. I also saw one other picture in the recent logs that used yellow crayon as well. I thought it looked OK except the finder didn't clean the excess off the surface. The only thing I can guess is that the problem might have been that the writer who thought it looked bad might have gone overboard with it. You don't need to go too far with it. Just go over the Stampings. You don't really need to go over the engraving as that is pretty much understood anyways. Also the engraving is more accurately imprinted and should deeper, heavier and easier to read anyways. Once you go over the stamping with the crayon use a piece of paper towel and wipe off the surface of the marker. Work the crayon into the stamps. You will notice that it does help the writing stand out a bit.

I am new to all this and just discovered this facet of GPS Hunting. I read the recent article in Monitoring Times, (...Fun With GPS) and am realizing many other things that I can do with my GPS. My zipcode had over 100 benchmarks in a 10 mile area. Considering the area I am sure there are many others out there. In fact, there are 2 within 2 blocks of my house and another 3 or 4 within about a mile and a half. I went out and found my first one today about 2 blocks from home and drove by one that was only about a block away. The closer one had already been logged so I passed on it. I saw it though behind the monument and hidden a little behind some bushes. I have about 5 more that I am going to go out and find as soon as I can and about a dozen others for when I can get time for a little road trip. Today, I just wanted to find one and see what was involved with them. The ones that I have seen are off the ground and in the sides of monuments. The one I actually photographed was right on the front of the structure. You could see it from about 20 yards off. Therefore, they were not much of a challenge and were rather clean and easy to read and photograph. The one that I actually photographed was 1947 and was pretty good. Some of the others are in much less familiar areas and should pose a bit more of a challenge. I haven't gone out for a cache yet as the ones near me are in the Forest Preserves and at least 2 are supposed to be kind of challenging right now with the mud, masquitos and such. I am really excited to start searching for some of them as well. In the mean time I am looking for Benchmarks that might also provide some good subjects to take some pictures of. It seems that many in our area are prominant structures or landmarks. Churches, Control Towers, Tall Buildings... Railroad Crossings. quote:Originally posted by KLifeMom:WOW there are 250 within 10 miles of my home. Guess we'll have something to do on Saturday's! These benchmark hunts will be GREAT in large cities like NYC, where it is difficult to place and sometimes find caches within the proper city. Thanks for the fun! KLifeMom Nashville, Tennessee USA

I am coming into this a little late but I would offer this viewpoint. With experience from military school and jewelry making, I would suggest the following. There seems as though there are two types of deterioration or dirt that are on the benchmarks. The oxidation(green) and maybe tarnish and patina. It might not be bad to remove the green oxidation but DO NOT remove the darkening or patina of the metal. DO NOTbring the benchmark to a high polish. That will expose fresh metal to the environment that will cause that to oxidize and tarnish and if the next guy does the same thing, you might notice, you will actually be assisting in the deterioration of the metal. Use of metal polishes that may contain some chemicals that can actually cause reactions with the metal can also actually cause a deterioration of the metal. Also some of these polishes actually have fine abrasives in them that will actually remove some metal, making the marker thinner, and expose fresh metal to further deterioration. You should be able to remove any dirt or debris with simple soap and water and a light stroke with a VERY SOFT toothbrush. Lightly brush to remove dirt etc. DO NOT brush hard enough or enough to bring a sheen. That is exposing the metal to further aging. You might consider using the crayon method or MAYBE shoe polish might help some. I would check the contents of the shoe polish though as it can have some solvents in it that might harm the metal. Whether a crayon, which might actually be best, or shoe polish carry a couple different colors. A light color and a Dark color. If you encounter a brass or bronze marker that has turned a deap brown color you migth want to use, say, white wax to make the writing stand out from the natural color of the marker. If on the other hand the marker is a greyish or light color than you might want black or brown to make the writing stand out. A crayon or shoe polish contains wax which may actually help to preserve the finish of the benchmark. That is assuming it doesn't contain an abrasive, solvent or other chemical that can harm or react with the metal. As for the yellow crayon, that may be suggested considering black and white photography or using a filter at the same time. I seem to recall from photography in school that you can make clouds stand out in B/W photos by using a yellow filter. Yellow can change the darkness level of the releif enough to make it stand out on B/W film. With color photography, on the other hand, it might not be as effective. Personally, I think I would use the crayons. Using water and a soft cloth, I would lightly clean the mark to remove grit and debris. Then wipe on the wax (crayon) and wipe it off. THE KEY HERE IS LIGHTLY. That way you will leave the wax in the relief of the marker or around the embossed letters and make them stand out a little. The wax, as I said, MIGHT actually help preserve the marker a little. One other tip that comes to me from my photograpy experience is, You might want to have a flashlight or a reflector of sorts with you. A white piece of cardboard or some foil taped to a piece of board etc. Shine or reflect light onto the marker from a low or flat angle from the side. If light is extreme, from above or straight on, it gets into the markings as well as on the face of the marker illuminating everything evenly, reducing or filling shadows, and minimizing detail. That will cause your image to flatten. Shadows are what give you detail. By going from the side, the light will either stay, somewhat, out of the engravings causing shadows inside them or cast shadows off of embossed or raised lettering and make them stand out in your pictures.

My brother mentioned an article last night in the new Monitoring Times that he was looking at. Titled Having Fun With GPS. He said it mentioned of GeoCaching, Letterboxing, GeoDashing and something to do with Photography and associating GPS Coordinates to your photos. I think he said it was developed by those that founded GeoCaching. I haven't read it yet since he forgot to leave it out for me this morning. I tried the MT website but other than a brief discription of the article they do not post any information. Having Fun with GPS By Anton Ninno and Jim Kuhl Business applications for Global Positioning Satellite data have skyrocketed, but ideas for recreational uses have been equally creative, if not more so. Don't read this article if you aren't prepared to run right out and buy a GPS receiver, or at the very least a topo map and a compass! Here's a great activity to share with the grandkids, but you'll have to get out of the radio shack ... If interested go to your local news stand or library and find the August 2002 issue of Monitoring Times. Thought you folks might be interested. Get out and enjoy the weekend.

I may be wrong but I don't see any problem. I recall reading a thread a few days ago that asked the same question. Have no idea what the thread was. I am new here and was reading all the way back to January so it might have been pretty old. Anyways, I think the gereral concensus might have been it is ok. You might want to put something back if you can to maintain the spirit of the game. I have a recollection that there were situations where the owner had to take things to keep the cache in the existing container. If I were faced with that situation I would try to prioritize things that I take. 1.)inappropriate and garbage (unfortunately I have heard of a few examples of people puting their trash into caches) 2.)junky little things that are excessively cheap or may be used and dirty etc. Then work up to not taking the best stuff. That is what will be best for the fun of finding the cache. I have read many logs and read where people didn't take anything but left 2 things... If that, in fact, does happen a lot I can see how an owner would have to thin the cache from time to time. An exception might be one like a cache that I am thinking of. One that is themed on a specific collecable of which I am an interested collector. In all fairness I would try to avoid going to the cache too frequently to allow others a fair chance at some items but I might want to go back and gather or trade for some of the booty(?). I would be placing a few of my items at the beginning and see if it grows a little. Then I might want to benefit from some of the trading myself. I would put something back for what I take though. Keep it going and turning over that way. In any and all cases It would probably be smart and courteous and interesting to log your activity. If you go to maintain and look in on your cache and find things in it, especially stuff mentioned in the logs, and you take something out post an entry, Took two crushed soda cans, candy bar and plastic charm bracelet. Left a Compass and Flashlight... Or Cache was near overflowing. Took Cracker Jack Prizes, bottle of Jack Daniels... Now there is plenty of room for more fun... Happy Caching quote:Originally posted by J.A.R.S.: quote:Originally posted by Lapaglia:First trip back today to check on my first cache. Learned a few things. I had to fight the temptation to take one of the items because it was cool. Is it bad etiquette for the cache owner to take something from his/her cache? What if they replace it with something equally cool? What if they note it in the log on their geocache page?

I may be wrong but I don't see any problem. I recall reading a thread a few days ago that asked the same question. Have no idea what the thread was. I am new here and was reading all the way back to January so it might have been pretty old. Anyways, I think the gereral concensus might have been it is ok. You might want to put something back if you can to maintain the spirit of the game. I have a recollection that there were situations where the owner had to take things to keep the cache in the existing container. If I were faced with that situation I would try to prioritize things that I take. 1.)inappropriate and garbage (unfortunately I have heard of a few examples of people puting their trash into caches) 2.)junky little things that are excessively cheap or may be used and dirty etc. Then work up to not taking the best stuff. That is what will be best for the fun of finding the cache. I have read many logs and read where people didn't take anything but left 2 things... If that, in fact, does happen a lot I can see how an owner would have to thin the cache from time to time. An exception might be one like a cache that I am thinking of. One that is themed on a specific collecable of which I am an interested collector. In all fairness I would try to avoid going to the cache too frequently to allow others a fair chance at some items but I might want to go back and gather or trade for some of the booty(?). I would be placing a few of my items at the beginning and see if it grows a little. Then I might want to benefit from some of the trading myself. I would put something back for what I take though. Keep it going and turning over that way. In any and all cases It would probably be smart and courteous and interesting to log your activity. If you go to maintain and look in on your cache and find things in it, especially stuff mentioned in the logs, and you take something out post an entry, Took two crushed soda cans, candy bar and plastic charm bracelet. Left a Compass and Flashlight... Or Cache was near overflowing. Took Cracker Jack Prizes, bottle of Jack Daniels... Now there is plenty of room for more fun... Happy Caching quote:Originally posted by J.A.R.S.: quote:Originally posted by Lapaglia:First trip back today to check on my first cache. Learned a few things. I had to fight the temptation to take one of the items because it was cool. Is it bad etiquette for the cache owner to take something from his/her cache? What if they replace it with something equally cool? What if they note it in the log on their geocache page?

I was just reading a thread about a guy that got stopped and taken in by Campus Security while hunting a cache on a college campus. They appearently had been investigating some reports of suspicious activity and were monitoring an area, not knowing about the cache. They observed a cacher poking around and nabbed him and the cache. You might wan't to read that thread before you commmit to this. First off I would contact the university and let them know of your desires. They may have concerns about people going through campus from outside the university and accross the country. For the privacy, safety and security of the students, faculty and staff they may not want such access to the general public. It has been over 15 years since my college days but back then, the university I attended was pretty picky and serious about their protection of the students. Around dormatories might be an out of bounds and certain academic buildings and libraries may be of concern. It might not be worth it's effort. Now, if you are a student and are placing these for students only and are publishing their locations on a forum that students, faculty and staff only have access to than there may be fewer concerns. It was mentioned several times in the previous thread about a possible concern in the wake of all the recent kidnappings etc. that the university may be especially concerned of strangers poking around the campus. The other thread was listed under General. I can't remember the subject title but It should be recognizable. quote:Originally posted by Kite & Hawkeye:Now that Hawkeye and I have found about twenty caches, I'm getting really interested in placing one of our own. Cache saturation is pretty high in San Diego, and I want to be careful to do something different/interesting. We live and work near a college campus that has some interesting places; there are two caches already on campus, about a third of a mile from one another. I found a site I like that's .7 miles from the closest cache. After that, though, I got ambitious, thinking it might be fun to do a multicache, because I know another interesting feature on campus that could possibly hide a microcache with coordinates, and I could tie the two together with a theme. The problem? The microcache spot I have in mind is very close to http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=9712. The cache in question is somewhat unusual in that it's inside a building. The coordinates given are for the front door; the cache itself is hidden in a book on the 8th floor. The micro spot I'm looking at is outside the building, and highlights an area that you'd never encounter when looking for the existing cache. But, if one's looking at the two sets of coordinates, it seems that the caches are only about 250 feet apart. I wouldn't persist, but I think the spot I'm looking at is really nifty. Plus, it'd just be the first stage of a multicache. What should I do? Would you expect the cache to be rejected if I submit it as-is, because it appears to be too close to the other one? Should I spare myself the heartache and just go for the single cache?

OOPS, Left that end opened. In closing whether intentionally extreme and sarchastic or whatever, your comment, If an individual wants to tote a gun when they hike, think all rangers are eco-Nazi fascists, and view any form of regulation of Geocaching on public land as un-American. So be it, it is (thankfully) a free country. But, if that is the collective 'voice' of the sport. Get used to getting the boot from parks... I don't think that is anywhere near the majority feelings that I have seen written. Regarding, all rangers are eco-Nazi fascists I never heard any such sentiment. I heard mention of one person as being antagonistic and unprofessional and some as being of an attitude of just ban it rather than deal with it and all the bureaucracy and red tape. But, I have heard much praise about other rangers and land stewards who have dealt with the issues with proper suggestions, warnings, notices... Always be careful of the use of words like All Re: your comment, tote a gun when they hike I already addressed this. I really didn't get the impression that that many cachers do this. Regarding: any form of regulation of Geocaching on public land as un-American. Most of what I have been reading is an enthusiasm of many about sitting down with these people and coming to an understanding of everyones desires and needs and concerns and other issues. A lot of people get empassioned about their views and sometimes get sarchastic and deliberately extreme with their statements. Sometimes it is part of sparking and stimulating the debate. Other times it is somebody venting off some steam in a rant. Mostly though I think your comments show the participants in this hobby, maybe intentially, maybe not, in a worst light. You may be trying to make some point but I think it can be misconstrued to indicate the true feelings of GeoCachers. I just feel that as a whole I have not picked up that sentiment. I have gone way too long now so I will end. That is my $1.50 on this I have ranted, vented.... Later all.

OOPS, Left that end opened. In closing whether intentionally extreme and sarchastic or whatever, your comment, If an individual wants to tote a gun when they hike, think all rangers are eco-Nazi fascists, and view any form of regulation of Geocaching on public land as un-American. So be it, it is (thankfully) a free country. But, if that is the collective 'voice' of the sport. Get used to getting the boot from parks... I don't think that is anywhere near the majority feelings that I have seen written. Regarding, all rangers are eco-Nazi fascists I never heard any such sentiment. I heard mention of one person as being antagonistic and unprofessional and some as being of an attitude of just ban it rather than deal with it and all the bureaucracy and red tape. But, I have heard much praise about other rangers and land stewards who have dealt with the issues with proper suggestions, warnings, notices... Always be careful of the use of words like All Re: your comment, tote a gun when they hike I already addressed this. I really didn't get the impression that that many cachers do this. Regarding: any form of regulation of Geocaching on public land as un-American. Most of what I have been reading is an enthusiasm of many about sitting down with these people and coming to an understanding of everyones desires and needs and concerns and other issues. A lot of people get empassioned about their views and sometimes get sarchastic and deliberately extreme with their statements. Sometimes it is part of sparking and stimulating the debate. Other times it is somebody venting off some steam in a rant. Mostly though I think your comments show the participants in this hobby, maybe intentially, maybe not, in a worst light. You may be trying to make some point but I think it can be misconstrued to indicate the true feelings of GeoCachers. I just feel that as a whole I have not picked up that sentiment. I have gone way too long now so I will end. That is my $1.50 on this I have ranted, vented.... Later all.

quote: Having watched access come up for a number of sports/activities, I've come to the conclussion that the same arguments come up over and over. The lamest, in my opinion, is the flag waving, "our" land, doing what we please with natural resources is an American Tradition rant...SNIPPED Your post has pompted a lot of thoughts about this issue. Maybe too many to actually address them all or coherently remember to mention them all. What I would like to add here is that first off GeoCaching really, if done properly, does not actually involve any other activity than those that are already permitted. When you discuss the issue of limited budgets to address the concerns of all users you seem to not realize that GeoCachers are basically, Bicyclists, Rock Climbers, ATVers, Hikers, X-Country Skiiers... We engage in the same activities that the people who seek to ban us engage in. If they ban us from the forest lands than by all rights they should ban all those people engaging in the same activities. The difference is just that we are using our activities to not just go through the park or wilderness but, like birdwatchers, animal watchers and photographers, we are using that activity as a means to a goal. Whats to say that those trails that we get blamed for are actually caching trails. Could they be other hikers, birdwatchers, photographers, skiiers, bicyclists... or other users of the parks bushwhacking and trying to cut a shortcut or get to a more secluded spot for their questionable activities such as use and manufacture of controlled substances, sexual activity... or to a bird they want to get closer to or a wild animal that they want to photograph more close up... If the Caches are placed near the trails there shouldn't be a need for "Bushwhacking". I do agree here that we should work to not be unreasonable with our placement of our caches. We should be somewhat aware of the eco sensitivities that exist and always seek the path of least impact to get to our prizes. I am really concerned that there is so much emphasis about the impact of geocaching on the environment or the images of the forest lands but there doesn't seem to be mention of the same impact by hiking, biking and the other activities like ATVs and Snowmobiles that seem to be allowed and cause more of an impact on the land. Also the issue as presented in another thread about offensive gay activities around the parks where families and children might encounter these people. How much is being done about that activity in the parks or is it considered permissable and welcome? I will point out in fairness that it is not just gay activities that should be emphasized here. Hetero activities are equally inappropriate in public parks and forests. "GET A ROOM" You mention the disdain for parks officials. I haven't really noticed that much of that. I am new here but I have been reading a lot of these threads. I like to be well informed. I would point out the posts of that tone are really done by a few people, in a given thread, and are repeated by them over and over. Thus giving the impression that it is a widely held opinion. Also some of the mention are quotes to those people. When you actually read all the posts and give attention to who the authors are, I believe it is a majority view that we need to work WITH these people and welcome those dialogs. There was one thread where even I addressed my attitude toward many city, state county and federal employees as being arrogant, power hungry, hacks. I do not intend to infer that all are that way but with my experience as a legal assistant where I had to file documents, applications, forms, motions and pleadings I did find some attitudes. Most of these derogatory posts, primarily, originate from writers who had a specific confrontation or pertain to specific people who like one individual in MN that posted an entry in a log that at the least was antagonistic, arrogant, offensive and UNPROFESSIONAL. With several examples of rangers and other land managers offering clear reasons for their action, notifying the owner that the cache was pulled and is being held and can be claimed and welcoming positive input and dialog, I think most of us realize that there are people out there who are welcoming of some positive constructive debate and input and we are more than willing to work with them to address their issues and concerns. As for the comment about

quote: Having watched access come up for a number of sports/activities, I've come to the conclussion that the same arguments come up over and over. The lamest, in my opinion, is the flag waving, "our" land, doing what we please with natural resources is an American Tradition rant...SNIPPED Your post has pompted a lot of thoughts about this issue. Maybe too many to actually address them all or coherently remember to mention them all. What I would like to add here is that first off GeoCaching really, if done properly, does not actually involve any other activity than those that are already permitted. When you discuss the issue of limited budgets to address the concerns of all users you seem to not realize that GeoCachers are basically, Bicyclists, Rock Climbers, ATVers, Hikers, X-Country Skiiers... We engage in the same activities that the people who seek to ban us engage in. If they ban us from the forest lands than by all rights they should ban all those people engaging in the same activities. The difference is just that we are using our activities to not just go through the park or wilderness but, like birdwatchers, animal watchers and photographers, we are using that activity as a means to a goal. Whats to say that those trails that we get blamed for are actually caching trails. Could they be other hikers, birdwatchers, photographers, skiiers, bicyclists... or other users of the parks bushwhacking and trying to cut a shortcut or get to a more secluded spot for their questionable activities such as use and manufacture of controlled substances, sexual activity... or to a bird they want to get closer to or a wild animal that they want to photograph more close up... If the Caches are placed near the trails there shouldn't be a need for "Bushwhacking". I do agree here that we should work to not be unreasonable with our placement of our caches. We should be somewhat aware of the eco sensitivities that exist and always seek the path of least impact to get to our prizes. I am really concerned that there is so much emphasis about the impact of geocaching on the environment or the images of the forest lands but there doesn't seem to be mention of the same impact by hiking, biking and the other activities like ATVs and Snowmobiles that seem to be allowed and cause more of an impact on the land. Also the issue as presented in another thread about offensive gay activities around the parks where families and children might encounter these people. How much is being done about that activity in the parks or is it considered permissable and welcome? I will point out in fairness that it is not just gay activities that should be emphasized here. Hetero activities are equally inappropriate in public parks and forests. "GET A ROOM" You mention the disdain for parks officials. I haven't really noticed that much of that. I am new here but I have been reading a lot of these threads. I like to be well informed. I would point out the posts of that tone are really done by a few people, in a given thread, and are repeated by them over and over. Thus giving the impression that it is a widely held opinion. Also some of the mention are quotes to those people. When you actually read all the posts and give attention to who the authors are, I believe it is a majority view that we need to work WITH these people and welcome those dialogs. There was one thread where even I addressed my attitude toward many city, state county and federal employees as being arrogant, power hungry, hacks. I do not intend to infer that all are that way but with my experience as a legal assistant where I had to file documents, applications, forms, motions and pleadings I did find some attitudes. Most of these derogatory posts, primarily, originate from writers who had a specific confrontation or pertain to specific people who like one individual in MN that posted an entry in a log that at the least was antagonistic, arrogant, offensive and UNPROFESSIONAL. With several examples of rangers and other land managers offering clear reasons for their action, notifying the owner that the cache was pulled and is being held and can be claimed and welcoming positive input and dialog, I think most of us realize that there are people out there who are welcoming of some positive constructive debate and input and we are more than willing to work with them to address their issues and concerns. As for the comment about

Asside from the little pets.com dog sitting on my TV, What the Heck is a Sock Puppet? I am new here and haven't heard that term before in relationship to it's appearant meaning. I have heard of Troll and yes, I do try not to feed them. Thank you for enlightening me.

I started re-reading my post and noticed something that I inadvertently omitted. I said, Especially considering that the writer of the log entries was open to further consideration and input from his staff. That should read, Especially considering that the writer of the log entries SEEMED TO BE open to further consideration and input from his staff and then the geocacher at a future date. Thus, keeping the channels for dialog open. This should be seen as a contrast to the MN letters where the writer seemed to be of the attitude that. I have the power, I am right If you don't like it TOUGH thus pi$$ing off taxpaying citizens and burning bridges of dialog off with people who might actually turn out to be some of the environments best advocates and allies. Remember, "CACHE IN TRASH OUT" ... quote:Originally posted by wmas1960:I don't know how people feel of double posting but this or a link to it might be valuable in the thread about the "Removed Cache in MN". In that thread the issue is an inflamatory, demeaning and antagonistic log entry by a parks staff member. As was mentioned, these are examples of professional and reasonable notices intended to deal with and correct some concerns. Especially considering that the writer of the log entries was open to further consideration and input from his staff. I am noticing a lot of accounts in these threads about positive constructive commentary from Rangers and Land Managers. Hopefully the MN incident is highly isolated. The only concern I had, reading the FLA logs is that the official that posted the entries seems to be a little harsh on the disposal and removal of caches, in the future, and the posting of future notices. I think a more constructive and responsible tact for the process would be, at least for a while till word gets out, to have a form letter that can be quickly and efficiently posted to the log of any found cache that is properly identified and Offer the owner a reasonable time to claim the cache, 10, 30 days or so. After an appropriate grace period here it might be appropriate to then issue fines to repeat offenders of the rules or policies published and enacted by the parks or wilderness areas and their governing authorities. Posting of such notices helps everyone involved. A.) it helps the owner to know his cache has been retreaved and why. It also informs him that it is being held and where. And, it helps to spread the word of what responsibilities that an owner of a cache has for locating, registering and maintaining his/her cache. B.) It helps other cache seekers to know that the cache has been removed and saves them the trouble of looking for it. And, C.) It helps to protect the environment in question by stopping of the future seeking of caches that aren't there. A situation that could actually lead to further damage to the environment. quote:Originally posted by Doombot!:http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=16528 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=22320 At least these guys seem more reasonable than most from around the country. Doombot!

I don't know how people feel of double posting but this or a link to it might be valuable in the thread about the "Removed Cache in MN". In that thread the issue is an inflamatory, demeaning and antagonistic log entry by a parks staff member. As was mentioned, these are examples of professional and reasonable notices intended to deal with and correct some concerns. Especially considering that the writer of the log entries was open to further consideration and input from his staff. I am noticing a lot of accounts in these threads about positive constructive commentary from Rangers and Land Managers. Hopefully the MN incident is highly isolated. The only concern I had, reading the FLA logs is that the official that posted the entries seems to be a little harsh on the disposal and removal of caches, in the future, and the posting of future notices. I think a more constructive and responsible tact for the process would be, at least for a while till word gets out, to have a form letter that can be quickly and efficiently posted to the log of any found cache that is properly identified and Offer the owner a reasonable time to claim the cache, 10, 30 days or so. After an appropriate grace period here it might be appropriate to then issue fines to repeat offenders of the rules or policies published and enacted by the parks or wilderness areas and their governing authorities. Posting of such notices helps everyone involved. A.) it helps the owner to know his cache has been retreaved and why. It also informs him that it is being held and where. And, it helps to spread the word of what responsibilities that an owner of a cache has for locating, registering and maintaining his/her cache. B.) It helps other cache seekers to know that the cache has been removed and saves them the trouble of looking for it. And, C.) It helps to protect the environment in question by stopping of the future seeking of caches that aren't there. A situation that could actually lead to further damage to the environment. quote:Originally posted by Doombot!:http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=16528 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=22320 At least these guys seem more reasonable than most from around the country. Doombot!

I just checked and the poll is still there. Upper Right to the article. It says, "What Do You Think?" Click that and a popup window will open with the poll. You will have to answer the question to see the results. I don't want to sway your opinion but be careful and note that the way the question is worded it is YES, you WANT Geocaching BANNEDand NO, you want Geocaching to be ALLOWED. quote:Originally posted by Da Rebel:You don't suppose the poll wasn't going the way they wanted it to and they pulled it? Nah, that couldn't happen, could it? ----------- "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

I just checked and the poll is still there. Upper Right to the article. It says, "What Do You Think?" Click that and a popup window will open with the poll. You will have to answer the question to see the results. I don't want to sway your opinion but be careful and note that the way the question is worded it is YES, you WANT Geocaching BANNEDand NO, you want Geocaching to be ALLOWED. quote:Originally posted by Da Rebel:You don't suppose the poll wasn't going the way they wanted it to and they pulled it? Nah, that couldn't happen, could it? ----------- "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain

I would not be embarassed either or even apologetic for anything. You may just have been engaging in an activity that Campus Police and certain people on campus may not understand. It has been a long time since I was a college student but it sounds to me like campus police noticed suspicious activity or somebody reported traffic or activity that they didn't understand and thought suspicious. They may have just been keeping an eye out to find out what was going on and you are the one that they zeroed in on. The cache may have been turned over to a dean or somebody and the owner has probably been notified. At least I hope that is the case. Ideally that person, A fellow student, faculty member... or somebody should have a dialog with the university and iron out this issue explaining what it is about. Seeing how harmless, I assume there was no contriband or other objectionable items in the cache, the situation is they will probably learn something positive about a new diversion that students are engaging in on campus. Of course, regarding items in the cache, You never know with college kids what they might put in there. Maybe, once they are informed of what GeoCaching is all about there might need to be some consideration of some rules that may need to be followed. On a college campus some places can be a little different than on typical public lands. Areas around dormatories and libraries or other buildings and locations might be of concern to the university. Also, it might be one thing if it is students that are engaging in caching at the site but if strangers from in town or accross the country are wandering through, there may be more sensitivity. As I recall about my years at a State University, the administration and staff often had a somewhat extreme and, sometimes, oversensitive concern for the privacy, safety and well being of their students. Like I said, hopefully this is just the beginning of an understanding. With the youth of this game, we will probably be noticing a lot more incidents like yours around towns, parks, cities, beaches etc. as those who don't know what we are doing learn what this is all about. Some officials might not know if we are spies hiding payoffs and picking up messages, druggies hiding stashes or whatever. By the nature of the game we should realize that we are engaging in the very same acts as the above mentioned, and other possible, examples. It is all in our intent and purpose that is different. Until more people know about GeoCaching and understand it as a game and outdoor sport or activity, A puzzle or challenge, TREASURE HUNTING, we are bound to attract the suspicions and attention of others. I haven't gotten out to look for my first cache yet but I already get some of those looks from people who I tell about it. Many of them think I am nuts.