elmuyloco5

We currently have a Palm Tungsten Z2 that we use for paperless caching. I'm generally an organized person until it comes to recording addresses and such, so my PDA doesn't see much use outside the caching arena. I've noticed that some people are using ipods to go paperless and I'm interested in finding out just how paperless this is making things. I've seen CacheMagnet and read briefly about it. I don't own an ipod, so I can't try it out. But, before I go buy one, I want to know if CacheMagnet or a combination of it and something else can cover all my wants. 1.I want to be able to download the entire cache description, a few past logs, the hint, and basic info like who hid the cache and what size it was. 2. I want to be able to input text or audio information while away from my computer for inputing my "log" and for recording answers to puzzles and multis as I perform them. Text input is fine, or recording my voice would work too. Can an Ipod do that? Are there limits to the model of Ipod that can perform this (i.e. size requirements and software conflicts)? Also, I haven't really spent alot of time looking at an Ipod, so forgive me if this is a stupid questions.....is there a mini-usb slot on the ipod? If not, can you purchase a cable that fits into the ipod that has one end that is a regular usb connector? Our car stereo has input for a regular sized usb connector and we currently have our music stored on usb sticks. I would like to hook the ipod up to this for music. Thanks!!

My point was to show how your "rule of thumb" could be better applied to not stifle creativity. Where I find issue with your rule is that there are places that you might be able to hide a large container, but that a creative container that requires the cache to be small, might be more interesting and therefore more enjoyable for a whole of people. Take for instance a drive through the mountains. At most spots that you can stop, an ammo can be hidden. But, a smaller more creative container could be alot more fun. Like the staked reflectors that guide you down a road. I've never seen a cache like that in person, but have seen them talked about on the forum. It not only fits in the area, since there are likely more of those along a mountain road, but it's something much more unexpected than an ammo can. I'm not saying that is the perfect container for the spot, but I have yet to read a log for a cache with a clever container (no matter what size that it is) that has been negative. Ours have all been received very well. The point isn't to change your opinion on micros, or anyone else's for that matter. But there are those of us out there that do enjoy a micro. Do we enjoy all micros? Probably not, but that's not a reason to stop hiding them where larger containers should be. I don't want to get into an argument, it's just silly. I like them, you don't. We can still get along. I'm just glad that the actual guidelines allow for the hider to be just as creative as they want to be.....with any size container.

I would agree with you if you changed your rule. I think the above statement even shows that you agree that some change could be made to it. Why not: At the end of the day a good rule of thumb is to use the largest or most creative container the area can reasonably support.

I agree that there is merit to your rule of thumb, however your rule takes out some of the creativity and fun in the hide. The way the guidelines read now, I can choose to create with the container size I would like to for the space that is open for me to hide in. Sometimes one might have the space to hide a large container, but a more cleverly disguised micro would create a fun search in the area. I'm not saying all rules are bad, some have their place and a reason to be put into action. But rules in general stifle creativity. Since micros aren't hurting anyone (and before you bring up the environment, micros don't hurt the environment, people do), I don't see any reason why the site should stifle the creativity of it's members. Infact, if you spoke to TPTB at Groundspeak, I think you'd hear the same thing. There might be some who also do not like micros, but they would probably all tell you that you can filter them out and easily not search for them.

Hiking, camping, snowshoeing, fishing, traveling....and while not a hobby......homeschooling.

We don't have to worry about it. We have three kids that are always running all around, dropping to make snow angels, etc. There's no hope on Earth that people can follow our tracks!

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the 'H' series units use the SiRF Star III chipset not the Garmin chip that is used in the Nuvi and the Colorado. It will be interesting to see how the on road Nuvi's chipset will stand up to off-road use. I am curious if it will have accuracy issues like the Garmin's used to before the 'H' series and the adoption of the SiRF chip. Geocaching in not that big, as geocachers we would like think it is. But I am sure that the automotive, aviation and marine markets are much larger. I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. You can't compare handheld use to auto or aviation use, or for that matter a marine application to a TOPO application. Comparing apples to apples; if you look at the number of people that would buy a handheld TOPO GPSr, the numbers are probably pretty evenly split between backpackers and geocachers (with some industry applications thrown in as well). SO, I would say that in that regard Geocachers are a pretty large part of the target demographic for the TOPO GPSr companies out there. That being said, I think that the Colorado was a great concept, it just fell short of the bar in several areas.

I still think that the PSP would be a fabulous idea. I just wish someone would make some software with precut maps like Delorme has for their GPSr. My issue with the PSP is time. I just don't have enough that I want to sit there and mess with it. Some people do, and that's just fine. It's nice that they have this option. I think the other thing the PSP really needs to work properly (for this purpose, anyway), is some caching software. And if that software can make it paperless, even better. The PSP would be a perfect unit for Wherigo. The DS is limited in sound, like the Colorado, but the PSP has excellent sound capabilities and beautiful video. There's room for all these wants, you just have to find the person who is willing to write the programming for it. As far as it being less rugged, well sure it is. But, that doesn't mean that it can't be a fantastic option for caching. Lots of people use PPCs and they are no more rugged. It depends on the cacher what unit would suit their needs. Since there is a variety of cachers with a variety of needs, there should be a variety of units to suit them.

I can see your frustration, but I would suggest the next time you take out someone new to caching that you look for a cache that is regular to large sized and with a fairly easy difficulty rating. Most people will tell a new person on here to do just that for the first 10 or so caches. It helps you really get the feel of the game/sport and finding hidden items. Then they would be ready for the harder and smaller type containers. I can think of several caches that were a complete blast to us now that we've been caching awhile, but we probably never would have found at the beginning. We actually started caching back in '06 when we lived in Hawaii. We tried for one cache and couldn't find it the 4 times we went out. We didn't know much about caching (shoot, we didn't even know there was a website, we got the coords. off of another forum). We thought we stunk at caching and gave up. Turns out, the cache had been muggled. But, the idea of it still intrigued us so we tried again a year later. If you're friends like the idea behind it, I'm sure they will try again. If they don't, they weren't all that interested to begin with. If you can get them out there again, take them to something easier and aim for the ammo can (lots of caches say that they are specifically ammo cans) so the kiddo can pick from some swag. Who knows, maybe your friend's kids will learn to love the cleverly hidden micro like my kids do.

the new version of GSAK allows a macro to be installed and run that loads up to 1000 waypoints into the notes section of the iPod. 1000 is the limit of the iPod and that number includes child waypoints like parking. I have been using it over a week now and it's great. I am hoping to use GSAK with my new PN-20 so I can keep everything in one application. GSAK also has a macro that creates the find info for my profile so thats another reason I like it. Sorry this is a bit off topic now that we're discussing ipods, but is there also a way to make notes? I know there's a notepad, what about within the imported geocache info? I think the PN-20 will be difficult to enter info, but an ipod is so much smaller than a PDA, and is more useful to us than a PDA as well. I'm not a business person and don't require large address books and something to use the Office type applications on. I'm at home all day and use my computer when I need it. When we're away from home, we're not working so a PDA is nice, but a whole lotta unecessary....ya know?

Here's the requirements for cachemate: Requirements: Palm OS® 3.0 or later Versions for other platforms are also available. CacheMate™ is a database for tracking GPS cache hunts. You can store information about caches or benchmarks, decode hints, and transfer data between CacheMate and the MemoPad application. Registered users can import LOC and GPX formatted XML files, which are available from Geocaching.com. Features: * Sony/HandEra/Palm hi-res support * Palm OS® 5/6 compatibility * Scrollable color "overview" display * Multiple database support * Editable cache type list * Support for the Palm OS® Find system * Import/Export data with MemoPad * Geocaching hint decoder * Record bookmarking * "Nearest caches" search with GPS support * Bluetooth GPS support * Jog wheel support * Import/Export waypoints using GPX and LOC XML files * Plugin application support * Waypoint projection * Memory card support (see documentation for details) Did you know that you can use an Ipod to paperlessly cache? Cachemagnet is free software to import all of the info from a cache to an ipod. I don't know much about it (and am actually looking into it for us as well), but there is a notepad, so you should be able to record info down too. This might be an option for you if you don't have a use for a PDA. Everyone likes their music!

I agree 100%. We too have some micro and nano in the woods type caches. None of which were lazy hides. They took more effort to construct and hide than stuffing some items in a box. All of our caches are clearly labeled and explained so everyone knows what they are getting into. They take you to pretty places or teach you something about the area. The feedback on our caches shows that they have been very well received. It's just so easy to ignore these caches if you don't like them, there's really no reason to argue about any of it. There are caches that we don't prefer, but understand that many others enjoy them. There is a place for all types of caches so all types of people can find something they enjoy.

Does the PN-20 allow any room to enter text? For instance, can you record anything down for puzzle info or log your find, etc? I would love to be able to get rid of one more of the items we carry around. If we could get rid of the PDA, it would be great. But, I wouldn't want to get rid of it, if I couldn't duplicate what I can with cachemate.

I'd suggest getting into paperless caching too, if you're not already. I know the PN-20 gives some info, and from the sounds of it, the new update might help with that more. I would also suggest looking into an inexpensive Palm unit. You can buy them used for a pretty good price on Ebay, or maybe even from someone in your local caching group. Cachemate is a great program (costs $8) and will display the description, hint, size, who placed it, past 5 logs, let you log it as found and your text log, and send that log to GC.com so you don't have to log again. It makes caching alot smoother. Glad to hear you're so excited. Caching is alot of fun. It's a great activity for families, and a wonderful teaching tool for kids

A good portion of electronic equipment out there will need an update after you just purchased it. Video gaming platforms, GPS units, cell phones, etc. are all upgraded on a regular basis to make the items more user friendly and to fix bugs. You should see the update as a good thing. There are several people on this forum waiting for Magellan to get around to making updates for the mess of a unit they just put out, and there are Garmin issues arising as we speak. Only time will tell how fast they can get things working. Be glad when you see a company that works hard to ensure you have the best customer experience you can! And be glad that those updates are there so that you don't have to experience some of the initial problems that all equipment go though when first released. From what I understand, there will be another update in the near future that will allow for more characters to be displayed. I don't think that one has come out yet. If you have any questions, Delorme has a forum where you can talk to the person I quoted above and others like Embra that have owned their units for some time. You can also call Delorme. I've called at least a dozen times with questions and never waited more than a few minutes to talk to someone.

I don't have mine yet, so I can't get you first hand info. But, I did find this comment from Team Delorme online that should answer things for you: I'm not sure that 'tedious' is a fair description... I'll outline the steps so that you can make the call for yourself. 1. Download the GPX file from Geocaching.com. 2. Use the Draw tab in Topo USA to import your GPX file. 3. Use the Exchange Dialog to transfer the Waypoints to your PN-20. It's really that simple. Personally, I build Pocket Queries for the areas where I travel. It allows me to push a lot of waypoints to the device at once and it includes the cache description and hint along with other important info. One of the new features we're trying to share with people is the ability to view full cache details (up to 800 characters) within each Waypoint on the PN-20. We are trying hard to remove the need for printing cache descriptions or carrying a second device with the cache details. We're also listening very closely to people like yourself and working to make improvements for waypoint management in Topo USA as well as other places. I've been championing the Send to GPS plug-in and based on reaction to your post feel like we'll see progress in this area... We're a small company and we try hard to react quickly to these types of requests. There's a 30 day money back guarantee on our device. I'm in the forums pretty regularly... feel free to fire me an e-mail if you have any questions. If I can't show you what we've done to improve the geocaching experience then you're free to return the device... we want our customers to be happy with their purchase. Chip Noble Team DeLorme

Our state group commemorates when someone has hit 200 found. So for our area, this seems to be the number. We're not up to that yet, although we're close.

We won't go anywhere we feel uncomfortable, or that appears to us to not have permission and is private property. For hiding, we won't put a cache in a place without a good purpose. To us that means that the area is either pretty, a good place to hike, offers something to learn or special to see, is a good place to stop to rest along a series, offers a perfect spot for a clever container, or a combination of those reasons. We will not just place a cache because we can. My statement above somewhat addresses where we won't put a cache, but we won't look for one in trash, on private property, or in an area that is so busy that we feel uncomfortable. Some busy urban areas are ok, but others can make us look like we're doing something wrong....those we just stop doing or won't start to begin with. There is definately some level of risk that we are willing to take with ourselves, our car, and even our children (but not as much with them). We like to 4 wheel, so that's the risk with our vehicle. Depending on the situation, one of us may stay back with our kids while the other caches. However, we have no problem helping our kids to scramble over rocky cliffs (if we feel it's safe to and they're not too steep....we have a few really nice hiking trails with these around our area) and to hoist them up with ropes too (again if we feel it's safe....and of course the ropes would used so the kids won't be hurt and are comfortable....again some really cool hiking trails that have areas that our kids just can't climb with their leg length). I think our instincts guide us pretty well. We have hidden every type and size of cache there is. We spent alot of time figuring out our series and placing them in spaces that we feel are fun and have a good reason for the cache. Some of our containers are traditional ones that many use, and some are fun or somewhat unique for the area. We think that there are types of caches out there for all types of people and the variety is what makes this a great sport/game. We will ALWAYS CITO our own cache space prior to placing it (with the exception of one area leading up to one of our caches that was too littered. It will be our first event cache this Spring when the snow melts). We also try to be as quick as we can fixing our own caches (unfortunately, the weather can sometimes prevent the timeliness). We CITO other spots when we have the spare time to do so and always try to help others out with their caches when we have the supplies along with us. If we don't, we make sure to notify the owner so that they can get to it at soon as possible. We always record in the log, but it's a personal choice thing. As cache owners, we enjoy reading when people visit ours and feel other owners probably feel the same way. We don't participate in other sites, yet. We believe that the least amount of impact on nature, the better. But, walking within unprotected areas is just fine, to us. We will turn over rocks and look in bushes, but we put the rocks back and don't hack things up. We don't feel that we create much of an impact when we hike. We have no problem attaching a cache to a structure if we have obtained permission from the owner of that structure. Otherwise, no we will not permanently attach anything. We don't have anything written other than similar responses that we've made on the forum.

I think it also refers to any of the supplementary data sets available. There's nautical charts, aerial charts, etc.

I can see what you're saying. And I'm not trying to push Delorme. You have to figure out what works for your lifestyle. Most geocachers don't travel world-wide, they travel within their country or a few surrounding countries (depending on how small their country is). Most, has to mean most. Most people in the world won't travel outside their own country. A greater number of people living in Europe will as the countries there are more like the size of US states. At any rate, the point is to find what works for you. Are you traveling out of the US alot? Then buy a mapping program that works for that. Are you staying within the states and looking for a more detailed map for your travels, then Delorme gives you the best maps out there(if it is compatible with your unit of course). I would think it would be natural for anyone to want to purchase the very best they can afford for what they need. I get that Delorme doesn't work for you. That's ok. If Garmin does, then it makes sense for you. But for those who mostly stay within the US, Delorme can't be beat....for now anyway. The OP didn't say that he traveled outside the US, so I think that software or paper maps for his needs are what is important in this thread.

This is exactly why it is so helpful for owners to list in the description the approximate length of a hike. Significant can vary even within a family. Someone might have medical or physical restraints that makes 1 mile hard. Different ages of kids will find different lengths significant. With our three kids, we have to take this in consideration when we look for hikes. They can easily do 5-6 miles comfortably, but to us, that's just warming up.

I not only like them, I prefer them. I love being in the woods, mountains, etc. and a clever container (which is generally a small to nano sized container) makes the time even better. For the record, my 3 kids (ages 9, 7, and 6) also enjoy these the most as well. They like swag, but aren't upset if they don't find it. They like the challenge involved in finding a cool container. They make it a competition to see who can spot it first. And if they don't want to search for one, they climb around on rocks, play hide and seek, or just run around while mom and dad do the searching. It makes for a happy time all around.

As long as you plan on spending your entire life within the USA..... That's true, but really most products you purchase within a country pertain to that country. We're ex-military and have learned that is true for alot of things. Just like you wouldn't go to Japan and expect for them to have alot of US and Canada items either. Some great items that Japanese based companies have, will rarely ever see the states at all (unless you live in Hawaii like we did....in which case you do see quite a few items). I'm sure you have companies up in Canada that cater to Canadians only. If you travel alot between the US and Canada, you have to work with a product that will suit your lifestyle. Nothing's perfect out there.

Something else the lady told me is that they other maps and images that they offer are 50% off if you own a PN-20. Of course you will get the $100 to spend on images, but if you need more than that, having the PN-20 gets you a nice discount through them.