VegasCacheHounds

That is absolutely what I do. I couldn't get along without Google Earth at this point. I just pan around looking for woods. On the other hand, all these things are easier when you only go for a few per day out. This would be great for me...if only Google Maps would recognize the existence of the roads in my area. They don't. And by the time I'm down to the bottom of page 1, I'm looking at using at least two gallons of gas to get to one new cache. What about bridges (or lack there-of)?

Oh, and put me down for 2

While it'd be cool to get my own icon, I doubt I'd ever buy so many that I'd have to count on a certain amount of sales to get my moneys worth. Than again, I haven't gotten bit by the coin craze, so take my view with a big grain of salt.

Wait, were both these logs on the same cache?

Hey, wait, is that why you stood me up?

Oh, sure, blame it on the reviewers. Typical.

I've considered hiding a Terracache in the park near my house. There is a great spot (in my opinion) that is only 400 feet from a micro in the woods (complete with soggy logsheet). However, that cache is now missing, and about a week or two away from being archived, so I'll likely hide it as a Geocache. I've only found two Terracaches, both Locationless. I still get alerts of new ones, but I believe the closest actual Terracache to me is about 10 miles.

And your logs say "Was out for an evening of caching with CacherX and BobGPS. Thanks for the cache and a fun time!" So DanCachonwer thinks, "You liked my caches, you really liked my caches!" "I'm going to hide more like them". Actually, my logs are typically "Found with X and Y while running tonight. TFTC.". Perhaps I should begin logging them differently.... "Out Spew Mopping with X and Y tonight. Another off the list." Regardless of whether I boycott the caches or not, others won't. So my find won't impact things one way or another. I do try to make the logs as brief and uninteresting as possible though. My last lamp post find was logged simply as "TFTC" My point though that if more people were honest in their logs, perhaps it could help the problem. I know that its hard for me to dis a cache in my log, but I'm getting better at it. I've started being a bitmore honest in my logs as to what I've thought about a cache, and so far no one has gotten irate about it. In fact, a couple of times things have imporved due to it. For instance, I posted this angry rant in a log: As you can see by my edit to the log, the cache owner sent me a polite note, with a hint, and he realized that a glitch had reset the rating to 1/1 and he fixed it. So honesty in cache logs does seem to pay off.

OOPS!! Time to close this thread. The Voice of Reason has reared it's ugly head... Whoa! I'm the Voice of Reason? Things have gotten out of control you got the ugly head part right though.

No attack taken. It's not the "main issue" here as you suggest, but you're absolutely right and I freely admit it: Yes, stats overall have been cheapened by Micro Spew. I have also freely admitted on these forums that I was indeed a Number Ho back before it was fashionable (in mid-'04 when I hit 1500 I believe I was in or close to top-100-ranked worldwide), and yes, I did get a certain level of ego grat out of being recognized for my stats. I used to get asked to give talks at Event Caches about cache hiding, specifically because I was known in my region (Deep Dixie - LA/MS/AL) as a high-number cacher who also happened to be a traveler who got to see hide techinques in a lot of different regions. I enjoyed that recognition and acknowledgement, and I'm secure enough to admit I enjoyed it...why not? But then I realized with the changes in the game, I could no longer compete on stats unless I wanted to hunt Spewed Micros. So yeah, there's a personal aspect to this: The game changed and the way I play it changed. BUT: It's also clear from these spirited discussions that while not everyone may have the same motivations for railing against Micro Spew as I do, people HAVE taken notice of the fundamental shift in how our game is played, and for whatever reason, may not be too happy about it either. Cool, I realized as I got most the way through that post that without 'tone', my post could be taken as irate or attacking when it was meant as good natured debate fodder. Anyways, back on topic, I have no lakc of respect for you caring about numbers. At one point I was among the top ten cachers in Nevada, according to the stat site that no longer exists, and really wanted to climb to the top, but I quickly realized that I did not have to time to dedicate to caching that others did, so I stopped competing. I can imaging how much harder it'd be today, with the profliferation of all cache hides, to even get into the top 50 in an area. And I also have no problem with people disliking any particular style of cache, as the saying goes "To Each Their Own", but at the same time I'm going to leave the caches I don't like alone unless A.) they break the guidelines, B.) the guidelines change to remove a certain type or C.) the cache is mis-labeled on the cache page (terrain and difficulty ratings are waaaay off here in Texas in my opinion, but that may just be me). Lately my main issue has been a lack of hints on caches, expecially the supposedly easy micros. Sure, it may be easy to find, but if its not really there, a hint would sure save some time of looking for something thats gone. However, I'm not going to jump up and down and try to get everyone to conform to my way of thinking, but I may (and have) put in my DNF how much I wish there was a hint (which has payed off a couple of times already around here).

This reminds me of our pick-up baseball games in grade school. No umps to enforce the rules or make the calls. The game eventually degenerates into endless squabbling because some refused to play by conventional baseball rules. We don't have official "rules", but I think the analogy applies. Thank you, that is exactly my point. If we don't draw a line somewhere and enforce that line, then what happens to our game? For the record, that line has been drawn. Its called The Guidelines, and has further been backed up repeatedly by the Man himself, Jeremy. See the quotes by him in this thread and others. Guidelines, guidelines, we don't need no stinkin' guidelines. Great! Hey, send me pics of your cache containers so I can say I've seen them and log them all as finds, and I'll send you pics of mine!

Whoa, I just clikced that link! I'd love to find that cache! Thanks for placing it.

My most recent cache placement is in an incredible location where I could have hid a big ammo can full of great swag. However, I know only three people are going to hike to that cache in a year's time . . . I have several ammo can caches out there, but the visitors to those, added all together, don't add up to the number of visitors to an Altoids tin at one of San Diego's Trolley Stations. I don't know what the answer is to that . . . I don't think an answer is needed, but I'll try: Quantity rarely equals Quality. Just because the micro at the trolley station gets way more hits doesn't mean that the people that find your ammo can had any less of an expereince, in fact I'd bet its the opposite way around. I know I'm always way more impressed when I get a log on my Atomic Cache (an ammo can miles out into the desert) than I am when I get a log on my Pop Tart cache, a Small cache in a park near my house.

It's like The Flu (to quote the great Lewis Black: "This one guy gets off a boat from Formosa and starts walking around shaking hands with everyone he meets, 'How ya doin'? How ya doin'?' and next thing you know, you've got The Flu.") All it takes is one determined cache hider who leaves the house with 30 micro containers and the attitude of "I"m going to hide all 30 of these containers today, no matter what, by God." and the process is set in motion, and you've got The Spew. You'd seem to have everyone believe that the Spew has rendered other cache styles archaic. Thats not true. People are still hiding great caches. Not too long ago I did a comparison of the Las Vegas area's cache stats between when I started cacheing in 2002 and when I did this comparo, about 6 months ago (post Spew date), and what I discoveder is that yes, there were a ton more Micros hidden, but there were also a ton more Regulars, and even a ton more Large caches being hidden. I'd bet that in just about any area this would hold true, that all types of caches are being placed still. I think I've finally realized what the main issue is here. You really are bothered that your numbers are not as impressive as they once were. You seem to keep saying "You know, for those that care" but really, I bet its you that cares. Why does it matter so much that your numbers have been 'cheapened"? Does this meen that you didn't enjoy all those caches that you've found, just because some other cachers have found more, but less quality, caches than you? If this seems liek I'm attacking Drat, please don't take it that way. Mostly what I'm doing is playing Devil's Advocate, with a bit of my tongue planted in my cheek. For the most part, I agree with Drat, I wish people would hide nothing but perfect caches. of course, good luck getting everyone to agree just what that meens

Do most of these micros suck in my opinion? Yes. Would I want to take credit for hiding any of them? No. Do I think that something should be done to stop them? No. Why? Because it seems that for whatever reason, some cachers are having fun hiding them and others, even more bizarrely, are having fun finding them. Is it likely its just a numbers thing? Sure. Do I care if someone wants to spend their time going after these caches just to increase their numbers? Nope, not one bit. My beef isn't micros, its micros placed where a larger cache could have easily been placed. A micro in a place that is approprate for a micro, even if it isn't some wonderous sopt, can still be fun, expecially if I just want to go find something on a quick lucnh break or while out running other errands. It may not be as satisfying as an ammo can at the end of a nice hike, but it still is Geocaching, and still fun. And really, you claim that its hard to just ignoring Micro Spew due to not knowing before you get there, but I don't see how its that hard, look at the map and/or the description. A micro in a park or near a scenic spot? Likely to be decent. A micro in a shopping center? Likely to be Spew. See, not that hard.

Now Stunod, I gotta disagree....this is not On Topic, as its not Geocaching talk but Terracaching talk, so therefore I think it does belong in the Off Topic area, mush like if someone wanted to discuss baseball or any other un-related to Geocaching game.

This reminds me of our pick-up baseball games in grade school. No umps to enforce the rules or make the calls. The game eventually degenerates into endless squabbling because some refused to play by conventional baseball rules. We don't have official "rules", but I think the analogy applies. Thank you, that is exactly my point. If we don't draw a line somewhere and enforce that line, then what happens to our game? For the record, that line has been drawn. Its called The Guidelines, and has further been backed up repeatedly by the Man himself, Jeremy. See the quotes by him in this thread and others.

You know, the more I think about this, the more I'll have to agree with Jamie. If these caches don't meet the guidelines, they should be archived. Why break the rules just because they're remote caches? I attempted to find a couple 'vacation' caches on the Yucatan penesula last Fall. They were placed by cachers that claimed that they worked for travel agencies and were in the area all the time, but I doubt it. Why? Because these caches needed maintenace or were just plain gone based off of all the DNFs on simple caches. Now, I also did a couple if Virtual caches down there, and they were quite fun and well done. Much better than a vacation cache. I wish that there could have been an exception left to still be able to place vacation virtual caches in areas that had very little caches, but I understand that a line has been drawn, so I'll get over it

Okay, that makes a big difference. If its a trade of info between two owners, than I see absolutly no problem in this. (Well, other than I still think he should pony up the $3, but I understand no everyone agrees eith this).

oh, man, if I could only apply this 'No Rules' philosophy to Craps or Blackjack, I could make a killing!

I really could care less about Micro Spew. As long as there are some dedicated caches out there that hide quality caches, those that wish to put out pure crap caches can have all the fun thay want. I view it like wathcing TV. There are a ton of shows that I can't stand, such as Reality TV, and they keep making more shows in that vein, but as long as there are still shows being made that I do like, why would I care about the others? Its not like I'm being forced to watch them (well, some of them, but thats only due to my wife's bad taste in shows).

I am having fun thanks. After reading this lame statement so many times these last few days I am really sorry that I have said it myself at one time. "play your game the way you want to play" If the game has guide lines and someone chooses to flaunt those then they aren't playing the game. They are cheating and devaluing my game. You go ahead and have your life. you know what? I've decided that they're right. As long as I'm having fun, who needs guidelines? Heck, without anyone drawing any sort of line, or even if they do the blatent disregard that we can show for that line, imagine all the fun we can have! Lets see....I've always wanted to have a find in every state...give me about half an hour and I can reach that goal, hour if I really seek out some tough ones. If I can guess to where the cache would be hidden, that should be fun enough to be counted as a find, right? Heck, while I'm at it, I'd like to have more cache hides. Now, the guidelines say that we need at least .1 of a mile between caches, but I'm going to throw a film can about every 100 feet along the trail in the park near my house. Hmmm, I don't have enough logsheets. Oh, I know, I'll just put a codeword in each one. Yeah, I'll never get them approved, but I can just have the finders log finds on some of my archived caches. Sounds like fun to me, so it must be okay. OOOOhh, I know what would be fun! A cache at the school my wife teaches at! I'll just make sure all the students know where its hidden, and have the cachers have to ask a student to show them the hidden spot in the bushes where it is! Fun for everyone! No rules! No Guidelines! No line to stop anyone form hiding anything or logging any cache they want! YAY! Boblog can finally hide that cache filled with expired prescription meds!

Moral of the story: If you're going to plan out a cache so well and put so much work on it, either make it conform to the published guidelines or ask before you place it for an exception. If I was the reviewer, I'd be ticked that you went ahead and expected me to break the guidelines for you.

There's a bookmark list with over 150 already, most having been archieved already and hopefully the rest will be soon. If you really think there are only 9 pocket caches out there pretending to be real approved caches, then you need to stop believing everything you read on the internet. Except forum posts from Pittsburgh. Those are safe. You can believe them. Well, true if you don't count that Keystone clown.

You seem to have forgotten....you posted in the forums....there will be Angst, no matter what