Bon Echo

So I just tried to check out the "new Waymarking" website linked above. Denied! Reason given: pornography! Seriously? Obviously this is while at work. The system in use incorrectly blocks all sorts of stuff, and yet you wouldn't believe the crap that gets through. Anyway I'll try again when I get home. With that said, I liked the original Waymarking mobile site but it was pretty useless for me unless I was sitting in a McDonalds or something for me since I have no data plan. Another reason why I post visits for "those places" - because I actually could while at the location. Edit to add: even if it does not work for me, just a note of thanks to ChileHead for taking time to make the site/app/whatever. A few of the above comments seemed more like snide remarks than notes of thanks.

It's quite easy to edit - putting names to business, changing roads or paths if they are not exactly as shown. When you first create an account and sign in there's a brief tutorial. Most of us will figure out how it works in maybe 10 minutes. You can also use your handheld GPS to record tracks, and then upload those to use for drawing (or correcting) features such as road, creeks, trails etc. I just added all the trails from a local greenspace using that method. With than said, and this is important for category managers - OSM is an open source community project. All the maps have a level of "completeness and correctness" - maybe nearly 100% complete and correct, maybe much worse. So if you are reviewing a waymark submission and check the placement on the OSM map, and it doesn't look quite right - consider than the map might be the issue.

So my thread Contributing to wikipedia managed a whole of two replies (a big thanks though to BK-Hunters and fi67 for those replies). Looks like there not much interest from members here. How about the OpenStreetMaps project, anyone contribute to that one? Seems like a fitting question since that's the maps we get to use on this site. Actually, I use OSM maps on my Garmin GPS and phone and I'm pretty happy with them. Today I finally created an account and made a few minor edits. Pretty easy stuff, at least things like editing locations - i.e. putting names to buildings. You could spend every minute of every day doing that, just like adding waymarks - there's an endless number of locations still to be waymarked and we choose what we add based on our interests and what time we have available. So the question, does anyone here contribute to the OSM projects? I'm just curious. Waymarkers seem like a group that would also be interested in such a project. Maybe not mapping out new subdivisions, but adding interesting location points.

One thing to bear in mind - not all churches named "such-and-such Community Church" are non-denominational. i think many belong to some smaller denominations, while some are members of larger denominations, including those already represented by current categories. For example, I think most AGC (Associated Gospel Church) churches go by --- Gospel Church or --- Community Church. But there's really no convention, and I know of Baptist, Pentecostal and some other congregations meeting under the title of Community Church. It's not always a matter of population size, in larger cities it might be a way to stand out or to maybe even put some distance between the denomination and the fellowship. Around here they all seems to want a feel-good name - Forestview Church, Mountainside Church, Lakeside Church, Lightway Church, etc etc. Even the Baptist church I attend leaves "Baptist" out of the name. The only way to really know is to search their website or, if they don't have one, I guess you'll need to drop in for a Sunday service

I think all categories which require or relate to a plaque or sign must also (at minimum) include the full text of that plaque or sign (generally speaking). I've seen a number of waymarks where the long description was nothing more than a clear photo of the sign or plaque - no text at all. There's excellent free online software for optical character recognition [1], so getting the text is usually a simple thing to do. That way it is available for web searches and those with disabilities. [1] - I use http://www.onlineocr.net/ and output as a text file. Sometimes I need to make a few corrections and sometimes it largely fails; it really depends on the photo and how much noise there is around the characters. But overall it works well and saves me a lot of typing.

This is something I've long thought about doing and wondered if other waymarks do. We do a lot of research to create waymarks. How often in researching a location have you been surprised to see nothing on wikipeida? Just now I was looking up a "sea stack" or "flower pot" ("a geological landform consisting of a steep and often vertical column or columns of rock in the sea near a coast, formed by wave erosion" - from wikipeida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_%28geology%29). The stack that I visited has been waymarked http://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1VW_DEVILS_MONUMENT_LOOKOUT_Ontario_CANADA but it's not included in the wikipedia list of stacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sea_stacks#Canada. So do you contribute to wikipedia, yes or no? Why or why not? It seems we do rely a good deal on materials from that site. So why not also contribute. Just curious. Thanks for your responses.

I did just that, but once. I came across a website http://sumoflam.biz/ontario.htm and to me it seem abundantly clear that this person would like Waymarking - the way he provides not just random pictures but also context (both geographically and also context of the subjects). I sent him a message to tell him about Waymarking. He sent a nice reply, letting me know that he already knew about Waymarking and appreciated the website. But he was happy to keep doing his own thing. Getting back on topic... I've never waymarked a McDonald's. Probably never will. I have posted visited to several. Why? Because I was sitting in them, waiting for kids to finish eating, and there was free wifi. So why not? Because I was traveling across a dozen states and wanted some way to help track my trip, so why not. I once posted an Arby's restaurant. Why? Because I was staying at the hotel next store and had a few minutes while waiting for kids to fall asleep, so why not? A lot of Fast Food places that have been waymarked in my area were posted by a player who, due to the nature of his work, is often spending his lunch time at fast food places. So he waymarked a bunch of them. Why not? It appealed to him. Doesn't appeal to me, so I don't post them. I post what appeals to me. It's very easy to look in and see all those places already waymarked and say 'who wastes their time on that' and 'what's the point'? You don't necessarily know all the reasons and situations to be able to make those conclusions. really? Have you not visited geocaching.com lately? Talk about being used for advertising/merchandising purposes! Even if I pay to access the site, I still have to put up with ads for all sorts of Groundspeak merchandise and countless things to remind me of the benefits of being a paying member. On Waymarking (surprisingly) I don't see any ads or any advertising/merchandising purpose - just locations neatly cataloged and categorized according to a set of criteria.

Now I see where you're coming from. And I get it. I enjoy Waymaking but that reason is for me one of the biggest turn offs. You put all this work into creating waymark listings and they are for the most part ignored. Here's my advice. You want an audience. So write Wikipedia articles. They be read by thousands, many tens of thousands. You want feedback. Write reviews for trip advisor. You'll get both readers and feedback. I have a handful of waymarks that I've also put in reviews for on trip advisor. Those reviews have thousands of readers and dozens of "Thumbs Up" - they are read and appreciated and I know it (an email from 3 days ago tells me I have over 26,000 readers and 25 "Helpful votes"). And the corresponding waymarks ... have maybe one or two page views, never mind ever being logged! But my guess is you won't bother with either, because what I really think you want is exactly what you are getting via this thread. I might be wrong (I hope I am).

Actually it's mostly a copy and paste thing. Took a few minutes. Those numbers are always available whenever you do a location-based search. Run the search and then click the plus to expand the Categories section. Easy. But thanks.

Almost all are vacuous McDonalds marks. Not quite. There's 1268 waymarks within 10 kms (6 miles) of the above mentioned city. Here's how that breaks down in terms of the number of waymarks in each category; it is true that waymarks within the Business categoies account for a third of all waymarks in that area. But that also means there are more than 850 waymarks in that are not business. Look at the list. Surely something in that list appeals to you? Business Food and Drink (291), Stores/Retail (87), Natural/Organic Food Stores (10), Lodging (7), Publicly Held Corporation Headquarters (6), Wineries (3), Newspaper Headquarters (2), Auto Clubs (2), Flea Markets (1), Indoor Malls (1), A.M./F.M. Radio Broadcasting Stations (1), Farmers' Markets (1) Buildings Government and Services (58), Religious Buildings (15), Transportation (Buildings) (10), Architectural (10), Meeting Houses (5), Dated Buildings and Cornerstones (4), Converted Firehouses (2), Converted Bank Buildings (2), Blacksmith Shops (1), Geodesic Domes (1), Victorian Houses (1), Relocated Structures (1), Doorways of the World (1), Charity (1), Carnegie Library Buildings (1), View more Buildings subcategories... Culture Sculptures (Art) (47), Artistically Decorated Utility Boxes (23), Statues (Art) (7), Murals (6), Mosaics (6), Topiaries (4), Relief Art Sculptures (2), Artistic Seating (2), Etched in Stone (2), Painted Hydrants (2), Frieze Art (1), Outdoor Stations of the Cross (1), Musical Instruments (1), Kokopelli Sightings (1), Outside Wooden Display Carvings (1) History Historical Markers (59), U.S. National Register of Historic Places (14), Time Capsules (6), Exact Replicas (5), First of its Kind (4), Municipal Flags (4), Highways and Byways (4), NRHP Historic Districts - Contributing Buildings (3), Guest Books (2), Tragic Sites (1), War (History) (1), New World Ancient Evidence (1), American Guide Series (1) Structures Fountains (52), Free Community Book Exchanges (14), Freestanding Arches (6), Dated Architectural Structures Multifarious (4), Gazebos (4), Outdoor Amphitheaters (4), Bell Towers (3), Bridges (3), Windmills (2), Non-Coastal Boardwalks (1), Engineering Landmarks (1), Water Towers (1), Nuclear Power Plants (1) Recreation Public Playgrounds (35), Outdoor Basketball Courts (11), Roadside Attractions (6), Skateparks (6), Tennis Facilities (6), Bicycle Tenders (6), Lawn Bowling (4), Amateur Baseball Fields (4), Water (Sports) (3), Hiking and Trails (2), Martial Arts (2), Golf (1), Inline Hockey Rinks (1), Billiards and Pool Halls (1), Winter (Sports) (1), View more Recreation subcategories... Monuments Dedicated Benches (16), Dedicated Trees (12), Donated Engraved Bricks and Pavers (11), Citizen Memorials (9), War (8), Final Resting Places (6), Statues (People) (3), Sister City Monuments (3), Rotary International Markers (2), Police Memorials (2), 9/11 Memorial Sites (2), Animal Memorials (1), Lions Clubs International Markers (1), Firefighter Memorials (1), Peace Poles (1), View more Monuments subcategories... Technology Internet (24), Fabrication (17), Machines (12), Vehicles (8), Communication (5), Solar Power (1) Signs Elevation Signs (15), Population Signs (13), Neon Signs (10), 'You Are Here' Maps (9), Time and Temperature Signs (4), Flora and Fauna Information Signs (3), Artistic Welcome Signs (2), Unusual Speed Limits (1), Small Town, Big Name (1), Bridge Date Stones and Plaques (1), Artistic Neon Lights (1), Welcome Signs (1) Nature Parks/Reserves (40), Plants (5), Trees (Nature) (1), Demonstration Gardens (1), Scenic Overlooks (1) Waymarking Multifarious Limited Availability (17), News Article Locations (7), Real World Reproduction (4), Coordinate Games (1) Entertainment Museums (7), Live Performance (3), Movie Projection (2), Bookcrossing Zones (2), There's a Book About It (2), Movie Locations (1), Pop Culture (1), Horse Racing Tracks (1), Literary Sites (1), Official Local Tourism Attractions (1), Dance Clubs (1), Rides and Moving Attractions (1), Model Railroads (1), Photo Cutouts (1) Animals Off-Leash Dog Areas (9), Animal Hospitals (6) Oddities Satellite Imagery Oddities (3), Readable From Above (2), Man-made Devilish Locations (1), Urban Legends and Superstitions (1), Guinness World Records (1), Highway Giants - Muffler Men (1), Ghosts and Hauntings (1), Superlatives (1), Human Error (1), Letters on Hills (1), Themed Homemade Mailboxes (1) Measurement Standards U.S. Benchmarks (1)

If you want to find a direct replacement for virtual caches, you will need to look beyond Groundspeak. There are at least two active listing websites that still allow virtual caches to be listed. Both allow for logging passwords, so no need to email the CO before logging to verify you visited the area - visit the site, find the logging password and post your log. And IMO the level of "quality" or "interesting-ness" of locations being used for virtual caches on those sites is no different that those used for the original set of virtual caches. I don't shop at just one hardware store - one store is bigger and offers more selection, but sometimes I can get something at a smaller store that is more suited to my preferences or tastes. In geocaching I use the same philosophy. But I completely agree with the sentiment that Waymarking is not the same as virtual caches, just as the letterbox hybrid is nowhere close to being the same as a true letterbox. Find what you enjoy and do it. I enjoy all of the above and so that's what I do.

Wow, Waymarking must be more fun in your area. In my area, over 99% of the waymarks have never been visited, so it's hard to even imagine a waymarker that visits more than he creates. I have found/visited 4.3x as many waymarks as I have created/posted. Posted 161, visited 693. Not all waymarkers are in it for the number of waymarks created. I only create and visit waymarks that I find interesting, and skip over many (also what I consider interesting may change with time and location). I'm just as happy to log a visit, in fact sometimes I prefer that because I don't always have the time to create a new waymark. Not so hard to imagine at all....

So as I read through this thread I was thinking - this would be a lame category. but a perfect locationless cache! Naw, not going to say it. Then I saw what MountainWoods wrote, and couldn't resist. Someone did start a different site for GPSr games (there's a bunch actually), and at least a few allow locationless caches. Waymarks work best for fixed items (natural or manmade) in permanent locations (IMO). What the OP describes sounds to me like a fun locationless cache.

My only concern is that if and when someone does spot one and then looks for a category (we've all been there, pretend you don't know anything about this category and you find a location, think it is neat and next look for the correct category in which to waymark it). But you only see one category, "Historic Transformer Sub-Stations Buildings" and so, disappointed, you shelve the photos and move on. I'm guessing there;s probably 20 - 40 waymarkers now familiar with this category (based on peer review). The rest likely know nothing more than the title. Category titles are huge when you are sorting through a thousand titles. What about "Historic or Unique Transformer Sub-Stations Buildings" as a title? That should convey that any historic building is accept and any modern building as well as long as it's not just another plain box. BTW, I can't wait to return to my birthplace to get the photos of the large and historic transformer sub-station where my grandfather once worked. The substation powered the electric railway, which is long gone. The building has not been waymarked, as best I could tell it didn't fit any category until now.

I also own the Colorado 400t and that is all I use for geocaching (just can’t stand using the phone even though it can hold many more caches - just my preference). Is there any chance that your “missing caches” on the Colorado were found by your son-in-law? If he marked them as found, they will not (by default) be displayed on the Colorado. First, make sure you are using the Geocaching mode (please refer to the manual for this or go to Set Up - Mode - Geocaching). When viewing the list of caches, use the button on the upper left corner and select “show found caches” or something to that effect (sorry, I don’t have the unit with me at the moment, going from memory). Look at what comes up. Do you see any of the “missing” caches? One solution might be to do a complete reset of the unit. That should (I would image) remove all the “saved data”. Then again, I bought my unit used and I think the previous owner did a reset, yet I was able to see a number of tracks and caches listed in some of the files. BTW, to load caches into the Colorado, I download the GPX files to my computer, connect the Garmin via USB cable, and extract them to F:/Garmin/GPX (on your system the F might be a different letter). When I want replace a GPX file, I first delete the old one from F:/Garmin/GPX That’s how I use it, others likely have easier solutions. BTW there used to be a useful wiki for the Colorado but sadly it is no longer available (or at least I can no longer find it online). Don't know if any of what I wrote it helpful to you, hopefully yes.

If it is listed on Geocaching.com as a Wherigo-type cache, it will have a physical container - always (I know someone will happily correct me if I am wrong). However, a Whergio cartridge can be hosted on Wherigo.com without the requirement for a cache - for example, play-anywhere types. Another situation is where the Wherigo cartridge is still available to download and play (on Wherigo.com) but the geocache listing has been archived. A Wherigo cartridge takes you on an adventure...a Wherigo cache uses a Wherigo cartridge to take you on an adventure and at the end of the adventure you find a physical cache.

Easily the two best caches I ever did were Wherigo's, one took me 8 months and many visits to complete. It incorporated UV stages, night-cache fire tacks, random zones / characters that would appear. It was just awesome. Yes, many visits over 8 months to finally complete it and get one smiley. It was worth it (most others completed it the same long day or over two visits but I had shorter time slots available). http://coord.info/GC3MC70 (my 500th cache find) http://coord.info/GC4RVTG (my 800 cache find) Maybe half of the Wherigo's I've done are just a multi (visit sign/etc, enter answer, go to next sign/etc, enter answer, yawn...)and could be done as a multi. But the Wherigo gives you many other options - zones, timers, multiple choice...not easily replaced. Please let them be, even without Groundspeak inventing in development and support of the platform, it continues to be developed by third parties and is now more accessible than ever. And many of the "problems" encountered with playing Wherigo's on Garmin's or on particular apps are avoidable but that takes a bit more work when writing the cartridge.

I am an officer in that category and I called the vote. It was not based on my mood. You can read the category requirements http://www.Waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=c20834f3-2fde-4be2-9358-7e4f0a678426&exp=True They were not met and the group members agreed. Sorry that you feel we are "great ambassadors *NOT* of the game". Maybe we should find another way to volunteer our time then.

catering? Seems to me that they're not even listening....

I'm interested, and Canadian if that matters. I just found this thread now. Thanks BK-Hunters for the effort with this. BTW, I just returned from your "neck of the woods" and will be posting some waymarks and visits for the East Kootenay region when I get a chance.

Thanks fi67. has it always been that way? I see no reason why it should not be able to work with a location based search. I can apply filters when using a location based search at geocaching.com, why not here as well? I appreciate your workaround suggestions. For me, that sounds like more work that it's worth. I guess I'll stick to my traditional way of Waymarking - keep your eyes open when your out and about and see what you find. gather some photos and details and later look to see if it's already waymark - if yes, visited it, if no, add it. Obviously I miss a lot that way, I'm okay with that. There's only so many hours in a day anyways and my wife thinks I give this hobby too much time as it is.

First, full disclosure. I have done this. I once logged two caches as found, although I never found them. But those were the first two caches I ever logged, and I had no clue what I was even supposed to find. And then on the third hunt we found a container, and have never logged a find without meeting the logging requirements (signing the logbook or the logging requirements for non-physical caches). Except the first time we looked for a multi, we found the first stage and called it a find, again for lack of experience and in this case I later completed the multi, deleted the original found-it log, and logged it proper. Came across this one yesterday and couldn't resist adding it to the list. This was on a cache that was abruptly archived in 2010, and the archival of this cache was even questioned in the forums. This was apparently a very cool cache and I wish that it was still going; I would love to go for it. Or maybe I still can, and get the smiley; all I need to do is try. 29 Sep 10 Archived Same day: 5 notes and 1 Post Reviewer Note, regarding the archival 27 May 12 Found It (a user who joined a month after the cache was archived, and currently has over 5000 finds) Here are some excerpts from the long Found It log, Maybe it was just a mistake of selecting "Found It" instead of "Didn't Find It". Then again, the cache had been archived for nearly 2 years at that point, and the cache was already archived before this user account was even created. Maybe the CO had asked them to retrieve the container, since they wanted to check out the area. But wait, there's more. Another cache, similar in nature (these were T5 caches, quite difficult to get to), in the same region. Different CO 23 Jun 12 Temporarily Disable Listing

When I search for waymarks in the Canadian Benchmarks category, and select to exclude waymarks I've visited and exclude my waymarks, the results contain BOTH waymarks that I've created AND waymarks that I've visited, plus ones that I haven't visited and didn't create. In other words, those filters no longer filter. Using Chrome on Windows 7; also tried it in Chrome on an Android phone, with the same results. Is anyone else having this problem? I know, it really is not that big of a deal. I was hoping to create a GPX-lite file of all nearby benchmarks to load into my GPSr, obviously I don't want ones I've been to before.

Hmm, wonder if we visited the same city? I spent a couple of weeks working out of town last fall. I brought my bike and was able to get out caching in the evening a few times. This also happened to be the city I grew up in. One evening I went for a nice long ride, only to discover that the majority of caches I went looking for had been missing for months, all with multiple DNFs but only a few with NM logs. These were all easy caches, very few DNF logs and then suddenly nothing but DNFs. Multiple cache owners but it seems that they are all friends. Anyway, there was a serious lack of cache maintenance happening. So I spent the rest of the evening in my hotel room posting NM and NA logs. My NA/NM logs triggered three actions/responses. First was the nasty email from one of the cache owners asking what my problem is with this city and stating that I probably just want the locations for my own cache, and "explaining" that this wasn't even caching season (did I mention that I used a bike to travel to these caches? Geocaching season?). Then there was the action by a local reviewer to disable all of the caches that I flagged with a NA (some I just used a NM since to me that was more appropriate, and others I just posted a DNF). But most importantly, there was a response by some of the CO's, and at least a few long-neglected caches were repaired and put back into play. That's the goal! But following on what L0ne.R has posted, I was also quite frustrated because I used the hour or two that I had going after a bunch of neglected caches, when I could have used that time heading in a different direction and (hopefully) finding well-maintained caches.

Here is possibly another option, and maybe some others can comment on the feasibility of this. You said you have a mobile unit without GPS capabilities, and want to look at getting a dirt-cheap GPS receiver. My experience (though limited) is that "handheld GPS" and "dirt cheap" are mutually exclusive...and if you do manage to find a handheld GPS for, lets say, less than $30, you will quickly come to hate it (probably very limited functionality, particular with respect to paperless geocaching). Hopefully I am wrong and you can find something. anyway here is my suggestion: watch for a sale on a decent "locked" smartphone, and use that without ever activating it. I bought thea HTC Desire 510 for something like $35 via a Black Friday sale (I had planned to have the phone unlocked, since I cannot and will not use the carrier to which it is locked). Turns out the phone cannot be unlocked (unlock codes not released). So I didn't get a $35 smartphone, but instead I got a $35 portable device with built-in GPS. I loaded a geocaching app, loaded a GPX file, gave it a try and it works. I can't say how it compares to using a "live app" or using a phone with both GPS and assisted GPS since i have no experience. I can say that I still prefer my Garmin handheld, mostly because I can drop the garmin on a rock, use it in the rain, drop it in the snow (yes I've done all that) and the phone just feels, well, fragile. But if I was just starting out and wanted something cheap to start with, this is how I would have gone.