Hertzog

One of the really nice things about saving to the card a la the 60CSx approach is the ability to not have to worry about managing tracks during extended trips. I routinely let my 60CSx log at a 1 sscond rate, and then every month or so when I think about it download the accumulated files to my computer. That way, I can go back to any day and time if I later find a need to, without worrying about doing something about it at the time I'm recording it. It would really be nice to have this kind of capability on the PN-40, and should be easy to implement, and from what I can see would be one of the features I would really miss on the PN-40 if they can't provide it. I agree that automatic intervals would also be a good feature, although less easy to implement (at least something akin to the Garmin algorithm - they've done an excelent job there). Although as I indicated above my prefered method is the brute force 1 second interval, most people using Garmins by far prefer the automatic approach.

The accuracy algorithm in the 60CSx tends to give higer readings than the 60CS under the same conditions, but my experience is that the 60CSx will be actually be getting better accuacy under those conditions. If you still have the 60CS, let them track side by side for maybe about 30 minutes, noting the accuracy readings and the spread of the breadcrumb trail (this works best if you are logging at a 1 second rate). My experience in this kind of test is that the accuracies reported by the 60CSx will be higher, but the spread of points lower. That being said, the 15-30 foot numbers seem high for good tracking conditions; I would expect numbers in the 10-15 range, getting below 10 feet on occasion.

I think one of the problems is that the question to Garmin did not say anything about the "Power Off" mode, so the response was probably only addressing the normal power on operation.

A system restore back to just before you updated might do the trick.

I tried the "extended arm" approach today, and I have to say that it seems to work for me. Over the past 7 years or so I've attempted to get good calibrations on three different GPSrs (Vista, 60CS and 60CSx) and have never ever been really happy with the results; I've always been left with about a 5 to 10 degree error, but never could figure whether it was the GPSr, my calibration technique, or my sighting technique. After just the one extended arm calibration the maps nicely align to the real world now in the "track up" mode (they have always been clearly rotated before), and sightings taken along roads clearly line up with the roads (usually they are about 5 to 10 degrees off). Haven't tried sighting any distant objects yet, but I would expect similar results. I would say I am now getting within 1 degree, 2 at the outside. Could be just a one-time fluke of course, but it IS the first time in about 7 years that I can remember getting readings that I really like. I'm thinking that extending the arm may be getting the GPSr away from metallic objects on the body (belt buckles, knives, cameras etc.) that could distort the local magnetic field and introduce errors in the calibration. I've always been aware of these possible effects and tried to minimize them, but if you are holding it in your hand close to your body and either turning it in your hand or spinning yourself, there is only so much you can do. I'll continue to use this "extended arm" approach as long as I get good results. Thanks to the OP for bringing it up.

I think I like jholly's approach the best Seriously, it doesn't really matter HOW you rotate it, just that you rotate it twice, holding it level, and at a continuous moderate speed. About all that can really be "calibrated" are the output amplitudes of the two sensors (probably offsets, and possibly relative magnitudes - Garmin won't tell us what they do, and I haven't seen any indications in the many past threads on this subject that anyone has delved into it). The unit will tell you if you are holding it level and turning at the right rate, so when your friend is holding it at arms length he will not be able to get that feedback. However, once you have the "feel" for those things you don't need to refer to them continuously, and it occurs to me that holding it at arm's length might help to keep it level; the next time I calibrate I'll try that out. Bottom line, if you find an approach that you feel works for you, use it.

Some people have reported problems like this if they push buttons while the 60CSx is acquiring (the power button, mostly, and one person pushed the "Find"). This may be a bug introduced in one of the more recent firmware updates. To be safe, I try not to do anything until the unit is tracking (well, this morning I violated that, but luckily nothing bad happened )

Just a thought - having "Lock on roads" set might do something like that. I don't particularly like lock on roads so rarely use it, but worth checking to see if you have it set.

Thought the X was the newer high sencitive reciever ?? That's the H as in HCx When the 60Cx/60CSx came out the "x" referred to both the added memory card and the new high sensitive chip. Generally speaking, it's probably best to look at the detailed specs rather than to rely on the letters in the model name to determine what a particular model has, although they are useful to keep track of what model has what once you are familiar with the details.

The gpx file for the day will be one big file, but once you've loaded it into MapSource you will find that there are multiple separate tracks - one for each time you turn it on again and possibly others where it breaks track (just like you would see if you downloaded the usual active tracks into MapSource. You will proabably still have some editing to clean it up to your liking), but no so bad as you might think.

Interesting development, but it will be very frustrating if they limit it to SD cards.

As you say, this has been a much requested and discussed feature that some of us would like to see added; should be simple as you indicate, but Garmin seems to be reluctant to add it for some reason. Meanwhile, there is a work-around that is available with the 60CSx (don't know about the other "Sx" models: If you are flying, put it in "Fixed Elevation" mode; in this mode the GPS altitude will be logged in the active track and the gpx file in place of hte barometric altitude. Not perfect, as the data fields will still display only the barometric altitude, but at least you get a record of the filght (you can also see it in the elevation profile, but only if you play around with the scroll button).

There is a known problem with the 60CSx: they can fry Ultras, so you may have lost your card entirely. I think this has been fixed with later GPSr models, so that's probably why it worked with the Venture Cx. However, if the maps were originally loaded for the Venture Cx they probably won't work with the 60CSx; this would defintely be the case if the maps (CN) have to be unlocked for the unit.

Make sure you haven't set it to the "Battery Saver" mode; this is often the problem when people suddenly start seeing large errors.

I looked at 5 tracks, including one 13000 point file. Didn't see any anomolies other than jumps at the end of tracks, and I think that these were prior to more recent firmware updates. Most of my tracks are at 1 sec intervals, so it is quite possible that the error is related to use of auto track. I did find two auto track files from June '06, (no mid-track problems on either, but end track jumps on both). June '06 was before they added the capability of saving tracks to the SD card, so I may have more tracks from that time period in auto that I can check.

I've seen occasional jumps at the end of a track log, but I don't recall seeing any in the middle. Of course, you wouldn't really see that unless you were looking closely, or maybe plotting the data, so I can't say I've never had a problem.

Speaking of your original problem, have you checked your datum setting and the position format? I didn't see that mentioned in any of the posts, but may have overlooked it.

OK, to go a little off-topic here, all I can think about after reading this post is of someone walking around with a 60CSx and 3 Rinos in hand Any chance you could post a picture of this, or at least describe the setup?

The problem of road loaction in Topo 2008 (as with the previous Topo products) is well known. They basically stayed with the road information of the USGS paper maps, which is probably 30 or 40 years old by now (that may be overstating it a bit ) For good road locations you really need City Nav or a recent copy of Metroguide.

The problem of road loaction in Topp 2008 (as with the previous Topo products) is well known. They basically stayed with the road information of the USGS paper maps, which is probably 30 or 40 years old by now (that may be overstating it a bit ) For good road locations you really need City Nav or a recent copy of Metroguide.

Clouds and rain shouldn't affect it directly, but if you are in tree cover the water that collects on the leaves can affect performance.

2X is about what I've gotten when I've tested in a GPS. Also your point about the flat curve is very pertinent; I always make it a point to have a fresh set handy when I'm using them. When they go they go!

The blurring is an intermediate step; if you wait long enough it should clear up (at least that's what I am seeing). I think everything you are seeing starts with this Beta version.

I don't think they weight them. I could be wrong, and am only speaking for the 60CS/CSx models. I took a close look at some data once, and the averaging looked to be a simple average of the points involved. By the way, it may be useful to know that when you mark a waypoint the elevation recorded is the barometric elevation, but when you average it switches to the GPS elevation (again, I'm talking about the 60CS/CSx models in particular, but I think it is probably true for all Garmins with waypoint averaging -- except the non-barometer models would of necessity always use the GPS elevation). Probably not a crucial consideration in most geocaching locations, but good to know -- and something Garmin doesn't mention in their manual.

On the 60CSx if you select the barometer or ambient pressure plot the data field at the bottom will display mbars to 0.1 mbar. One way to ekk out a little more accuracy, but I've decided it's impractical, since I generally want to see the ambient and barometric pressures and the elevation all at once when I'm looking that closely at things.