Croaker

Yes I have! Wrecked my patellar tendon. Stepped off a forest service road, a little slip and whoops next thing I know it's out with the duct tape and steel rods to make a brace to I could get home. Then off to the ER. They thought the steel rod and duct tape brace was quite amusing. Had to have surgery to fix it, big incision type too, none of that arthroscopic stuff. Croaker

I have one leg longer than the other, keeps me going round in circles. Croaker

I was born in Spokane so I'll commit for five. Great job to all for the design of this coin. Croaker

EraSeek, You have my heartfelt sympathy. I'm having flashbacks of when I wrecked my knee caching. I'm glad I wasn't as far in as you. On the other hand the 6 weeks in a cast will pass much quicker than you realize. Croaker

I upgraded to the 76cs from a 12XL was week. WOW! My trusty 12XL just isn't in the same league anymore. The screen is fantastic, it's quick to zoom in and out. Even the basic loaded basemap is useful. I have the NA City Select on order and it is scheduled to arrive on the 20th. I've used the USB cable to download tracks and routes with ExpertGPS and it is so much faster that the serial cable. I have absolutely no reservations recommending this GPSR. Croaker

I guess a ruptured Patellar Tendon counts. Stepped off the road, about a 50 degree slope. 3 foot elevation loss. Slipped, fell down. I knew I'd tweaked my knee. Tried to stand up, fell down, twice. Crawled back up to road. On a Forest Service road, 50 yards from the main road. Heard a car coming. Yelled enough to get them to stop. They helped me to my truck. Sent them on their way. Duct taped 2 steel rods to my leg and drove home. This happened on Sunday the 23rd. Surgery on Wednesday the 26th. No caching for a while. 48 years old. Often cache alone. Experienced outdoorsman. Some might say I made some bad decisions that day. 1. No cell phone. If I'd taken it what could I have done? Scare the hell out of my wife by calling her and telling her I was 30 miles away and had wrecked my leg? Call 911 and have an expensive and unnecessary ambulance ride? No blood spurting here, no urgency. No, a phone wouldn't have helped. 2. Being alone. My usual cache partner is my 8 year old daughter. Well I suppose it would have expanded her vocabulary. I did call out to various deities, so she may have learned a bit about different religions. Really the only thing it would have done is scare the hell out of her, cause it scared the hell out of me. I'll file this under lessons learned and be back caching by the end of June. Croaker

You want sone Filson Double Tin Cloth pants. http://www.filson.com/67.HTM They are not cheap. Croaker

Two points Gloom. 1. I never said anything goes in the NF. The point I was trying to make is that they don't stop idiots from killing themselves on Mt Hood or any of the other Cascade peaks do they? Yet we, the public, end up paying millions of dollars for some fools mistake. Personally I think you go in the woods, you are on your own. Don't expect to be rescued, that would thin out the crowds fairly quickly. 2. If they didn't want the location known then they shouldn't have put their faces on the TV and in the newspaper. They brought this before the public, more than once. If they have a problem with it now being an "open" secret they only have themselves to blame. Croaker

I don't have a problem with Grin'nBearit's cache. While I had earlier advocated no caches at the Hell Hole I've changed my mind. The location of the Hell Hole is public knowledge. These messages are archived all over the Internet. To propose that putting a cache there is in some fashion advertising the location and will bring down the wrath of the Forest Service is foolish. I don't worry about the Forest Service trying to pay Geocaching back for revealing this secret location. I think they are more professional than that and have better things to do, besides if they tried to ban every recreational activity that had the possibility of someone being injured, there would be no recreational use of the forest. No recreation means no jobs and who in their right mind puts their job at risk? Finally as someone who has actually been there, the Hell Hole is no more dangerous than some other caches I've visited. How many of you have levered yourself off the couch to go there and see for yourself? Croaker

Just a suggestion but you may want to read my report of the attempt Greebes and I made yesterday. Yes we had hard hats and ropes. The hard hats we wore. Never had the need to use the rope. Croaker

Greebes and I have 2 words for anyone thinking about taking on the Hell Hole. DON'T GO! We left Corvallis at 6 AM. Made it up to area the Hell Hole is located in about 2 hours. Based on the what we saw on the road below the HH we decided to approach it from the north. There was logging going on to the west of the HH, not very far, you could hear the trees when they came down. We parked the truck at the closest point to the HH that we could find and set off through the brush. The brush is very thick. Salal, blackberry, and all kids of stuff so we had to weave our way through towards the HH. It was only 3/10ths of a mile. but it is very difficult to move in any sort of a straight line because of the brush. It took about 40 minutes to reach the edge. I set a waypoint there. We were standing on the edge, we couldn't see very far east or west and southern edge was not distinct. We moved to the east hoping to get a better view but it never improved. I set another waypoint here. We decided to go back to the truck and approach the HH from below as the was absolutely no way to come at it from above. We made our way back to the truck and moved down below the HH on the road. I used the GOTO function of my Garmin and set a course for the 2nd waypoint and we started up the hill. It was a very steep route. We had gone about 200 yards and had stopped to catch our breath when I noticed a deer above us about 50 feet away. Maybe it couldn't believe what it was seeing but it just stared at us. Then it turned and as it moved away it kicked loose a rock the size of a bowling ball. An omen? A warning? I don't know, but we should have taken it as one. We made it up into a boulder field, all covered with dry moss and leaves. We were now only a couple hundred feet from waypoint 2. It was obvious there was a depression running off to our left(west) as we faced the hillside but it was completely filled with brush. No way at all to get through. We tried hooking around to the right to get to the base of the wall to see if there was any sort of path or trail. Nothing there either. So we tried to go along the other side. We were able to move to the west for a couple hundred yards but were forced down the hillside by the brush and terrain so we couldn't see the edge anymore. It was at this point we decided to call off this expedition. Greebes had disturbed a hornets nest in the boulder field. I came way too close to injuring my leg when I stepped between two boulders and the solid ground turned out to be leaves and moss. Covered with cuts and scratches from the brush and under constant assault from horseflies we bailed off the hillside. We don't know if where we tried to enter was wrong or what. We are both disappointed with what we did see. We do know we won't go back. I will try and post some pictures in the next couple of days. I will send our track and waypoints in either National Geographic *.tpo or ExpertGPS *.loc format to anyone that wants them. Croaker pacree@comcast.net

George I'm not a tree hugger by any means. And I use deer trails all the time to get to caches. Funny thing about deer. They don't tend to leave behind empty soda cans, candy wrappers or trash. Hey they do leave those raisin thingys behind, mmmmmmm yummy Croaker

I have to agree with Navdog. This isn't a place for a cache. Not a traditional, nor virtual or any other. It's just a place I've wanted to go see since I read the newspaper article. That being said I'm going down that way on Saturday the 12th, Grin'N'Bearit has some caches down there that have caught my eye. There's also a land form that's going to have a cache by the name of MJOLNIR placed. After looking at the caches placed by Moondog3 and Grin'N'Bearit I am all to aware of the shortcomings of my one and only cache so far. Croaker

Great work everyone! I hope this is the answer. If we can track down a little film container halfway acroos the state then a half mile long rift doesn't stand a chance. I'll be heading that way the weekend of the 12th. Croaker

I just snagged this off the OPB forums. So this guy has been there twice but he won't even take his family? Not very charitable. This is a couple years old, the number for ordering back episodes has changed. I called but no one answered. I left a message but don't expect to hear from them until the begging season. Croaker Author: Bryon Snapp (---.proaxis.net) Date: 10-15-01 21:45 I have been to the bottom of the Hell Hole twice. I know that it is a severly guarded secret and I will not give clues to where it might be found. I heard that Oregon Field Guide did a story on it and I want to know how I could get a copy of the broadcast to show my wife, parents, and friends since I won't take them there. I want to know more about it than what was printed in the Oregonian in 1997-98. Reply To This Message RE: Hell Hole Author: Jim Newman (---.opb.org) Date: 11-21-01 16:20 OFG episode #803 features the hell hole. You can get a copy by contacting audience services, 503-244-9900 [This message was edited by Croaker on June 27, 2003 at 04:11 PM.]

Unless we've been given deliberatley wrong information I have to think that the location is more to the NE. It's supposed to be within the Cascade snow zone, an upper North Fork valley. South of Oakridge doesn't fit. Croaker

I've been looking at the area around Chucksney Mountain with ExpertGPS. I have some possibles I'll be checking out as soon as I get time. Croaker

I plan to check the OSU library. They have an extensive map collection. Who know if they'll let me look through them. Croaker

It's supposed to be about 80 feet deep and only 10 or 15 yards wide at its widest, a couple hundred yards long. I've heard the Forest Service has or is deleting all reference to it and has asked the same of the USGS people, oh! save me from myself. Someone knows, time to fess up. Croaker

Yes I know some folks consider Oregon a hell hole, but I'm looking for the location of the Hell Hole profiled on the Oregon Field Guide show on PBS and in the Oregonian back in the mid 80's. The PBS show made a big deal of the secrecy of the location. I've always hated the media doing things like that. Being out in hurricanes, snow storms or any of the like, but telling you don't come out here, it's too dangerous for you mere mortals. I have an impression it was up towards Oakridge. Thanks, Croaker

Have set up your PDA to sync files? If so then save the GPX file you get in your email to your desktop. Then drag it from your desktop to the folder created by ActiveSysnc. Sync your computer and PDA, then open GPXViewer and you will see the numbered GPX file tap and away you go. Croaker

Thanks hydee Croaker

Hey folks, I sent a US Postal money order off to Bellevue on Monday the 2nd of June, it's now the 6th and I've heard nothing. Corvallis, Oregon to Bellevue, Washington..256 miles. 1 day or 2 days max for the Post Office. I sent an email to the Premium Membership questions mailbox and have received no response. Anyone home in Bellevue? Thanks Croaker

I have the loc file of Oregon hot springs. I'm working on California and Idaho. Send me a email if you want them. These were made with ExpertGPS. Croaker

1974 to 1995. Retired as a GySgt of Marines. MOS was 0369. BTDT. Croaker