TheCarterFamily

There may be more at play here than just geocachers. do this people own the road too? As I said I think the BT group is just in panic mode. If they had a trail through my land and I said I wanted a brand new paved drive way or I was going to deny access... I'd have a gold plated drive way by morning. Probably good idea we pull caches out of such hot zones anyways... Best thing would be to get the land owners into geocaching so they place their own caches on their own land

Another update on this... The Stump City (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=c6e08c96-a0b6-4871-bf56-1f2c87aaca37) cache area. According to the BT co-ordinator they are complaining they have problems with trespassers. Yet there's no signs any where, except the huge sign on their front gate saying "Visitors Welcome" I think if they took that sign down they might have better luck controlling "trespassers".

Who would have thought my caches would have drawn so much attention. In any case here's what's happened so far. First, being tired of the politics of being a Cache Owner and the fact I can't get out to maintain these caches pro-actively as lead to the response. I've actually been waiting for something to go wrong with these cache (wet logs or go missing) to pull them. Here's the story, I got an email from The BT Land Co-ordinator saying "This cache is on private property, please remove". -- only really figured that out by matching the e-mail to the BT site, author never actually said who they were -- That's all I got, no indication on which cache(s). So asked. The response I got was they didn't have the names but it was the caches on the bruce trail. -- They weren't sure about the ones in the parks yet or not -- On that I just disabled them all. The only three I could find that might be on what might be private property all had the "I'm not liable approval" That is a letter saying they are not going to say OK to the cache, but they will not stop me from placing one either. After disabling all the caches where I have such approval (which includes the Town of Orangeville and Town of Mono), and any on the BT... I got a response (like a day later) The only two caches that they had a problem with were the Stump City (on the Temple grounds) and Monster in the Dark (resort grounds). These were definitely the "not liable approval", one was verbal on the phone. My speculation since it doesn't appear the land owner asked for the removal (no confirmation on that, MapGirl hasn't respond yet.) is that the BT is in panic mode. Their just blanketing any cache on BT on private land. So my note in the cache was based on saying "this cache is on private property, please remove" and and e-mail saying they are on the bruce trail (pretty much guess which ones they are)... So in my case it was easier to pull the caches then deal with the constant politics. There are others getting the same notifications so it's not just me. A side note... any trail that's labelled "Stay on Trail" I have the caches within arms reach or where there is already a blazed trail. The only exception was when there was a fence on either side of the trail pretty much telling you where the owner wants you to stay. If there was no "Stay on Trail" sign then I'd put it where it makes sense. My dead Bruce Trail Project was putting the caches in that way. Actually my elbow cache was actually on the trail people would step over/around the object it was hidden in.

"Copying or tracing what you see in a commercial product" I feel rather insulted that you even suggested this. No where in my post did I even suggest it. I use only CC, my own tracks or tracks I have received permission from the author to edit OSM. As for the rest... You can do what you want with "your" money. Point, and reason I asked for the change, is I find geocaching.com near impossible to use for most of what I need to do. I don't feel it's worth the money I'm paying for this service.

Off the top of my head TrailBehind Inc. is one of them. Their giving me the ability to find geocaches and map out the trails to better enhance OSM. Edit: Just to add to this... how many people are using a program like GSAK to make up the "difference" of what Geocaching.com can't do. So if you register it, your paying $25US on top of your geocaching.com fee.

To answer Keith Watson "value" comment I think of only one thing. I used to maintain 2 premium accounts, for my family, with Geocaching.com at a value of $60/year. I'm finding with the lack of options, like OSM and iPhone Application deficiencies that this is not even worth the $30/year. I've already let one account expire. Since I'm finding I need to pay other companies money to make up the difference, I find it a waste of money to continue paying to geocaching.com. Makes more sense to let both accounts expire and sign up again when the "value" of Geocaching.com increases. Now this is only me... but if others followed the same logic...

I agree in addition to is the best. It's more what I envisioned and have no idea why I put instead of in the title.... As for all those saying, but OSM isn't accurate in my area, or has no data... I'm still scratching my head on that.... We're all Geocaches, arn't we? We all have GPSs don't we? To my knowlege any handheld GPS saves track logs as you go and/or has features for saving routes. So if it's inaccurate or missing... fix it! I spend 2 hours last night and entered about 30 trail systems for my area. It's not hard to do... http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_Guide

Right and my comment back is you have all the tools to add the maps yourself. I've already added 4 of the trails to the map. My suggestion is cut and paste trail sections into new files so your working with smaller chunks. (any text editor should do the trick)

I think I missed something here? The offer their trails in a GPX file. You can upload GPX files into OSM and trace it. So I don't see the problem?

Easy is a very subjective term. For me I have a Garmin GPS 60cx and an iPhone. For a recent trail I used iPhone app Gaia GPS to create a track. Emailed the track to myself, saved it to my hard drive. Just for greater accuracy I also used the Garmin's save track feature to save the starting/ending points of my trip, and copied the saved route to my computer using gpsbabel - http://www.gpsbabel.org/. (I'm a linux user so I don't know about windows) Then just uploaded both files into OSM, clicked the edit button, and traced the route. Then loaded my Garmin track log and compared the recently created trail. Done. Took me all of 10 minutes. Later I started to get fancy and used the gpsbabel features to filter, combine and massage the GPX files. Any really large files made OSM choke but with GPS babel I was able to make them smaller. Here's an example of the commands I used: I needed to convert the track to waypoints for filtering which is why there are multiple passes. gpsbabel -i gpx -f 2006.gpx -f 2007.gpx -f 2008.gpx -f 2009.gpx -f 2010.gpx -x transform,wpt=trk -o unicsv -F Area_Converted_To_WPT.csv gpsbabel -i unicsv -f Area_Converted_To_WPT.csv -x radius,lat=44.0000,lon=-81.0000,exclude=yes,distance=0.1K,nosort=yes -o unicsv -F Area_Remove_Home.csv gpsbabel -i unicsv -f Area_Remove_Home.csv -x radius,lat=43.92863,lon=-80.12657,distance=1K,nosort=yes -o unicsv -F Area_Mountain_Bike_Trail-pre.csv gpsbabel -i unicsv -f Area_Mountain_Bike_Trail-pre.csv -x transform,trk=wpt,del -o gpx -F Area_Mountain_Bike_Trail.gpx

why not take your GPS and drive the missing streets, and walk or cycle the missing paths. The interface is pretty easy to use? Just upload the track log from you GPS and trace.

That's why I suggested the pledge system in there. If we pledge the top 10 with enough money they could hire someone temporarily to implement them. Personally I'd like to see them adopt an open-source business model like Google is doing, or at least partially. I'd be happy to write your feature request, free of charge, and submit it to TPTB for review and implementation. I'm sure there are others that would write enhancements for GC.com just because they love the sport. A while back I created a database build from 3 years of collecting GPX Pocket Queries, just so I could do polygon and search by route type queries. This came in handy for trips where standard Center of Screen type searches would return 10,000 caches to cover the distance. Granted once I got my iPhone the need for this DB went away as it can do live searches from my current position and I've archived the entire system. But the time I spend developing that system I could have easily submitted code changes for review and GC.com would have benefited.

When a new feature is requested in the forums, a discussion starts. Reading these discussions I walk away with a sense of what will be implemented is based on who screams the loudest. I thought a better system would be like the Dell Idea Storm or CodeWeavers voting system (http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=6293) Where someone can present an idea and it can be voted on. That way the developers can get a clear sense of which features people find most useful. The second part, which code weavers has implemented, would be a pledge system. I've had many show stopper issues come up for me that have hindered my ability to cache paperless effectively. I personally would mind throwing some money at an idea to get it put in, if that's what it takes.

That's really cool! Here's an example of an area close to me. http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=14&lat=43...rs=B00000TFFFFF The trails on there and roads in parks give me a better idea of where to park and general access points not on google.

I feel my point may have been lost. (maybe it didn't but thought I'd try to be more clear just incase I did loose people) The Request: Currently viewing geocaches the iPhone GeoCaching program allows for you to switch to using OpenStreetMaps (OSM). In my area Orangeville, Canada. People have been loading in trails like the Bruce Trail and the Caledon Trails. So when viewing the geocaches in an area I can get a sense of where the geocaches are related to where the trails are. Plus the entrances so I know where to start and where I'll end up. (None of the maps are an exact science, even google maps don't line up 100%) So what I'd like is to have GeoCaching.com have the same option where you can pick the map to use as your default. (rather than just Google) Pros: - OSM is free and you can view the maps without a login - OSM is edited like wikipedia. So it's not bound by legal contracts like NavTec. (I once tried to submit the new HW 109 by-pass. NavTec wouldn't even consider my GPS data or that I found a new road because I wasn't a government agency) - Any one can easily add new trails/roads that currently don't exist. You just create an account on OSM, upload your GPS logs, click edit. Then you can trace, and label the new segment. It becomes live almost immediately. (Here's one I entered yesterday http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=43....yers=B0000F000F - I know the have imported the Canadian Road Network. So they have all the current roads as the Canadian government has recorded them for 2008 (not sure if they have grabbed 2009 yet) I'm pretty sure they've grabbed the Tiger Data system as well for the US. Cons: - Same as the pro, it's community based. This means that it's not a team of experts entering the data. But fans and enthusiusts. So areas with many eyes looking at it will have the greatest accuracy. But with the Canada RN added your accuracy of the road network is going to be just as accurate as Google. For more information: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page

How do you get a trail view? How do you enter GPS coordinates? Not sure I fully understand the question. To view a trail, just view an area of the map where a trail exists. To get one in there, register an account, upload you GPX tracklog (after walking the trail), then use the flash tool to trace and label the trail. Then it's live 30 seconds later on all applications using OSM.

I've been playing around with OpenStreetMaps.org I've finding for our area it's accuracy is much better than google and it's updated more frequently. ie there's a new sub-division going up in our area. OpenStreetMaps already has the roads on it, and the houses aren't even finished. OpenStreetMaps also has a lot of the trails on it. Even one's I've been adding. This is not on Google. I'd find it very helpful on planning my trips if I could see that level of detail on the map

Just to bring some perspective here: The method to do something like this with an GC.com "illegal" script would be to have a small database, or text file containing the cache owner's names. Then have a cron job to monitor that hits the users caches page "http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?u=TheCarterFamily&submit4=Go" then grep the page for the GCXXXXX code. Then we'd need a way to automate the submitting of the ignore cache. (This is only for illustration purposes!) Another method would be to setup an alert near the home base of the cache owner, then just monitor the e-mail account these alerts are sent to for the keywords. Then again automate the submitting of the ignore cache. So adding this feature to the geocaching.com pages shouldn't be that much work to accomplish at all. Realistically it would require on table containing owner, and who to ignore. Then have a script run say nightly that scan's for that users caches and inserts them into the ignore cache table. At the moment I'm fine with the manual method, it just would be a nice to have.

I'm a little lost at what irrelevance my 10-15 or so deleted logs have to getting a feature to ignore a cache owners caches? I think I'm lost here. I've already had discussions with GC.com and they sided with the cache owners, and made recommendation for me to handle these cases (aka ignore list). So really end of discussion, isn't it? Besides, my issue and the reason for ignoring a cache owner's caches, is not what's allowed and what's not. It's the time frame. Knowing you've logged something against the wishes of the cache owner a few days after the visit I can correct. Deleting the log years after... I'm not in a position to even remember the log entry, nor would it still exist in the log book, of some caches. Also over the years, I've resigned a few log books. When tracking back via my own personal DB of my logs I found that the log was deleted. At this point I've deleted my personal DB, stats pages, and just really don't care about the numbers of validity of the log entries any more. I was just enquiring about an easier way to ignore the caches where my logs go missing, that way I don't have revisit years later. Although I think I've got my answer.

Easier just to avoid his caches.

Have you instead thought about seeing if geocaching.com will reinstate and log your log? (assuming it was a valid log, of course). As for boycotting his caches... do you really think he will care, or even notice? The question of valid logs is subjective. If I visit a cache, can see it, take a picture of it, but the container, is in a block of ice... is that a find? or double log entries. Some allow it, some don't. What about if the cache moves locations, is that a new find? some say yes, some say no. Some have special requirements and will delete logs if they feel it's not meeting their special criteria. Geocaching.com told me the cache owner is in charge and they wouldn't reactivate my logs. (even if the guy changes his mind/requirements after 2 years) As for boycotting... sorry didn't mean it the way you took it. I want to avoid going to his caches so I don't waste my time. It has nothing to do with making a statement... just don't want to waste my time visiting his caches.

That's not the reason I want the feature. It's not the type of cache. If that were the case I'd just ignore based on those caches. I had my find #10 (and others) deleted after three years of geocaching. The cache owner suddenly decided that he didn't feel it was a valid log entry. Which of course screws up my milestone finds for the last three years. geocaching.com's position is, since he is the owner, it's his right. So I'm just boycotting all his caches. Saves any problems in the future.

I see there is an ignore list for single caches. Is there a way to ignore all caches by a specific user without having to do it one by one? If there isn't a way. Can this be something added?

Hmm...I gotta go with the best container being the standard peanut butter jar. Although not great for larger tradables, they seem to be easy to close, and if camo'd (duct tape camo or any other colour) they seem fairly durable. From Orangeville eh? Then you may know of PINKERBEV, my aunt and uncle. It seems all their spare time is spent caching now. Glad they get out so much! Krusher67 Peterborough, ON Problem with peanut butter jars is in the winter people tend to crack the lids and put the cache back up side down. If found that water hitting a jar lid from the under side seems to collect water pretty fast. If it's hanging from a tree no problem... except when the cache puts it back by throwing it on the ground. As for Pinkerbev. I've met them twice. We bump into each other here and there.

I've been a cache owner for 3 years now. I've tested many containers and found the perfect containers/conditions for weather. Wide mouth water bottles and lock'n'locks are the best. Even peanut butter jars are perfect if kept in an upright position. (ie hanging from a tree) My biggest problem with cache containers is geocachers (and muggles) My water bottle caches seems to be the top hottest item to steal. If their not completely gone their cross threaded or the lids are smashed. Lock'n'locks are only good if the container isn't smashed with a rock, or has the ziplock bag smushed between lid and the container, or so over packed that the seal isn't even touching the container. The other containers (which say leave upright on the container) I find every which way other than the way I meant. I've thought of getting the ammo cans but their not much better. I've seen so many people who can't close them properly it isn't funny. Let's face it if a ammo can is not fully shut, upsidedown in a puddle, it's weather proofing is useless. I've thought of a few ideas for double type containers but still can't get around the idiot proofing if the geocacher decides the second lid isn't needed and throws it away. So long story to ask a simple question. Anyone out there found the ultimate container which could be left in the field for say 25 years?