Gamaliel

What baffles me is about late loggers is how do you keep track of this stuff so long? To me, that seems like more work than logging it right away. For me, logging is super easy because my gps keeps track of my finds. If I waited to log, I'd have to record that information somehow before I loaded new caches into it, and if I'm doing that, I might as well just log them. Do you keep computer files? A paper list? I'd lose both in a month or two. Memory? Doubtful.

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with the more important issue in that log - a person representing himself as a LEO who is clearly not.

I don't follow short links from strangers. Could you post a full URL? That is the full URL. Imgur is an image hosting website, not a URL shortener. I'd just post the image, but it is large and I don't know how to resize images in forum posts.

The oddest thing was a waffle iron, but that was in the bushes near an urban ammo can. I found a pleasant hobo camped out next to an old cemetery in the woods behind a Best Western.

Relevant and amusing.

Again, I don't think people are really listening to the argument here. Those that do play the FTF game (and I am no longer one of them) of course should be prepared for disappointment, and I think by and large they are. You'd have to be either new to it or have an odd disposition to not be prepared for disappointment. It's like baseball - even a first class player misses two thirds of the time at bat. This is all well-known and obvious to cachers and the fact that people keep bringing it up makes me think people really don't understand the objections or don't want to. addisonbr says above and I think this is dead on. I certainly don't expect anything when it comes to this issue or anything else in geocaching, so I have no need to recalibrate my expectations, thanks. I file it away with other minor geocaching gripes: unlogged trackables, full or wet logs, poor cache maintenance, poorly placed caches, bad coords, etc. I'm certainly guilty of some of those myself. But when I am, I know I'm guilty and I admit it, and I don't come up with tortured excuses or justifications for interfering with someone else's caching experience.

There is a difference between "drop everything" and "within a reasonable but short amount of time since you're already spending time on this hobby anyway today so why not spend one or two minutes more and log the cache". The most frustrating thing about this difference of opinion is not that the difference exists, but that the anti-FTF crowd keeps pretending that FTF hounds want you to immediately drop your GPS on the spot and leave your dogs and kids in the woods and drive home to log a cache. I don't think writing a short log that takes about 30 seconds of your time and returning later to write your hand-crafted unique Nobel Prize winning log is such an onerous expectation. There's any number of reasons to do such a thing. For example, "Oh, hey, saw your cache on fire, nobody go hunt it today cause the fire department has it, write more later".

Can they buy It's Not About The Numbers too?

Nope, we don't. And I wish cachers would me more conscious about those differences and how they affect other people playing the game. When I place a cache I try to think about how different types of cachers would approach it and design my hide accordingly. When I log a cache I think about the things I noticed that might affect the finder after me, even if they didn't affect me because of the way I cache. I don't really get why certain types of cachers are so indignant and obstinate about the way other cachers play the game and insist on deliberately attempting to obstruct how they play that game. And I don't get why some of those cachers make up strange justifications for that behavior instead of just admitting it.

Personally, I tend to have a lot more anarchic views and chafe at the idea that a land manager can tell people what harmless activities they can and can't do on public lands. Groundspeak, a company who has their own public image and is the most visible public representation of geocaching, has to take a different approach. If they ignored NPS rules, then they would appear untrustworthy to non-NPS land managers and the pro-geocaching managers among them would perhaps look less favorably on our sport and introduce more restrictions on their lands. Following the restrictions and letting local volunteers wear down those organizations seems to be the best approach for all concerned and for our public image.

Has anyone ever made the suggestion that someone actually do this?

If you have time to create pocket queries and download gpx files and load them into your gps and go geocaching, then you have time to take a minute and write a quicky log. You have the time, you just choose not to take it. And that's your choice, but let's be honest about the reality of it.

Why do people keep saying things like this? Has anyone ever expressed the expectation that a cacher should stop his caching trip and immediately go home to log a cache?

I don't think it's unreasonable to be courteous to other cachers and to expect the same of them. I don't play the FTF game anymore, but on the rare occasions I get one I make sure to log it asap, and I don't think it's some terrible burden for others to do so as well.

Yes, this. I'm still amazed that a vocal minority are so opposed to and offended by this simple and courteous idea.

As a big fan of challenge caches, I don't have a problem with replacing the cache with a souvenir if it is done this way. Custom owner-designed souvenir icons would be cool too. It would be a big help to me since I seem to lose interest in the challenge after I complete it but before I go find the challenge cache itself.

Challenges give me something to do, new places to go, ideas for where to go caching. Sometimes I don't even bother finding the cache once I complete a challenge - I think I'm about a year overdue in finding two local-ish challenge caches. People seem to like them. Some don't, but I don't see why this dislike requires prohibition. Most every cache type is abused in some fashion according to somebody. So?

You've included a lot of extraneous information. The case needs to be very simple: Is the cache within the official park boundary? Is there a clear physical barrier between the cache and the railroad tracks? If you can prove the answer is yes to both, then I'm sure your cache will be quickly published.

If you like candy, there's a Russell Stover outlet store. Look for GCNT92.

A waffle iron. In the shrubbery of an urban parking lot.

Get a bunch of trusted local cachers to drop their inventories in a whole bunch of local caches, but only on the website. Waste his time hunting down TBs and coins that aren't there. The thief might get frustrated at being unable to steal so many goodies.

You might want to check out http://www.nefga.com/

When I see that, I think of....

A small requirement - something like 1 week and/or 5 finds - might serve as a speed bump. Won't be a serious obstacle to cachers but might make the more casual ones think and prevent the most egregious cases of hide and run.

Never posted a picture of myself with a virt. My hand holding my gps (here's me in the Everglades) has always sufficed and I've never had an issue with a cache owner. Saw one rant on an earthcache about how we had to post face pics and not hand/gps pics and skipped that one, but I've racked up 37 virts with no problem.