MIBugTroop

Sorry, don't know how to just make a slick hyperlink to another board. Since I haven't seen any reference to it in this topic, some of you may not be aware that in Pennsylvania, the DCNR has put a registration requirement for caches on state park and forrest land. Go to the "Northeast" discussion board for all the info. Anyway, with input from Geocachers, the guidelines are looking like the following. Don't be surprised to see this spread accross the courtry in some form or another. (Note, it is still preliminary.) ---From Quest Master posted 8/2/2002 -------- Draft Forms Mr. Meade has provided me with the latest DRAFT of the new geocaching policy for state parks and the latest DRAFT of the Geocache Identification Form. I am very pleased that they have removed the legal stuff . I emailed him to ask about the "Cache ID Number" but he didn't get back to me yet. We'll probably have to wait until Monday to find out what they mean by this. I am concerned that they may be talking about the geocaching.com waypoint number which wouldn't work since it cannot be known until the cache is listed on the website. Another possibility is a number assigned by the park managers. I guess that we would be required to get a number from the park office in advance so that we could write it on the cache container before we hide it in the park. It probably is not wise to speculate. We'll just have to wait and see what he says. In the meantime, he has said that they will be meeting again early next week to discuss this further. Speak now or forever hold your peace! Here are the documents: Did I mention that these are just a DRAFT. This means that NOBODY should be printing them out and sending them in. DRAFT DCNR - Bureau of State Parks Geocaching Guidelines BACKGROUND Geocaching has become a new endeavor on Pennsylvania’s state park and forest lands. The idea is to have individuals set up caches all over the state and share the locations of these caches and the coordinates on the internet. Global Positioning System (GPS) users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide a wide variety of cache items. The cache visitor is asked to leave an item in the cache for the one they remove. The Geocache community uses the Internet extensively for posting cache locations. The following guidelines apply to all geocaches on state park land: ? Placement of geocaches on lands administered by the DCNR - Bureau of State Parks requires written authorization of the Park Manager or designee. This authorization will be considered through a review process, which insures its location is compatible with other park activities. ? A geocache contact person responsible for necessary upkeep of the site must be identified prior to approval by the Park Manager or designee. ? There should be no earth disturbance or vegetative impact to any approved site. Nor should the cache be readily discernable by the general public. ? Cache(s) shall not be placed in a military ammo box or PVC pipe. A transparent type container is required (Tupperware, Gladware, Pretzel Barrel, etc.) ? Cache ID number must be clearly visible on the exterior of all geocache containers. The ID number should be placed on container(s) using a permanent type marker or weatherproof tag. ? The cache may not be placed within Natural Areas or Wild Plant Sanctuaries, or on stream banks, riparian zones, wetlands, prehistoric and historic archaeological sites, exemplary natural communities, ecologically sensitive areas, unique geological features, Dam structures, or unsafe areas. ? A cache may remain at the approved site for no more than five years at which time it must be removed, the site restored to its original condition, and the Park Manager informed in writing of the removal. This will control cache abandonment and assist in preventing renegade trail development to the site. ? Unauthorized geocaches on state park lands will be removed and treated as abandoned property, and the responsible person may be cited for littering. ? Responsible party shall delete site location(s) from all publications and/or website(s) within seven days of removal. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION & NATURAL RESOURCES BUREAU OF STATE PARKS GEOCACHE IDENTIFICATION FORM This agreement is made this _____ day of _____________________, by and between the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Bureau of State Parks (”DEPARTMENT”) and _____________________________ (“RESPONSIBLE PARTY”). The RESPONSIBLE PARTY desires to place a geocache at the following location(s) in ________________________________________ State Park: SITE NAME (if any): ___________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _________________________________________________ COUNTY: ___________________________________________________ LATITUDE: __________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ________________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_________________________ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): __________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: ________________________________________________ COUNTY: __________________________________________________ LATITUDE: _________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: _______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)________________________ __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): _________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _______________________________________________ COUNTY: _________________________________________________ LATITUDE: ________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_______________________ _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): _________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _______________________________________________ COUNTY: _________________________________________________ LATITUDE: ________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_______________________ _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ The DEPARTMENT is willing to permit the RESPONSIBLE PARTY to place the above geocache(s), subject to the following conditions: 1. Geocache container description (size, color, container, material): ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ 2. This permission is in effect for the period beginning _______________ through _____________________ (not to exceed 5 years); however, the permission may be revoked at any time by the DEPARTMENT acting through a Park Manager or designee. 3. REPONSIBLE PARTY is not permitted to do the following: a. Earth disturbance or vegetative impact to the approved geocache site. b. Move or alter approved geocache location. c. Allow the insertion of hazardous or pornographic materials in the geocache container. d. Place cache(s) on a Dam structure d. Other (state “no other conditions” or list other conditions): ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ 4. The cache may not be placed within Natural Areas or Wild Plant Sanctuaries, or on stream banks, riparian zones, wetlands, prehistoric and historic archaeological sites, exemplary natural communities, ecologically sensitive areas, unique geological features, Dam structures, or unsafe areas. 5. Park Manager or designee shall be notified by the RESPONSIBLE PARTY when the cache is moved or removed. __________________________________ ________________________________ Printed Name of Responsible Party Responsible Party signature ___________________________________ Street ___________________________________ City State Zip (____)_____________________________ Phone Email address ___________________________________ Park Manager or designee date Original – Park Office files Copies to – Regional Park Office, Central Office Operations Section It bears repeating one more time for good measure: These documents are draft versions of the policy and permission form. Don't Use Them! Johnny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 14 | From: Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: April 01, 2001

Sorry, don't know how to just make a slick hyperlink to another board. Since I haven't seen any reference to it in this topic, some of you may not be aware that in Pennsylvania, the DCNR has put a registration requirement for caches on state park and forrest land. Go to the "Northeast" discussion board for all the info. Anyway, with input from Geocachers, the guidelines are looking like the following. Don't be surprised to see this spread accross the courtry in some form or another. (Note, it is still preliminary.) ---From Quest Master posted 8/2/2002 -------- Draft Forms Mr. Meade has provided me with the latest DRAFT of the new geocaching policy for state parks and the latest DRAFT of the Geocache Identification Form. I am very pleased that they have removed the legal stuff . I emailed him to ask about the "Cache ID Number" but he didn't get back to me yet. We'll probably have to wait until Monday to find out what they mean by this. I am concerned that they may be talking about the geocaching.com waypoint number which wouldn't work since it cannot be known until the cache is listed on the website. Another possibility is a number assigned by the park managers. I guess that we would be required to get a number from the park office in advance so that we could write it on the cache container before we hide it in the park. It probably is not wise to speculate. We'll just have to wait and see what he says. In the meantime, he has said that they will be meeting again early next week to discuss this further. Speak now or forever hold your peace! Here are the documents: Did I mention that these are just a DRAFT. This means that NOBODY should be printing them out and sending them in. DRAFT DCNR - Bureau of State Parks Geocaching Guidelines BACKGROUND Geocaching has become a new endeavor on Pennsylvania’s state park and forest lands. The idea is to have individuals set up caches all over the state and share the locations of these caches and the coordinates on the internet. Global Positioning System (GPS) users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide a wide variety of cache items. The cache visitor is asked to leave an item in the cache for the one they remove. The Geocache community uses the Internet extensively for posting cache locations. The following guidelines apply to all geocaches on state park land: ? Placement of geocaches on lands administered by the DCNR - Bureau of State Parks requires written authorization of the Park Manager or designee. This authorization will be considered through a review process, which insures its location is compatible with other park activities. ? A geocache contact person responsible for necessary upkeep of the site must be identified prior to approval by the Park Manager or designee. ? There should be no earth disturbance or vegetative impact to any approved site. Nor should the cache be readily discernable by the general public. ? Cache(s) shall not be placed in a military ammo box or PVC pipe. A transparent type container is required (Tupperware, Gladware, Pretzel Barrel, etc.) ? Cache ID number must be clearly visible on the exterior of all geocache containers. The ID number should be placed on container(s) using a permanent type marker or weatherproof tag. ? The cache may not be placed within Natural Areas or Wild Plant Sanctuaries, or on stream banks, riparian zones, wetlands, prehistoric and historic archaeological sites, exemplary natural communities, ecologically sensitive areas, unique geological features, Dam structures, or unsafe areas. ? A cache may remain at the approved site for no more than five years at which time it must be removed, the site restored to its original condition, and the Park Manager informed in writing of the removal. This will control cache abandonment and assist in preventing renegade trail development to the site. ? Unauthorized geocaches on state park lands will be removed and treated as abandoned property, and the responsible person may be cited for littering. ? Responsible party shall delete site location(s) from all publications and/or website(s) within seven days of removal. COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION & NATURAL RESOURCES BUREAU OF STATE PARKS GEOCACHE IDENTIFICATION FORM This agreement is made this _____ day of _____________________, by and between the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Bureau of State Parks (”DEPARTMENT”) and _____________________________ (“RESPONSIBLE PARTY”). The RESPONSIBLE PARTY desires to place a geocache at the following location(s) in ________________________________________ State Park: SITE NAME (if any): ___________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _________________________________________________ COUNTY: ___________________________________________________ LATITUDE: __________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ________________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_________________________ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): __________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: ________________________________________________ COUNTY: __________________________________________________ LATITUDE: _________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: _______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)________________________ __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): _________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _______________________________________________ COUNTY: _________________________________________________ LATITUDE: ________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_______________________ _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ SITE NAME (if any): _________________________________________ ID # _______________ TOWNSHIP: _______________________________________________ COUNTY: _________________________________________________ LATITUDE: ________________________________________________ LONGITUDE: ______________________________________________ ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS (if needed)_______________________ _________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________ The DEPARTMENT is willing to permit the RESPONSIBLE PARTY to place the above geocache(s), subject to the following conditions: 1. Geocache container description (size, color, container, material): ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ 2. This permission is in effect for the period beginning _______________ through _____________________ (not to exceed 5 years); however, the permission may be revoked at any time by the DEPARTMENT acting through a Park Manager or designee. 3. REPONSIBLE PARTY is not permitted to do the following: a. Earth disturbance or vegetative impact to the approved geocache site. b. Move or alter approved geocache location. c. Allow the insertion of hazardous or pornographic materials in the geocache container. d. Place cache(s) on a Dam structure d. Other (state “no other conditions” or list other conditions): ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ 4. The cache may not be placed within Natural Areas or Wild Plant Sanctuaries, or on stream banks, riparian zones, wetlands, prehistoric and historic archaeological sites, exemplary natural communities, ecologically sensitive areas, unique geological features, Dam structures, or unsafe areas. 5. Park Manager or designee shall be notified by the RESPONSIBLE PARTY when the cache is moved or removed. __________________________________ ________________________________ Printed Name of Responsible Party Responsible Party signature ___________________________________ Street ___________________________________ City State Zip (____)_____________________________ Phone Email address ___________________________________ Park Manager or designee date Original – Park Office files Copies to – Regional Park Office, Central Office Operations Section It bears repeating one more time for good measure: These documents are draft versions of the policy and permission form. Don't Use Them! Johnny -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 14 | From: Greensburg, Pennsylvania | Registered: April 01, 2001

I understand the reluctance about discouraging new cache placers. We recently did our first and waited anxiously for the first finder to log it. Will they like it? Are our coordinates accurate? ect. I would still like some way to sort through multiple listings. How about some sort of categorization by the placer? A standard set of discriptive choices could be selected. As an example, along with terrain difficulty, the placer could also check, - woods, - grassy - rocky - swamp - etc - other - mystery And/Or maybe a list pertaining to the view/experience at or getting to the cache. - vista - woods - activity - historic - water - geologic - other - mystery Any thoughts? The mystery selection in the above for those who simply don't want you to know. PA Bug Troop

Sorry if this has been suggested elsewhere. Looked but couldn't find it. What I would like to see is a rating system for the cache finders. Especially with the density of caches in some areas increasing, I find it hard to hit very many when traveling. I would like to go to the best. Nothing against walking through some local park to find a cache off a plain Jane trail, (I hit them all in my local area), but if I unknowingly missed a fastastic vista because I didn't have the time then that is disappointing. Mapping out caches is a major part of vacation planning for me and is frustrating because I know I will only be able to get to a small percentage. The logs help somewhat but they also can spoil it by giving to much away. What I suggest, along with the terrain and difficulty rating assigned by the cache owner, would be an average rating of say, cache quality, experience, location, ..? What do you think? PA Bug Troop

Buddhavista, What about the travel bug tracking system? Is is just a tag you can get that you can attach to anything. Geocaching can then track it for you, (assuming folks log it.) Packnrat, It is Letterboxing. Check http://www.letterboxing.org/ for more info. PA Bug Troop

Check out the American Eagle Fanny Pack. On sale for $10. It has a web pocket in the main compartment for a phone that fits the Meridian perfectly. Also has straps for water bottles and roome for the cache trinkets. American Eagle fanny pack PA Bug Troop

Great choice in going with the Meridian. I have the Meridian Platinum. When caching with my brother-in-law who had the 76s. I drove with the P on my knee the whole way and never lost fix. He had to hold the 76s to the window and it still was intermitant, and that was on a nice day with no trees close to the car. When we got on some back roads where the trees were a lot closer, he lot fix most of the time. When we got on a two track, trees very close and hanging over the road, he had to open the window and hold it out to get any fix. The meridian on my knee was still doing fine. When we stopped and got out and under tree cover, the 76s gave up. No fix whatsoever. My Meridian led me right to the cache. Yes, there were features on the 76s that I wish the Meridian had but when it comes right down to it, you want a unit that will get you to the cache.

OK I'll weigh in on this one. I did some research and narrowed it down to the Magellan Meridian Platinum and the Etrex Vista. (I don't go for the idea of buying cheap and upgrading.) I went with the Meridian. As fortune would have it, my in-laws have both the Vista and the Garmen Map(?). Here are my impressions. 1) The Meridian beat hands down the Garmen Map. I was able to hold a fix in the car and under trees whild the Garmen lost it completly. Didn't have a chance to compare against the Etrex but Epinions.com gives them poor opinions for reception. 2) The Etrex is great for serious hiking. The small size and finger and thumb buttons are ergonomically nice. However, they would be a bear to operate in a cradle in your car. The Meridian is much better in a cradle as the buttons are clearly marked and on the front. It also can be operated with one hand but the necessary hand position is not as secure so a stumble or near fall may send the thing flying. 3) The Etrex display has better resolution but again it is small. Not good for a car but OK for hiking. The Meridian is still OK for both. 4) Base map detail was about the same. Meridian can have its memory expanded, not the Etrex. 5) Both have electronic compasses. The Meridian has a fuller integration of it in its operation. It also doesn't have to be perfectly level to operate. Theres probably other considerations but those were the main ones that stood out for me.

OK I'll weigh in on this one. I did some research and narrowed it down to the Magellan Meridian Platinum and the Etrex Vista. (I don't go for the idea of buying cheap and upgrading.) I went with the Meridian. As fortune would have it, my in-laws have both the Vista and the Garmen Map(?). Here are my impressions. 1) The Meridian beat hands down the Garmen Map. I was able to hold a fix in the car and under trees whild the Garmen lost it completly. Didn't have a chance to compare against the Etrex but Epinions.com gives them poor opinions for reception. 2) The Etrex is great for serious hiking. The small size and finger and thumb buttons are ergonomically nice. However, they would be a bear to operate in a cradle in your car. The Meridian is much better in a cradle as the buttons are clearly marked and on the front. It also can be operated with one hand but the necessary hand position is not as secure so a stumble or near fall may send the thing flying. 3) The Etrex display has better resolution but again it is small. Not good for a car but OK for hiking. The Meridian is still OK for both. 4) Base map detail was about the same. Meridian can have its memory expanded, not the Etrex. 5) Both have electronic compasses. The Meridian has a fuller integration of it in its operation. It also doesn't have to be perfectly level to operate. Theres probably other considerations but those were the main ones that stood out for me.