Clancy's Crew

Love the comments about the GZ that is vertically challenging. When I go on 5 terrain extreme caches, the TOTT are pretty extensive... For vertical caches, all this stuff is in a backpack. Since this type of cache has to have multiple people going (safety), some of this stuff is shared. Rope Harness Climbing gear (usually RADS, a frog or a rope-climber) Rappel gear (ATC, figure 8, rack, croll) Carabiners Helmet with lamp Rope protectors for sharp edges Flashlight For the cave or mine caches, have to add smartwool clothing to keep warm For the tree caches, a way to shoot a fishing line over a branch above the container, and parachute cord to pull over with the fishing line. The cord is used to pull up the rope. Over the years, we used an arborist slingshot, a baseball with an eyehook (under 20' target) and a CO2 powered potato gun. Camera to record the experience for the log A decade + ago, we had multiple CO's that would place 8-12 stage caches with at least a cliff or tree stage, a mine stage, and weird stages like in a culvert. We would spend 8-12 hours to complete the stages, many times ending in the dark and hiking back to the car in snow. THAT was fun. Example: GC22Y7Q; lots of pictures in my log using the TOTT for an extreme cache. Date of 2/14/2010. Fun times...

Great suggestions, all. Regarding gear, my mind always goes to safety initially. In our area of the US, (Pennsylvania), we have a hunting heritage and several million acres of public lands, much of it open to hunting... So along with the other safety basics (water, communications device, proper footwear and clothing, etc), during open hunting seasons (much of the year, at different times), 250 square inches of blaze orange clothing, visible from 360 degrees, including on the head (blaze orange hat works). Mistaken for game injuries to humans is rare because these rules are law in our area. We were checked for orange two weeks ago by a Game Warden while caching. For our Geohound, we put a blaze orange t-shirt on her; dog vests that are orange are also available... She looked too much like a coyote, which has open season all year.

Great comments from the veterans of the cache owners group. Glad to hear what your forward plan is; most of all, please do not give up. We need new people with different ideas to keep the sport going!

We have been hiking and caching in the woods in PA for many years (several decades), primarily State Forests, State Parks, State Game Lands (SGL), nature preserves and County parks. Just about all of them allow either unlimited hunting or limited hunting (e.g., bow hunting only) during the appropriate seasons. We always wear orange, as does our Geo-Hound Zoey (and predecessor Clancy) and avoid the woods for two+ weeks during rifle deer (just a crazy number of hunters) and spring gobbler turkey season (able to hunt without wearing orange; just place an orange band on the tree behind them). There are close to 1 million hunters in PA, and there is a strong hunting history here. We are on the State Game Lands MANY more times than the average hunter, and know certain state game lands very well. In the Poconos region (NE PA), there is a 44,000 acre SGL adjacent to a 5,000 acre STL, adjacent to a 10,000 acre State Forest. Nearby are two other SGLs. As pointed out in an early post, the SGL were paid for and are maintained by hunting licenses and Federal ammo fees. The State Forest, county parks and preserves are owned and maintained by the state or local govts or private foundations. Nearly all are open for hunting, since it is the most effective way to keep the deer and bear population, which are REALLY healthy, under control. PA is in the top 5 states for car/deer collisions, for example, and our comprehensive auto insurance reflects that. So, some observations. 1) Although I do not hunt, I took the hunter education course required by the PA Game Commission and buy a hunting license each year to support the game lands 2) As pointed out above, we do not go on any hunting lands during the peak hunting days for rifle deer and spring gobbler. 3) We wear orange all the time on hunting properties. It is required during certain hunting seasons anyway. 4) The State Legislature passed a law two years ago permitting the PA Game Commission to allow Sunday hunting on limited weekends, e.g., three Sundays in November 2021. Plus, coyotes, foxes, and crows are allowed to be hunted pretty much year around on Sundays in PA. 5) The PA State Game Lands total over 1 million acres. Geocaches are allowed to be placed on them, allowing people to enjoy beautiful vistas, waterfalls, etc. For those who feel they need to stay away from SGL's due to hunting, they are missing a great deal of caches, and the wonderful experiences associated with them. If you are uncomfortable around hunters, that is your prerogative to ignore these caches. The earlier comments in this thread about having only hunters wear orange is missing the mark. The category of "Mistaken for Game" in PA is one of the top reasons for death in PA, along with falling out of tree stands, etc. Wearing orange is for your personal safety. Wear your orange, and have your dog wear their orange (see the coyote comment about open season above). In my decades hiking in SGL, I've not had a bad interaction with a hunter, but I avoid the heavy season, am not arrogant, and always apologize for interrupting their hunting experience by walking by them with a dog. I remember a muzzleloader hunter in traditional garb, (buckskin jacket, etc.) respond to my apology by saying we were just as likely to drive deer toward him as away from him. Having a decent attitude goes a long way toward a friendly interaction with a hunter on game lands. Wearing orange, having a positive attitude and using common sense goes a long way toward having a safe and pleasant day caching on hunting lands.

As a high T cache owner/co-owner and someone with a bunch of 5T caches on our grid, a couple of comments. 1) I know of cachers who have done 10 or 12 stage, 10+ hour caches requiring rappelling, exploring in abandoned coal mines, etc. who loved the cache, but spend almost no time on their logs. That is just the way they are wired. As a cache owner, it is a bit disappointing not to have the validity of seeing a well written description with pictures of their cache, but there it is. So a short entry on a high D/T cache may not necessarily mean an armchair log. 2) For us, part of the pleasure of completing a high D/T cache is in describing the experience for the CO and others. Plus, that log entry is available for us to enjoy the cache again in the future, and it is a thank you to the CO. In the old days of GC.com, uploading photos was excruciating, and for the memorable caches we did back then, we'd have two dozen pictures, and due to the character limit on logs, a found it log and a follow-on WN log. The log process would literally take over an hour.... In today's smartphone app, numbers oriented hobby, it will take some research on a questionable logger before being sure they are an armchair logger.

In our area and to the region just north of us, the FTF unofficial game is pretty much out of control, with two sets of teams going out at night when published, getting FTF within hours of release, etc. As an aside, at least the rest of us future finders get an idea really quickly whether the coords in a new cache are good... We just published a couple a few weeks ago in a county park, and the Reviewer sent us an email in the evening that our caches had no issues but that they were not going to release the caches to the site until 9am the next day to keep people from violating the rules of the park by going out after nightfall to find the caches. Two take-a-ways from the facts above: 1) We have THE BEST Reviewer, who was willing to let us know that there were no issues and that the cache would be release the next day. 2) With this crazy FTF side game, why bother putting a FTF prize in a new cache? There is no need to motivate people to go get the new cache... Having said that, we are planning a cache that will require a somewhat obnoxious hike, and we will probably put something like scratch off lottery tickets or unactivated TB in that one.

We've recently run into caches in the middle of nowhere with the blue nitrile gloves stuffed in the container un-packaged. Given the container was wet inside, navigating around wet, disgusting (moldy) gloves was less than thrilling. If you are going to put that type of stuff in caches, unless they are in the original manufacturing sealed packaging, no thank you. Of course, it was been years since we've taken anything out of a cache to keep...

Sounds like a moneymaker... just put a hat down and watch the money come rolling in! Perfect way to finance a new gpsr...

Cerberus1 doing a guardrail hide... Film at 11! Never saw that coming... The thought of that makes me shiver, or maybe it is the 25 degree weather on yesterday's 8 mile hike in Sgl 135

Yes, there does seem to be a rather, ah, "contrarian" feel to many of the threads... Did I state that politically correct enough?

One of my favorites is a true 5/5 cache with a complicated puzzle, that got us wading the Potomac River to an island (river current too difficult with boats to go upstream) carrying a bottle jack, electrical equipment and a bunch of other stuff. We were early finders, July 2010, and didn't put pictures of the container up, but we did use the bottle jack and electrical stuff we brought. An ultimate gadget cache combined with a puzzle and 5 terrain. Plus, we got to wade back across the Potomac River at night. A grand adventure with a great story came out of it; hard to ask anything more of a geocache! PMCx - Listening Post GC1V3NZ The cache was one in a series of true 5/5 caches in Pa, Md, NJ, NY and Connecticut, with the bonus cache in central NY... A group of extreme cachers worked together on this PMCx series, and all of us had a great time completing it.

I think this would be a really entertaining stand-a-lone topic, given the rather intense reactions above on whether parking coords should be available to every cache. For those in countries celebrating the holiday, Happy Thanksgiving!!! May we all appreciate what we have!

Took some thought for this one... In 2009, a group of friends, my daughter and I did a 93' cave pit cache in Kentucky called Cavers Plunge, GCRVXB. https://coord.info/GCRVXB It was our 1,000th cache, and my daughter, who used RADS to climb most of her extreme caching life, chose to use the frog system to climb out of this cave. She practiced in a tree next to the cave pit, proved she could climb and change over with the system, and off we went. RIngneck snake, albino crayfish, three types of salamanders; all of these guys fell into the 93' pit at one time, or snuck in from the stream at the bottom. 48 people have found this cache, and from the logs, you can tell it is a favorite cache. I logged the find and a second note along with maybe 50 pictures describing the adventure. An excellent cache. Daughter rappelling Me rappelling Team's 1,000 cache, a memorable one. This cache triggered our caving craving, and last year I rappelled and climbed out of Golondrinas Cave in Mexico, 1,250'. Thanks for suggesting this thread; wonderful memories.

We placed two state game land cache series out during the covid19 pandemic which have been amazingly popular, given the long hikes required. The game lands that they are on is 45,000+ acres, so it is easy for seekers to feel isolated. Still briars, ticks, poisonous snakes and bears to be aware of, though... Who knows what they will find? This year we've seen eagles, turkey, fox, falcons, coyote... And very few people. With hunting season starting (archery deer and pheasant now open) we wear orange... Including the geo-hound. Another active local cacher put a 34 cache series on the same gamelands recently which is also quite popular. Glad people are putting out new ones in remote locations rather than disabling them.

We have a multi stage cache in a state game lands where the first stage was lost to game commission brush hogging (heavy duty mowing that takes out trees several inches in diameter) of the edge of the woods to enhance the area for wild turkey. A fellow geocacher who previously found the cache gave us the heads up. Hard to argue against more wildlife in a game land! I moved the stage. The change in the area was mind-boggling.

Although we are caching at our highest rate/day in a decade, we have placed more caches this year than in our cumulative caching history. 20+ caches this year vs 5 the previous 17 years. All hiking caches, 2/3 in a 40,000 acre state game land; easy to social distance. (And in late July, all the wild blueberries you can pick, which doesn't make the resident black bears happy.)

I am sure that this has been covered in the irks thread, but the person who came up with that challenge didn't understand the unintended consequences of this challenge. Given the competitive nature of some cachers, it should have been obvious.

We did 122 caches in one day along the Susquehanna River in Lancaster County Pa in one day the old fashioned way... Hiking, while hauling a dog along, with binoculars to spot the eagles nesting near the trail. Each of us signed it, put it back, and onto the next cache, dragging the dog, who was overly interested in the local wildlife. The caching was extremely boring, but the view of the constantly changing river plus all of the wildlife was wonderful, and made the trip worth it. Dog loved it too. Plus there were people rock climbing along part of the trail to watch. Hand entering logs later (no smart phone at the time) was awful. So, the caching was so so, but the location was/is very special.

I seem to have a slightly different perspective than many on this forum as a seeker of geocaches. Geocaching is a game. How you choose to log a visit online does not impact me in any way. The Frog has chosen to put some guardrails/rules around the sport. If you choose not to adhere to those rules, it doesn't affect me. As long as you don't steal or damage the container or log, or not put it back as the CO intended, I don't care what you do in the context of logging it online. We are out to get exercise, make the geohound happy (read: hike in the woods), be introduced to new areas, and have a wonderful experience. If you want to work around the rules, well, 1) that says something about you and your ethics, and 2) it doesn't impact me.

We have a good friend who sets up a hike associated with a multi that goes through a rugged and beautiful area along a great local river every spring daylight savings change. It's not about the cache, which just takes us to striking locations, but about getting together with friends and enjoying ourselves.

Over the years, we were very involved in extreme caching, and had an informal network of people in 3 states who would set up very rigorous caches, mostly with a nasty puzzle up front (solved prior to heading out) and always involving at least one T5 stage, primarily rope based. Mines, cliffs, trees, cave: some had several of these elements, requiring us to lug a 70 meter of rope and vertical gear several miles in the mining region of NE PA. Most of them had 5-14 stages, and took literally all day, and sometimes into the night. Good use of the helmet lamps we needed while rappelling. On those caches, we were physically and mentally challenged, met interesting animals such as porcupines, rattlesnakes and black bears, and bonded with our new friends, who became great friends. A great geocaching outcome. As a cache owner, I've placed several smaller hiking multistage caches, 1 to 1.5 hours in length, 1-2 miles in length, in PA State Game Lands and a local nature preserve. These lower D/T caches are intended to get folks to some pretty areas, and to get potential exposure to views, nature, and exercise. Sort of the anti-C&D approach. Harks back to the reason we got into the sport, which was to "Keep the Dog Happy," by hiking in the woods, while getting the kids exposure to nature and the adults exposure to special areas we wouldn't have found on our own so easily. Some of our favorite caches are multis.

In the big picture, if the find is within GCHQ rules, the "finder" can take the smiley. Depending on their participation in getting the log, whether they do take the smiley is an indication of their intent and the driver for engaging in geocaching. During the peak of my extreme caching time, we had a group that did many 5/5 caches together. The 5 difficulty caches that required solving a puzzle generally was done by each of us, with varying levels of hints flying around in the days before the trip as we all tried to figure out the puzzle. The funny part of the actual caching was that each of us had our own climbing equipment, kayak, snorkel/face mask, etc., and it would take FOREVER sometimes to do a stage in some of the multi stage monsters we did because each of us wanted to, [needed to], do the climb, dive to the bottom of the lake, etc. We were each AFTER THE EXPERIENCE, and to a less extent, after the bragging rights (and pictures of the adventure) for a difficult cache. We were AFTER THE EXPERIENCE. For some people, that is belaying so someone else can safely summit a trad rock climbing cache, but they are still getting the experience. It is up to each individual to determine whether they want to sign the log (or have it signed for them), even if the rules allow them the smiley. If you want to sign a log that someone else retrieved and didn't meaningfully help in the effort, I guess you aren't into the sport for the experience, you must be after something else. I may not agree with whatever that is, but it is your life. I like climbing trees... period.

That is a sad commentary on how people apply the guidelines. Surprised I haven't heard more about this in the forums. Very few real life databases are pristine, but perhaps the Geocaching database is diverse enough and large enough to offset anomalies such as the one you pointed out.

Perhaps this topic would be a good one for a math major bachelor degree final project. Is there a way to mine the Geocaching data base to determine whether the people who are caching now, in the midst of the Covid19 pandemic, have a risk seeking characteristic in their personality? A lay-person view of attempting to define a possible correlation: 1) Compare the average previous year Terrain rating of a cohort of cachers who have a significant number of finds in the past 3 weeks (after the pandemic became worldwide) with those who also cached in the previous year but have no caches in the past 3 weeks. 2) Figure out a process to correlate average Terrain ratings of a geocacher to degree of risk seeking behavior for that person. Again, I'm not a math or statistics expert, but it does seem intuitive that people who have a high Terrain average for their caching experience enjoy hanging off cliffs, (and kayaking rapids and generally climbing every tree in sight) are risk seeking in nature. I'd hesitate to call them adrenaline junkies, but they (we) probably are. So, does that translate into a behavior that drives them to geocache now, in the midst of the pandemic? After reviewing 7 pages of an adjacent topic on caching during the pandemic, it is obvious that there are strong feelings of folks on this topic. Be Safe.

Our stand-alone caches and hiking series, which all require from a mile and a half to five miles have seen an uptick in interest. At least some folks are after the solitude of a hike in the middle of no-where. More likely to see turkey, deer or porcupines than people at most of them.