Traditional Bill

Bump again. Another month with no word. I'm also curious if there's been any further advancement. Especially in systems/processes on how all of the existing caches will be implemented as well. If they're not grandfathered, is the state prepared to deal with the influx of permit requests that will follow? Only time will tell, I suppose.

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am. Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks? Well, that sounds fun.....Or even better.....incredibly difficult challenges rated 5/5 and placed in a guardrail and/or light pole. Then you can fool folks into paying for nuttin'. As a side note, I actually did get privately solicited for climbing lessons after posting that, believe it or not. As promised, I offered the good ole discussion forums discount. All kidding aside, that's great! And it's also great to have a forum discount, as I didn't think anyone read them anymore. I thought the same thing. Took me by surprise a bit, but it's always nice to see cachers that want to learn how to do the more extreme stuff. I actually considered hosting an event to show some cachers "the ropes" but now that we need triple secret permission from the CIA to get a climbing cache published in Jersey, I decided against it. Shame too, because I wouldn't even have charged admission fees

I'm not a teenager, but I sympathise with many of the younger geocachers in this thread. In my late twenties, I'm one of the youngest in my local community. Seems as if it's more of a middle aged-older crowd in my local community. None that I can think of under 30, at least. No complaints on my end, though....I have met some pretty solid geocachers around here who ended up becoming good friends.

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am. Yeah, that's also going to cut into my business once they figure it out for themselves. How about hiding a few 5/5s, laughing maniacally, and not answering the phone for a few weeks? Well, that sounds fun.....Or even better.....incredibly difficult challenges rated 5/5 and placed in a guardrail and/or light pole. Then you can fool folks into paying for nuttin'. As a side note, I actually did get privately solicited for climbing lessons after posting that, believe it or not. As promised, I offered the good ole discussion forums discount.

Firstly, you stated earlier that you "know your stuff", why wouldn't you have just updated the coordinates instead of archiving and re listing? Neither one looked to be more than 528 feet from the bad coordinates. Your reviewer is open to ideas. That's why he/she gave you some ideas. The issue is that vacation caches are only permitted under certain circumstances. Often they are placed by new cachers who do everything they can to get around the review process, hide a container that won't hold up, and forget about it. Family members maintaining the cache often let it fall by the wayside as well and now we're left with litter at GZ because the cache eventually gets archived by the reviewer's hand....all while you're thousands of miles away. Do you see why this is problematic? Your reviewer is taking some very necessary steps to prevent this. Also, I'm pretty sure fool was joking about hiding spares in the vicinity. Try pitching that idea to your reviewer, though. You never know. Seems like you've caught the cache hiding bug. Give it some time for it to wear off. Find some more caches, hide some more and then in a year, let's see if you carefully maintained the caches that you currently own or if you even have a desire to place a cache 5000 miles from home anymore. Or....you can always try to create an earthcache. That's the perfect type of listing for an area you only visit twice a year.

Well this is interesting. I didn't know that this was possible but sure enough the cache mentioned by the OP indeed has a "needs no maintenance" attribute. Is this a hack or a new feature? Why in the world would anybody need an attribute like this?

and here I've only been charging $30 for climbing lessons. What a sucker I am.

I think it's getting to the point where 90% of your posts contain the phrase "knickers in a twist". Or the word "generic" or "non-generic"

Tourist! Can't go home without the smiley!

I can think of one time we were at a tree climb caching in a group. A few of us were climbing up in the tree. Jellis was on the ground. We couldn't find it for anything. Jellis was the one who finally spotted it after a long time. It made us all be able to sign and log the find. Was she any less part of the group effort to get the cache. I don't think so. If she was not there we might not have found it. Only one of us climbed to the actual spot and handed the cache down for the rest of us to sign. It would have been silly for all of us to wait for the original person to climb down and the rest of us to take our turns. In a group effort like that I think that is the benefit of having the right cachers with you. Obviously if you went there alone and couldn't sign it then it wouldn't count as a find but if you all work together to get it and sign it I think it is a legit find. First off, I get the group effort, that's totally okay. I have no problem when a group of cachers does my tree climbing caches and only one person climbs so long as everyone signs the log. I'm curious though, why would it have been "silly" for everyone to climb to the cache? If the folks in the group are willing, and the proper gear is in place with somebody who knows how to use it, why not give them that experience? I don't think letting everybody take a turn is silly at all. Maybe time consuming, but if you have the ability for everybody to experience the cache as intended then why wouldn't you? "I have no problem when a group of cachers does my tree climbing caches and only one person climbs so long as everyone signs the log. I'm curious though, why would it have been "silly" for everyone to climb to the cache? If the folks in the group are willing, and the proper gear is in place with somebody who knows how to use it, why not give them that experience? I don't think letting everybody take a turn is silly at all. Maybe time consuming, but if you have the ability for everybody to experience the cache as intended then why wouldn't you?" SILLY CACHERS ... TREES ARE FOR HUGGING. My bad. I worded that wrong. In some cases we would do that and I would actually prefer to do it that way. We have out a few tree climbing caches ourselves. I was more talking about on this one trip. We had a group of us out on a trip far away with a goal of a bunch of caches in that area we wanted to find. We didn't even get to all the ones we wanted to do that day. That is why I was thinking it would not have been good for us to do. Even thought we probably should have. If it was one close to home we all were just meeting up to do then YES for sure I would want anyone that was able to do so to go for it! That is part of the fun. Most of us were already up in the tree at this one. Now that's the spirit.

If you knowingly place a cache in an area where there is lots and lots of non geocaching foot traffic, you better believe that thing is going to go missing more frequently than a cache in a wooded, secluded area. I will normally be stealthy to an extent while searching for a cache of this nature, but it's a situational thing for me. If a cache is placed on the property of a business, I will be stealthy amongst passer bys, but if employees can see me through the window, and that's all, well then I see no reason for stealth. Why? Because if the cache is in a parking lot on a business' property, I'm going to assume the CO has gotten permission from the business to place a cache there. If it turns out the business isn't aware of the cache, and it gets taken by the proprietors of the business because of "non stealthy" cachers, then I suppose the cache shouldn't have been in that location to begin with, right? Now if the cache is off a walking trail and there's folks using the trail, I'll wait them out. I particularly enjoy using the direct method....for example....If somebody has parked their butt on a bench with a cache that I'd like to find, I'll sit right down next to them. Start itching my head a bit and say something like "shame about this lice going around, isn't it?" I find that removes folks from benches rather quickly [] Sometimes I'll just start ranting about random things to myself and pace the area. That tends to get rid of folks rather quickly as well.

Not a stash, persay, but pages of a magazine that had emphasis on male genitalia scattered all over an area. Glad to have quickly found that one. Seeing that stuff scattered all over the place was a bit discouraging, heh.

I actually found this stuff at a cache in my first year of caching. We came upon a Tupperware container on the edge of what appeared to be a wiccan circle. It was about thirty feet or so from the cache coordinates so we thought it was the cache and went about opening it. Well, as you can see below, it most certainly was not the cache. Rather it was a stash of different items you would see used in a Wicca ritual. Snake skin, candles, stones......We went on to find the cache soon after, but I couldn't help but wonder who put their stuff there first. Seeing this kind of stuff in the middle of the woods was a first for me, so I can thank caching for that!

While I think that's a fantastic idea, I don't think powercachers would be very happy about that.If it's treated the same way virtuals/webcams were with Waymarking, then moving them to another site would likely take away the "+1" aspect on the actual geocaching site and would no longer combine with geocaching finds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the only reason powertrails exist? *edited for spelling error

Of course it does not stop it, but still it worries me that some people who come to this thread think that swapping containers (without permission from the cache owner) is acceptable for certain cache types. I didn't see anyone here saying it was acceptable on certain cache types other then PTs and GeoArts But that's exactly the point. I'm concerned about the fact that several cachers here (including yourself) think that for PTs and GeoArts it's acceptable to swap containers regardless of what the involved cache owners think. Cezanne Not to mention the fact that those powertrail cachers pulled the same shenanigans when doing non-powertrail caches. They can call it a mistake but they knew what they were doing. I have a hard time believing that one wouldn't realize they were doing a cache that wasn't part of the PT or GeoArt trails. Of course, noone is saying it's acceptable...but the lines sure seem to get blurred when those cachers are out in the field, logging caches. Furthermore, I noticed the group in question found the final for the Memory Lane series. I find it extremely hard to believe that they didn't realize that this wasn't part of the powertrail. Surely they would've noticed that they were swapping one of the series caches with another....especially if they had taken down the clue, which they obviously did in order to find the final.

I can think of one time we were at a tree climb caching in a group. A few of us were climbing up in the tree. Jellis was on the ground. We couldn't find it for anything. Jellis was the one who finally spotted it after a long time. It made us all be able to sign and log the find. Was she any less part of the group effort to get the cache. I don't think so. If she was not there we might not have found it. Only one of us climbed to the actual spot and handed the cache down for the rest of us to sign. It would have been silly for all of us to wait for the original person to climb down and the rest of us to take our turns. In a group effort like that I think that is the benefit of having the right cachers with you. Obviously if you went there alone and couldn't sign it then it wouldn't count as a find but if you all work together to get it and sign it I think it is a legit find. First off, I get the group effort, that's totally okay. I have no problem when a group of cachers does my tree climbing caches and only one person climbs so long as everyone signs the log. I'm curious though, why would it have been "silly" for everyone to climb to the cache? If the folks in the group are willing, and the proper gear is in place with somebody who knows how to use it, why not give them that experience? I don't think letting everybody take a turn is silly at all. Maybe time consuming, but if you have the ability for everybody to experience the cache as intended then why wouldn't you?

Yeah! Stealing! I read through this entire thread before I finally saw that word used. Taking somebody's cache and swapping it with one in another location without permission is stealing. While this may be an acceptable practice for powertrails, it's not geocaching if you ask me. It's something else. No CO should ever have to explicitly describe on their cache page that they don't want cachers swapping their containers, regardless of how close the nearby powertrail is. Find cache, sign log, replace as found. That's the bare minimum. When you steal a cache and replace it with a different one, you're no longer replacing the cache as you've found it. Now whether or not this group split up is debatable and that's a whole different problem entirely (you know, that whole "find cache, sign log" thing comes into play). I truly think though, that this is not about that one particular group more than it is about that entire sect of cachers who will try to find time saving measures in any form, just so they can log more smilies. I'm a victim of this myself as I've had to delete many logs and make many trips to verify finds on a difficult cache that I own that's nearby a PT. Yeah, it hasn't been a victim of swapping, but it's victim to many a fake find. It's irritating and bothersome but I don't want to see another pill bottle get stuffed into the location as it's an extremely picturesque area, hence why I placed a cache there. Powertrails are designed only for numbers....not for a unique or inspired location, just numbers and it's really sad when you see caches that have nothing to do with a powertrail, get treated as such just because it's nearby or in the same area.

D: Your Mom is easy... Just gonna leave now. I quite enjoy receiving logs on this one too: Susan (http://coord.info/GC430RY) HAH! Very entertaining logs from 2/10. Love it.

Since we're on the topic of entertaining logs, take a look at some of the logs from this unintentionally funny cache called "Your Mom" (GC2VWAB). Looks like the most recent jokesters found it on 3/8. I actually did Your Mom quite some time ago, but always advise my caching pals that I wouldn't mind returning with them

Sorry to accuse you of trolling. I see now that you were quite serious. Very strange bug, there. Maybe your computer thought you needed a bit more Barack in your life.

I still don't believe you. I use Chrome as well and nobama. Just the same ole smiley face. I could see GS doing something like that for April fools, but I doubt they'd use an American president since they have such a worldwide customers base.

This

I looked. I don't know why. But I looked. Now I feel trolled. :-D

On the other fin, I'd say that's how they got so many finds! Look for a minute, toss a throwdown! They don't accept the possibility of a DNF! No! We find everything! I sometimes wonder what percentage of their finds are throwdowns? My classic example is: Fun in the Hamptons - Coney in the sky A great cache using pulleys inside a hollow tree to lower some pine cones, with a bison tube cache. Tree was cut down in March of 2011. A few DNFs testify to that. Megacacher replaced it (even though the tree it was hidden in had been cut down.) Need that find! No DFs for me! Another megacacher replaced it a few days later! Lots of DNFs by cachers following the original cache page. Who cares if the magnolia tree was cut soen, and the cache page makes no sense?!? There are throwdowns to be found! Finally both throwdowns disappeared. And it was archived. The CO had disappeared and did not do maintenance. But the throwdowners prevailed for a year or so. Really sad! It was a great cache! It seems that, based on your narrative, what caused it to stop being a great cache was the tree being cut down and the owner going AWOL, not the miscreants who replaced the cache. While your statement is true, sbell, I see the point the Harry is trying to make. With the tree down and the cache inoperable and/or missing,the cache should've been archived and laid to rest. Instead, it was reanimated with throwdowns, leaving Cachers to think it was still the same great cache that it always was. The multiple throwdowns left at this cache are almost like zombies. They brought the listing back to life, but it's not the same cache anymore. Just an empty shell of a location with a false notion that something legitimate still exists. I agree with what you are saying, but it should be noted that every single cacher that looked for the cache after the tree was felled could have sent a NM or a SBA. The underlying problem is still an AWOL owner. Could have and should have. Looks like that came later when all of the throwdowns finally went missing. I love how somebody even says in their log that they "found all 3!" That's a straight up throwdown party.

On the other fin, I'd say that's how they got so many finds! Look for a minute, toss a throwdown! They don't accept the possibility of a DNF! No! We find everything! I sometimes wonder what percentage of their finds are throwdowns? My classic example is: Fun in the Hamptons - Coney in the sky A great cache using pulleys inside a hollow tree to lower some pine cones, with a bison tube cache. Tree was cut down in March of 2011. A few DNFs testify to that. Megacacher replaced it (even though the tree it was hidden in had been cut down.) Need that find! No DFs for me! Another megacacher replaced it a few days later! Lots of DNFs by cachers following the original cache page. Who cares if the magnolia tree was cut soen, and the cache page makes no sense?!? There are throwdowns to be found! Finally both throwdowns disappeared. And it was archived. The CO had disappeared and did not do maintenance. But the throwdowners prevailed for a year or so. Really sad! It was a great cache! It seems that, based on your narrative, what caused it to stop being a great cache was the tree being cut down and the owner going AWOL, not the miscreants who replaced the cache. While your statement is true, sbell, I see the point the Harry is trying to make. With the tree down and the cache inoperable and/or missing,the cache should've been archived and laid to rest. Instead, it was reanimated with throwdowns, leaving Cachers to think it was still the same great cache that it always was. The multiple throwdowns left at this cache are almost like zombies. They brought the listing back to life, but it's not the same cache anymore. Just an empty shell of a location with a false notion that something legitimate still exists.