L0ne.R

Which brings me to my story about how stats can affect Favorite points. Someone's stats goal affects an owner's goal. My goal as an owner is to provide a good geocaching experience. The Favorite Point count helps advertise my cache as one that should hopefully provide the majority of cachers with an all-round enjoyable experience. I was batting about 50% FP rate after about 40 finds on my cache. Then along comes a group of 50 people on a special holiday, looking to find as many non-trads as possible that special day to qualify for a number of different challenge caches including Fizzy and 10-10-10 and to break their previous non-trad record. Since maybe only 4 people actually saw the cache, the cache got only 2 FPs that day. Dropped the % to 20%. I get the kick to the gut from losing FPs - in my case losing a big percentage. I see FPs as foremost a community tool, a way to advertise a cache to others that they too might enjoy finding the cache. I don't like to see FPs used as a way to bolster stats. I don't trust FP numbers. A CO with a lot of FPs could mean a popular event-going/event-hosting CO who likes to place lots of caches (100s, maybe 1000s). Often they hide too many to maintain and leave it to reviewers to archive as they continue to hide more caches and get more FP points. Tie a bison to a barbie doll or plastic butterfly and watch the FPs flow in. Do something that is against the guidelines and watch the FPs flow in because the cache is "unique". Get a lot of FPs in the first year, by year 3 it's a falling-apart mess, it still looks like it's a great cache and a great owner because it has double digit FPs.

I filter out micros, and often note in my logs when a cache is a micro, not a small. I will also copy and paste the information in the Help Centre about volume. About 5% of cache owners change the posted size. So is listing a micro as a small intentional? In many cases I think it is. That's why GCHQ has to step in and make it clear what the difference between a micro and small is, especially in the cache submission form and on the cache description page. Also, I think including an image of the cache and/or detailed description of the container to the reviewer would help.

For decades people have complained about micros listed as small. There are things Groundspeak could do to stop this, or at least drastically decrease micros listed as small. But GCHQ in fact made it more confusing. In the beginning the sizes were listed up front, by volume. Now it's a chart of photos with no volumes listed. Size What size is your geocache? Other Micro Small Regular Large Some people seem to interpret small as anything from a bison tube to the size of a hand-size container. GCHQ puts the volumes in another area in the help centre, which is not that easy to find. I have to google it each time, to find it. They could list the sizes under the 'Size' section of the 'Hide a Cache' page. But for at least a decade they have not made the simple change. ----------------------------------------------------------- https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=97&pgid=815. 6.11. Cache container sizes Geocaches come in all shapes and sizes. The definitions below can help you choose the correct size for your cache. The names of container sizes differ slightly between our website and app, but the definitions are the same. Micro (XS) Micro containers are less than 100 milliliters. They’re about the size of a film canister, or smaller. They can hold a tiny logbook or log sheet. If a micro cache is less than 10 milliliters, it’s often called a nano cache. Small (S) Small containers are 100 milliliters to 1 liter. They’re about the size of an apple. They can hold a small logbook and trade items. Regular (M) Regular containers are 1 to 20 liters. They’re about the size of a shoebox. Many of these caches are ammo cans. Large (L) Large containers are more than 20 liters. They're larger than a shoebox. Buckets, bins, or even railroad freight cars can be large containers. Other (--) Some containers just don't fit into size categories, like a magnetic sheet with a logbook attached. See the cache description for more information.

It does tell us one thing.... read the description. The final is not at the posted coordinates.

Really good points. + = + = + = The current LBH cache type icon tells us nothing about the actual cache type. -----

One thing to consider is the original owner of a highly favored cache loses that cache from their cache hiding history once they transfer it to someone else. It could also substantially change under a new owner.

Here's the help page from 2012. I've highlighted parts in red that are relevant to the FP tool being a community tool: 1.6. Favorites [Updated August 2012] Geocaching Favorites is a simple way to track and share the geocaches that you enjoyed the most. For every 10 geocaches that you have found, you will be able to Favorite 1 exceptional geocache in your find history. The Favorites accumulated by a geocache are displayed in search results and on the geocache page so everyone can see which caches stand above the rest. What does it mean when people say a geocache is a Favorite geocache? A Favorite can mean many different things. It could mean that the location is interesting or unusual in some way, or that the hiding place or geocache container itself reflects the creativity of the geocache owner. The one thing you can say for certain is that the overall quality of the geocache is likely to be above average. Who can earn Favorite Points? Only Premium Members earn Favorite Points. They get one point just for being a Premium Member, then further points by logging geocaching finds, at the rate of 1 Favorite Point per 10 finds. Can Favorite Points be spent on any geocache? Not exactly. You need to find a geocache in person and log your find on the website before awarding a Favorite to that geocache. To award a Favorite point, go to a geocache listing that you have logged as found; on the right side you'll be able to click "Add to your Favorites". We want geocachers to trust Favorites, and who better to gauge the quality of a geocache than someone who personally found it, and returned to tell the tale? If I purchase a Premium Membership later, will I be awarded Favorite Points for the geocaches I found when I was a Basic Member? Yes - for first-time subscriptions! If you upgrade to Premium Membership we will add up your past geocaching finds and award Favorite Points accordingly. From there you can visit the geocache pages you found while still a Basic Member and "spend" the Favorite Points on the best ones. However, if your subscription lapses for any reason, you will not be granted Favorite Points until you renew your Premium Membership. At which time the Favorite Points will start accruing again. You are only prorated Favorite Points the first time you subscribe. My Favorite Points total doesn't seem to match my find count. Why? Only the first "Found it!" log (or the equivalent "smiley" log for Webcam and Event Geocaches) that you post to the geocache page counts toward your total Favorite Points; duplicate finds are not calculated. Finds on geocaches that you own are also not included. The result is that your Favorite Points count may be slightly less than 10% of your total geocache finds. I had a great time at a geocaching event recently. Can I Favorite the geocache? Since the point of Favorites is to recommend great caching experiences to others, it doesn't really make sense to spend a Favorite point on an event which has already taken place. For this reason Event Geocaches do not accept the awarding of Favorite Points. Be sure to tell the event host how much you enjoyed the event in your geocache log. Can I get the Favorite Point returned if a geocache is archived? When a geocache is archived the Favorite Point remains with the geocache. Removing a Favorite Point from an archived geocache and awarding it to a new one is up to you. Visit your Favorites List and look for geocaches with the red strikethrough indicating that they are archived, and then remove the geocache from your Favorites List to free up the Favorite Point. There is nothing wrong with leaving a Favorite Point on an archived geocache if you prefer it. How can I find geocaches near me with the most Favorites Points? Do a search for geocaches the way you normally do, then click on the icon at the top of the list. This will allow you to see the geocaches within your search that have the most Favorite Points at the top of the search results. You can access your Favorites List by going to http://www.geocaching.com/my/favorites.aspx To learn more about the features of your Geocaching Premium membership, go to http://www.geocaching.com/my/subscription.aspx.

True, not the same funtionality. Based on that reasoning, perhaps we need cache type icons for : night caches, UV caches, CHIRP caches, tree-climbing, so people who like these types of caches can find them on the map at a glance.

When FPs were first included in the database, the help centre specifically said they were a recommendation tool to help others find great caches. For years people asked Groundspeak to give us a system where we could find better caches. We wanted a way to separate the "wheat from the chaff", no one said, give me a way to create a list of caches I like. That was already available. Every PM can create a list of caches they enjoyed.

Also Mystery caches show up on the map. A mystery cache with a stamp shows up on the map as a Mystery cache. You can then filter for stamps using the filter options.

But attributes are filterable.

Would you still enjoy the cache if it were listed as a "?" and had clues? Example. From ground zero, walk 75 steps to a large beech tree where you will see a small trail. Walk another 75 steps down the trail to a boulder. The cache is behind the boulder under some leaves. How does the LBH icon make the mystery cache a better cache?

What are the stamps like in your area? Are they unique, or are they craft store (or dollar store) type stamps that don't match the theme of the letterbox? Generally, in my area they are any old commercial stamp found at the dollar store or in Michael's $1 bin or from the kids' toybox. Here's an example, the theme of the cache had nothing to do with spiderman:

Currently I have way more than enough FPs to give, so running low on them is not an issue for me. Back before 2012, I ran out of them frequently. But I felt it was more important to use the FP system as intended, as a tool to help others find good caches. So I removed them from archived caches. One way to alleviate the guilt is to start a public list. Here's mine, I call it "Archived Favourites". Now that I have a lot of FPs to give, I leave them on archived caches but I will remove them from archived caches that ended up abandoned - generally, reviewer archived caches. I don't want my name on the list of people who rewarded an irresponsible cache owner.

From the help center 2.4. Letterbox Hybrids Tribute to letterboxing Letterbox Hybrids are based on an older kind of container search, called letterboxing. Because letterboxing began in 1854, before GPS existed, the finder follows written instructions to discover the container. Each letterbox contains a logbook, and a rubber stamp. When letterboxers find the container, they stamp the logbook with their personal stamp, and also stamp their own notebook with the stamp from the letterbox as a souvenir of their visit. The stamp and logbook remain in the letterbox for the next visitor to use. Letterbox Hybrids - a geocache type The geocaching version, Letterbox Hybrids, combines the use of GPS, and the stamps of letterboxing. As with all geocaches, this cache type must include GPS usage. In addition, the cache description can contain written instructions to guide geocachers to the container. A Letterbox Hybrid container must contain: A rubber stamp A logbook Tip: It is good practice to remind other cachers on the cache page, that the rubber stamp is not a trade item but intended to stay within the cache. Cache owners must replace the stamp if it goes missing. Letterbox Hybrids and their underlying cache type When you add a stamp to your cache, the cache type changes to Letterbox Hybrid but the guidelines for the underlying cache type still apply. The only exceptions are Wherigo Caches, challenge caches, and bonus caches. + = + = + = + =

Any time I suggest that LBHs be grandfathered, people get up in arms. The LBHs fall under the mystery/puzzle category, since an offset cache without a stamp falls under the mystery/puzzle category. People get upset about losing the icon, not because they love letterboxes. No one seems to care about the stamp part of letterboxing. In the official Letterboxing world, the unique handcrafted or commissioned stamp is an important part of the hobby, it proves you visited the location and collected an image of the unique stamp. People want the LBH icon. It's definitely about stats/grid-filling/challenges. We don't care about the stamp, but that's the unique definition of the LBH on the geocaching site.

Archived caches keep their Favorite points. You can choose to remove a Favorite point from an archived geocache to award it to a new one. Visit your Favorites List to find out which of your Favorited caches are archived. https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=7&pgid=287

I've made that mistake. When my gps took me to a birdhouse. No description or hint to help me pin-point where the cache could actually be. I have checked a birdhouse only to find out it was actually a birdhouse. Thankfully I didn't disturb a nest. Never did find the cache.

The Pringles can caches reminds me of one I found that didn't take much effort. A frozen orange can juice container duct taped to a garden bamboo stick. Inside the frozen orange can container was a baggie with a bit of paper. It was roadside lying by a tree. It actually got a lot of favourite points. Maybe because the title was a play on the word orange... "Orange you glad you found me".

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=22&pgid=718 [ I've highlighted the sections below: ] 1.6. Environmentally friendly geocaching These tips will help you protect the environment while geocaching in the great outdoors! To learn more about our environmental initiative, check out Cache In Trash Out®. Tips for cache owners Get permission from land managers Check nearby geocaches and calculate the number of logs per month. This helps managers decide if additional visitors are sustainable for the environment. Create a comprehensive cache page Choose appropriate ratings for difficulty and terrain, and include a good hint. This helps prevent geocachers from leaving unnecessary “geotrails." Mention local regulations and seasonal policies. Choose an appropriate sized container Searching for a small container in the forest is often fruitless and leads to disturbing wildlife. Don’t put food or scented items in your cache Items like chewing gum, candles, air fresheners, and the like can attract animals that may chew the container and get sick. Place your cache near an existing trail Add a waypoint for the trailhead so people won’t have to bushwhack. Hide your cache without harming wildlife No chopping, cutting, digging, or burrowing. Don’t use permanent fasteners to attach your cache to trees or shrubs. Work with your reviewer Give your reviewer detailed information about the location and placement of your cache. They’ll let you know if your cache poses problems for wildlife. Don’t leave cache trash Make sure to remove your cache container from its hiding spot when You archive your cache. You submit a cache for publication but your cache does not pass the cache review process.

I agree on your points: No indication it is a cache. Looks like another piece of trash among trash at ground zero. Tossed into the bushes with appartently little consideration for location or hide, when there is a better location nearby. 20-30m away from posted coordinates. And add: Gladware is not designed for outdoor use. It is a temporary disposable container to store food in for a short period of time. There is no gasket. It is not watertight. It deteriorates quickly. The lid will crack after about 10 visits. After the first couple of rainy days the contents will be damp/wet/soaked.

Thank you. I'll have a look. Hopefully I can figure out filters. This could be very useful for me.

Would you be able to point me to some online instruction on how to exclude caches by Owners on GSAK. I'd like to exclude multiple owners.

Not much changed after the "quality" survey.