Bikezilla

Could someone take a stab at the following Qs? 1) Land Cover and settings: What does this refer to? 2) Altimiter auto calibrate: How does it function? Does it take the GPS altitude and use some algorithim against the barimetric reading? 3) Barometer, Fixed elevation setting: What is this for? Is this for use when the GPSR is certain not to change elevation? When would this be useful? 4) Best field method to calibrate the altimiter 5) Is the track log distance accuracy affected by the sampling rate? (on track with close frequent turns) 6) Is the altitude log data accuracy affected byt the sampling rate? (on track with close frequent ups and downs) Thanks. 7) Setup/Maps setting: Auto vs. 20ft 30ft etc... what is this setting for?

I switched to 2.9/2.6 and I really didn't notice an increase in acq time. I did notice significantly improved EPE overall and of course a fix to the tunnel and WAAS issues. This new release does not seem to be as big of a deal but I'll wait for some more feedback before switching. Props to Garmin for keeping the updates rolling.

I've got a 60CSx My EPE gets 10-15' out in the open 15-20' on the open road 20-25' on local streets under heavy tree coverage 25-30' spikes in the deep woods but usually less. I can hold a 25' lock in an interior 1st floor room (no external walls) closed door with double sheetrock on all sides, external double walls around that and a 2nd floor above. I also get decent reception in the basement. The recent firmware upgrade made WAAS more effective and overall reception improved even when WAAS was not being received. Cheers!

I have no trouble hearing the tones IF I turn the radio down. But with a kid and a wife in the car, watching where I'm going and basically trying to enjoy the ride I pretty much have to and listen out for beeps which are softer than a $10 watch. IMO, the point of an audible warning is so you don't have to divert part of your attention to monitor the unit for prompts. I suppose whenever I find a non-permenent dash mount I like it will be easier to hear it than when its resting in the console cup holder...but then I'll see the unit flashing too. I'd still like it louder, and would gladly trade some power consumption considering the times I need the extra volume it will be plugged into the lighter adaptor anyway.

I tried it both ways at a few different locations. I even averaged the waypoints >50 2x When in town, with buildings around the distance to the WP was usually more than 2x>EPE (the EPE was <18' no WAAS lock) When on the waterfront away from the buildings the distance to the WP was 2-4' W/ WAAS locked. The worst case sinereo WP on a street w/ skyscrapers on both sides, in front of a building doorway, was over 150' off even with a EPE of 20' Last test will be on my windosill and on my deck out in suburbia. On/Off Road seems to me to only affect how it is routed to the WP but I did not see a difference in the distance to WP. I'll keep experimenting.

Nice. I'll try it both ways now and report back later. Thanks for all the help!

Tnx. Not to belabor the questions but, It sounds like a lot of deep menu setting changes are needed to transition from vehicle autorouting/street navigation to walking it out to the actual waypoint. Are all the following steps required? 1)Disable "Lock on Roads" in the Maps setup menu 2)Set Guidance method to "Off Road" in the Routing setup menu AND 3)Set "Pedestrian" in the Calculate Routes for menu in the Follow Road Options in the Routing setup menu. If so, a macro or 2nd profile function would really be nice! One more question, what does the "Off Road Transition" function on the Saved Routes options menu do?

Red, are you recommending I set the GPSR to "Off Road" as well as disabling "Lock on Roads"? Do I need to have R.O.R. set when locating benchmarks, waypoints etc? Does ROR by default disable LOR? BTW, I'm Heading out at lunchtime to test in lower Manhattan I'll play with those functions. -BZ

I realize there's no way to change the beep volume level on the device, but has anyone else found it too soft for autorouting and such? I have to keep the radio low or pretty much off to hear the alerts and it would be nice not to have to visually check the GPSR to find out if I'm getting near a direction change. I wonder if Garmin could improve this... or maybe add a USB connectable external speaker. Just a thought.

Thanks folks. Yesterday's and today I've been holding the GPS vertical near shoulder height, and will stick with that method. (didn't seem to help in that case) I also tried this morning on the train platform, which is way out in the open on the riverfront. Not unexpectedly I got good results of 2-4' with 5 walkaway and goto-walkback tests frome several directions. Avg 100 samples, EPE 13' WAAS locked, 10 sats most full strength. Of course this is a near best case condition. I will try near the house and in the city with the "lock on roads" disabled and see what I get. Thanks!

I tried averaging 200 samples w/ an 18-23 EPE on a city street corner and also a 400 sample average w/an 14-18 EPE on a windowsill in the burbs, both with intermittant WAAS lock. I still get goto readings ~ 43' on an 18' EPE. I'll try it out in the open and see what averaging does for me.

Tnx. I usually keep the antenna pointed in the direction of best reception during my tests. I usually find ~45 deg vertical angle works best when pointing south west (Located in southern NY) Straight up does not usually improve reception unless I exclude facing in the best direction. I'm using the latest sw. I'll play with the averaging function. I will test it near a single structure some more as well.

Doubling the distance of the EPE makes sense as a possible error (ex 10' EPE could give 20' off the mark.) But there are plenty of times where it was much greater than twice the EPE. Red90, thanks for the info... I'm new to GPS so could you explain how to average a waypoint? In my tests I always waited for the EPE to settle down to a constant low number. Walking away from the points and coming back seemed to aggravate the errors. Out in an open field or waterfront I can get 4-0' off the mark. Standing next to a single structure things seem to get dicy, and if surounded by many fughedaboutit anything but autorouting.

I've noticed under some conditions I can check the "Goto" distance to a known waypoint I'm standing over to be off by quite a bit... like 45' but the GPSR's EPE shows an estimated error factor of 15'. It seems to be most obvious when standing near a building... but less likely or non-existant when inside one or out in the open. For example in the city, I can have an EPE of 25' but the "goto" distance for a waypoint I just, set and am standing over, can be as high as 300' Okay I'll assume this is building reflection errors... no WAAS available worst case conditions. BUT standing on my deck, directly behind my house far from the city and any other obstructions I can get a goto 45' off the mark with a EPE of half that. Even with WAAS. Another reflection issue? Anyone try this? It seems odd a waypoint distance can be off by numbers that far exceed the EPE.

I'm including POST and settle time(25 EPE or less). That can add 30 secs or more. For the most part I get going in under 2 mins as well, but getting started after 6-8hrs off, near buildings or while moving streches it out. 5 second restarts are common for me as well. Funny thing is I can hold a solid <25' lock in a interior 1st floor room w/o any exterior walls...that is door closed, double sheetrock all around, plus the house exterior walls around that, and a 2nd floor above. Nice.

I've been testing and timing my 60CSx startup time under a variety of conditions, I 've found: 1) It takes about 2 mins to acquire sats if it's been off for several hours 2) It takes 3-4 mins to acquire sats if it's started up while moving, AND it's been off for several hours. 3) If it's been off for a while, and moved to a new location, and is moving, and is in a city... it can takes 5-10 mins and can even fail half the time. OTOH, if the system has had a good lock recently, it can re-establish a lock and acquire WAAS with a EPE of 20 or so even on a moving train after being out of contact for 30 mins and 6 miles away from previous lock...and do it in 5-10 seconds of startup. Another interesting observation: I found even with a decent EPE (25' in the city or ~15 in the burbs) actual positioning estimation can far exceed the EPE distance when standing near buildings. Not suprisingly the city is the worst but I'd get 300' distance errors with a 25' EPE! Out in the burbs on my deck directly behind my house, I could get 20-30' distance errors with a 15' EPE even with a WAAS lock. This did not occur when I was standing clear of the house. Sitting out in the open I can get an EPE of 9' with 12 sats most with full bars, and almost no drift over time. Positioning is much better as well and usually goto shows 5' or less while standing directly over a known waypoint.

I did some testing in lower Manhattan today. GPSR: 60csx latest sw revs Initial location: lower Manhattan riverfront. Initial conditions: stable lock w/ WAAS on and locked and feeding D's to the other sats. EPE was ~13' w & w/o WAAS locked (but enabled) Moving in-town a few blocks, EPE dropped to ~25' and no WAAS lock. Results: standing over a brass benchmark disk in town, I set a waypoint. Stepping a few feet away and then doing a "Goto" and going back to the waypoint, I got reading of 20' offt tee first time. the second time was 80' off. WAAS was enabled no I had no locks on WAAS sats at that location. I walked away then back a third time and got a "Goto" reading of 20' again. EPE was never better than 25' At another marker further in town, I got 300' off database location (probably due to scaling) but I set a waypoint directly over the marker, walked ten feet away and did another goto and stood over the marker and found the reading 270' off. EPE was ~30' still no WAAS lock. There were several very tall buildings directly east and west of this location. The third marker plate at another location at at garden square/traffic island intown (better east-west exposure): Again the scaled location was 300+ feet off. I set a waypoint over the marker, stepped away, did another goto and returned to the marker and found it 8' off. No WAAS available EPE around 25' What was interesting was with WAAS DISABLED the "Goto" showed the marker 40' off. I re-enabled WAAS and even though I did not have a lock on or even a sighting of any WAAS bird, the reading went back down to ~8' off. I tried this same thing two more times at another mpromptu waypoint (Tall buildings East and West but some western exposure). Going back and forth to the waypoint I found the location reading ~100' off with WAAS off but only 40' off with WAAS on ...even though there was no lock or sighting of a WAAS bird. EPE was around 25' I would suppose all the tall buildings in lower manhattan played a significant role... I will do some more testing out in suburbia. Also since WAAS is in testing mode and still is not fully up things will probably be dicy until the system is really ready. Cheers!

This is an interesting test. I'd like to try myself sometime. There are several benchmarks near my job so I'll give it a go, it'll be tougher in the city. So if I understand your method correctly you set the GPSR on top of the benchmark called for a goto and noted the distance, and EPE?

Follow-up the trip into town was similar. Lock re-established ~5 seconds after coming out of the subway, no intervention on my part.

Andy: reception at times can be stellar and mediocre at others. It depends on how tight the street is. In the one way narrow streets it can be okay if there's good sky on either end of the block and you go it with a decent lock beforehand. If not it drops to big numbers over 50'. On wide streets and general areas it runs in the mid 20's. Overall I found it fine for navigation, but tricky for benchmarking...but I have almos no experience with benchmarking though.

Yep, the WAAS tunnel problem has most certainly been resolved. I started my system outside the office. In a stationary place on a street corner, near the west side. There were no buildings west of me, wide street to the east, open lanes north and south. Got a ~26-EPE general lock after ~40seconds (having been off for 8+hrs) Got a WAAS lock on Bird 51 after ~80 seconds. Walked t~5 blocks o the subway. EPE varied quite a bit in the canyons,(20s-40s-even higher at one point) WAAS came and went...mostly went. Stood outside the subway for a half a minuet to settle things down, but did not wait for WAAS. I went underground and bagged my 60CSx for the 30 minuet trip uptown, plus another 20 minuets inside Grand Central and the train tunnel. I verified no lock or reception occured during the transfer from the subway to the train. (All deep inside) I emerged from the tunnel ~6mi & 50 min from last lock, and I received a general lock in about 5 seconds, and a WAAS lock in 40 seconds. Note the system showed the weak GPS signal warning until the train came above ground and resumed operation without any intervention on my part. While above ground heading north, I held the GPSR on a west facing windowsill. It was interesting to watch the system switch off from WAAS birds 35,48, & 51. Bird 51 was higest above the western horizon and had the most stable signal. I don't recall seeing 33 since the change but I may have missed it as the system seems to have a prefrence for the other WAAS birds, especially 51. EPE on the train averaged about 25ft. once off the train, on the street and in the car it averaged in the mid to high teens. Even under tree cover and along hilly roads the EPE was good but naturally the WAAS came and went. I did not see a significant difference in EPE during the brief or long periods when WAAS was lost. But overall performance seems to be better in addition to the elimination of the tunnel issue, and getting WAAS locks happens much, much faster now. It'll be great when the whole WAAS network is up and running. -BZ

I work in south Manhattan On the way home I'll take the subway to Grand Central (~30min) and let you know what happens. I don't usually get a WAAS lock leaving the building but I'll wait for one this time. Has anyone noticed it takes longer to get an initial lock if the unit has been off for more than an hour or two...and MUCH longer if you are moving when you turn it on? This seems to have happened for each revision. Not a problem for me just a curiosity.

Same here. WAAS inside. 48 and 51 now visible, when I never had them before. Located in Northern Westchester/Putnam county 40mins north of NYC, on the Hudson. No change in accuracy though. Glad to see Garmin is continously tweaking things.

IMO This is sort of like blaming Ford because there are no super highways in your area. Sure your new Mustang will do 140... but not on the back streets. It seems to me that if all of the WAAS birds that matter are either in test mode, being moved or otherwise out of service or unavailable this whole WAAS thing is a non issue until the actual service has been activated. They'er down until at least Sepetember (we all know how deadlines can slip)... anything we see before then is pure gravy.

I'm in the NYC metro area and frequently get 33 and occasionally 35(very unstable) It's amazing I see 33 at all considering I've read it's located over central Africa. It doesn't really matter IMO, since it makes no difference in my GPS Accuracy. WAAS on or off, active-D visible or not, I get the same accuracy. Hopefully September will bring real functionality.