Chuck B

Generally that's the law when it comes to abandoned property. Caches are not abandoned but that particular law is broad enough to cover caches in most jurisdictions. Litter is the wrong law (again the specific wording for this jurisdiction is key, but in general caches don't fit most litter laws) based on discussions with an Assistant US District Attorney that I've had on another matter related to caching. Just as there is no higher purpose for caches to annoy park staff over the issue, there is no higher purpose to park staff annoying their caching public. I'm curious why Renegade Knight and Team Cotati who I assume live in Idaho and Northern California have become experts on ABDSP? I guess I'ts their right to use the forums, but this is more of a local issue for cachers who use the Anza Borrego Desert State Park. Would you two please explain this for me.

M.R. How are the negotiations with Jorgenson going? Or are they going at all? CB

Congrats!! I better hide some more...:-)) Now I know why you were in such a hurry to find the new one at Las Palmas Park. You know this is a never ending quest. Congrats. also. Chuck

CONGRATS TO ALL THE ABOVE AND TO TANNER-SCOUT, TONY AND TANNER FOR VERY QUICKLY GETTING TO 400 CACHES!!!

Thanks Skillet. If you talk to him or see him, tell him his caching family is wishing him the best. If he needs anything he can just let us know. r. JnJ I received a return email right away. He said that he would take my advice and ask for a pacemaker with GPS capability. Goldilocks of Baldy & Goldilocks has had a pacemaker for years now and gets along grand with it. Sent Bob a note and received a nice reply. Also, my wife was reading her Woman's World magazine and told me there was something very familiar about a story in it. The whole story was about how a young man who sent his mother out to the cemetary to find a GPS cache and how he also sent his teacher there too. It was labeled Romantic Fiction. It's interesting how geocaching is catching on. For you gals it's in Woman's World, January 14th. It's one of the magazines they sell at the checkout counter.

I am going to sound a little bitter, but what causes more damage to the park, people or dogs? I try to follow the rules wherever I go and I haven't been out to ABDSP but give me a break. My dog has never dumped garbage(specifically beers cans and bottles), never carved his name in anything, never purposely tried to run over an animal on the road, taken his vehicle offroading(don't think this bad but using it as an example), never stolen from or damaged archaeological sites, never dug up an archaelogical site(legally or not), etc. All these do more damage than anything my dog could do, but dogs are banned? Give me a break. And yes I do carry out my dogs feces whenever possible, which is more than most backcountry backpackers do. Just me spouting. No need for a response. Agree, there has always been a balancing act between use and preservation. Those tradeoffs are reflected in the historically different approaches of the National Park Service and the National Forest Service and the BLM as well as the State Parks. We're definitely not anti-dog. The majority of owners we know are very responsible regard to canine and human etiquette. Just pointing out the rules that apply to ABDSP to some who may not be aware of them. The recent logs that triggered the forum post specifically mentioned opportunities to chase animals. Whether or not the posts were done tongue in cheek (or jowl), it is not the kind of activity we want to promote in conjunction with geocaching. Thanks for listening. -GD Being a volunteer at Rancho Cuyamaca State Park gives me an insight to what Gecko Dad is saying. In that park dogs are only allowed in the campgrounds and on any paved road or path. They are not allowed on trails or in any wilderness area. Why? There are a variety of wild animals in the parks. When dogs mark their territory by peeing this upsets them and their natural habits. Dogs also chase wild animals at times, bark and do a variety of things that upset the natural animals. Also, we have cougars roaming the parks, yes, they're in Borrego and Cuyamaca both. If a dog is wandering the park or even on a leash, which they have to be at all times, they can still be attacked and eaten. We meet people on the trails who are letting their dogs run free. This can result in a costly ticket to an owner if the rangers so decide. I know how Warmouse feels as I had a dog who I liked to take hiking. But, please observe the park rules. Flaunting them can only make it that much harder for we geocachers to be accepted in the parks. CB

One advantage of archiving caches is that the ADSP people won't be able to get the coordinates for them. Unless they've already run PQs on the whole place, the cache effectively "vanishes" until you have time to run out and pick it up. My thought is this that if you pick up a cache don't archive it and let it drive the rangers nuts looking all over the desert for it. They probably have lists already because I talked to one of the rangers I know who told me some time ago that Jorgenson had been sending them out to get caches. This isn't something new and I told someone about it at the last campout. You won't be able to change his mind either as he is a naturelist and hates caching with a vengence. I've known this for some time as I heard it from people at Cuyamaca. If you write to complain, send your letters to the higher ups in Sacramento. Chuck, how long has this guy been around? If they have been picking up caches since October why haven't we heard anything about it until recently? It's funny how we can pick up two truckloads of trash off the same two mile stretch of highway every six months and yet we are the problem... I agree with the last part of what you said. Maybe we should move our CITO to a place out of the park and let Jorgensen know why we did that. He has been superindendent of Borrego for at least two or three years. He has been employed there for a number of years though. I think mainly as a nature specialist. Also I forgot to mention that the new superintendent at Cuyamaca was the superintendent at the Off Road Park at Ocotillo Wells. She is favorable to geocaching and evidently has been in her part of the desert. So, cachers who have caches hidden in the off road part probably do not need to remove those caches. Any cachers putting caches at Cuyamaca still need them okayed by the park. Maybe Borrego should set up something like that or like SDRP. If you plan on putting caches at Cuyamaca, make sure they're okayed by the park staff before putting them there. There are currently three that are okayed there. In Borrego, since I heard from a source in the desert, they have been directed to pick up caches for about a year and a half to two years. I was told that one of the ones was at one of the palm groves located between S22 and Highway 78, another was in Culp Valley.

One advantage of archiving caches is that the ADSP people won't be able to get the coordinates for them. Unless they've already run PQs on the whole place, the cache effectively "vanishes" until you have time to run out and pick it up. My thought is this that if you pick up a cache don't archive it and let it drive the rangers nuts looking all over the desert for it. They probably have lists already because I talked to one of the rangers I know who told me some time ago that Jorgenson had been sending them out to get caches. This isn't something new and I told someone about it at the last campout. You won't be able to change his mind either as he is a naturelist and hates caching with a vengence. I've known this for some time as I heard it from people at Cuyamaca. If you write to complain, send your letters to the higher ups in Sacramento. Chuck, how long has this guy been around? If they have been picking up caches since October why haven't we heard anything about it until recently? It's funny how we can pick up two truckloads of trash off the same two mile stretch of highway every six months and yet we are the problem...

One advantage of archiving caches is that the ADSP people won't be able to get the coordinates for them. Unless they've already run PQs on the whole place, the cache effectively "vanishes" until you have time to run out and pick it up. My thought is this that if you pick up a cache don't archive it and let it drive the rangers nuts looking all over the desert for it. They probably have lists already because I talked to one of the rangers I know who told me some time ago that Jorgenson had been sending them out to get caches. This isn't something new and I told someone about it at the last campout. You won't be able to change his mind either as he is a naturelist and hates caching with a vengence. I've known this for some time as I heard it from people at Cuyamaca. If you write to complain, send your letters to the higher ups in Sacramento.

Congrats Tanner_Scout on 300

--> QUOTE(Chuck B @ Oct 31 2007, 03:56 PM) 3139674[/snapback] Great minds think alike... I was once up to a 19-mile radius before the likes of J&J, Chuy!, BBB and Lostguy started going wild in them thar hills... It really broke my heart to have to disable all those caches in Sweetwater. It brought back all the memories of the fun we had placing them and making "Lostguy" climb another hill after another hill..not to mention the miles and miles we had Cegrube and BBB Dad running. Time will tell if we're allowed back. I'm glad John is amassing ammo cans in Fallon...we'll need them. Lostguy reported my German butter dishe survived the fire on Sweetwater. The camo tape and plastic insert did not, but the container did . I went up to the burn area today just above Eastlake to see what had happened to a couple of my caches. I suspected that if they were in the burn area they were toast. One of them was #6 of the powerline series. I started walking up through the burned area from the large power pole. Everything had been really burned and scorched. I didn't hold out much hope for this cache. When I got to the area where the cache had been I looked around, but didn't see much except burned grass and plants. I was just about to leave when out of the corner of my eye I saw something blue. You who have found this one will remember I hid an M&M container in an old blue platic oil can. I picked up the blue object and it was the oil container, not burned at all. I looked in it, but no M&M. I decided to look a little further and lo and behold, quite near was the M&M container. I checked it out and it wasn't even touched by the fire. Go figure. Everything else was really burned. I guess it was a miracle or something. The area up on top of the hill where my Auld View cache is was not burned. I checked on the area where the Flats cache was, but no luck. Sorry John and Jodi.

Great minds think alike... I was once up to a 19-mile radius before the likes of J&J, Chuy!, BBB and Lostguy started going wild in them thar hills... It really broke my heart to have to disable all those caches in Sweetwater. It brought back all the memories of the fun we had placing them and making "Lostguy" climb another hill after another hill..not to mention the miles and miles we had Cegrube and BBB Dad running. Time will tell if we're allowed back. I'm glad John is amassing ammo cans in Fallon...we'll need them. Lostguy reported my German butter dishe survived the fire on Sweetwater. The camo tape and plastic insert did not, but the container did .

Way to Go Chuck B! are you still hand inputting the coords? Thanks for noticing. Yes I still hand load now in my 60csx. I'm still waiting for Garmin to do something for Apple computer owners. WOW!! Congrats Chuck!!!!! We knew we placed that cache for a reason!! Keep on cachin! The Splashes

CONGRATS TO THE KWVERS, JIM AND DENICE FOR 4900. KEEP GOING.

How about those Kwvers, Jim and Denice now passed 4900!!!

Thanks Guys. Concerning Seymour Rocks I'm getting like Skillet I hate rocks!

That was also my first event. I was right behind Flagman with the yellow shirt. The Splashes were the first geocachers I met while caching.

Thanks, JnJ and Chris. And Congrats. to all others making monumental milestones lately and especially that guy masquerading as Ramius who works for us so hard. Chuck

There's always one in the bunch. The ranger we met at the event was very cool. Anyhow, I wonder what he would have said if you had asked him where it says that caches are illegal in ABDSP. I can't find anything on their website.... You weren't even in the park so cache on people. There was a difference between the ranger that visited the campout and ABDSP rangers. The ranger that visited us was on lone from Lake Paris and working for the Ocotillo Wells Off Road Park. Administered a little different than the rest of ABDSP. The superintendant of ABDSP hates caches and is the one who tells the rangers to destroy them. I happen to know one of them and they are usually nice guys, but are just following orders.

Where is this area you'll be caching? Is is a 4x4 route? No, it's closed to vehicles. Hike only. It's on Lyons Valley Road near Lake Barrett Honor Camp.

Thats a Funny Video I remember pulling Fatboy out of a ditch a few years back also Thanks for sharing the video! Great Memories SlabyFam October 26, 2003. I was there with Tim and got a picture of the above event. I'll try to post it.

When I went over to my tent to go to bed the wind was blowing so hard it had moved the tent about two or three feet even though it was tied to my truck by three ropes. It had already broken one pole which we fixed. I decided then I would sleep better in the truck, so took blanket and pillow and slept in the passenger seat with it put all the way down. I also had dropped the tent, so it wouldn't blow away or create more damage. In the morning it had a lot of sand inside.

Happy Birthday! Thanks Guys! We had a great time with everyone as short as it was. TA How was the wind last night? I dont know what the speed was, probably 45/50 mph. Three tents had their polls broken, but ours was ok. I enjoyed it all, but it make sleeping a little crazy! Been there done that. My son and I once woke up in the desert with our tent laying on top of us because the wind broke both the poles on our tent. At least when they broke, it stopped all the zippers from jingling and the sides from flapping loudly and hitting us so we could finally get to sleep...

Happy Birthday! Thanks Guys! We had a great time with everyone as short as it was. TA How was the wind last night? I dont know what the speed was, probably 45/50 mph. Three tents had their polls broken, but ours was ok. I enjoyed it all, but it make sleeping a little crazy! Been there done that. My son and I once woke up in the desert with our tent laying on top of us because the wind broke both the poles on our tent. At least when they broke, it stopped all the zippers from jingling and the sides from flapping loudly and hitting us so we could finally get to sleep...

I'm not finding them as fast as I'd like to, too many other things going on, but I keep plugging along. And Congrats to all the others that are making great milestones. Chuck