DrDavidLopan

I briefly read over why the map change is a good thing.... but I do not understand. I must be missing something. Why even have the map tool if it is completely broken? I have an extremely fast broadband connection, fast computer, and I've tried running the maps on the latest version of firefox, chrome, and internet explorer. It just doesn't work....at all. I see the first few geocaches around an area, but as soon as you zoom in, move the map, change view, etc. everything is gone and nothing is usable. I'm totally new to geocaching (29 finds), but I just bought a premium membership a few days back. I'm not trying to sound like a total complainer, and I will gladly support geocaching.com for the next 3 months (as per my subscription plan), but I can say with 100% honesty: If I knew that the map tool was going to become unusable, I never would have become a premium member. That is the tool I would use to plan my geocaching days. The alternative method, which I am dealing with now, is time consuming and difficult (annoying as well because I have experienced such a better system). I really dig the community and the activity, but if the map tool remains as it is, I will not renew my premium subscription.

"others may/may not have done to "get around" the policies...." - Who are you quoting here? "it is always best to follow those policies..." - I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Then again, I will always allow common sense to trump blind obedience to bureaucratic rule. That being said, as this is a community, not a solo venture.... I will completely abide by the rules of the community and follow all local mandates. It is a bit sad, because I will not get to place a cache in my childhood spot (I just don't have the time for the ridiculous process), but I understand that this is a community, and I will not be a person to break the established code. Did you stop to consider that there are reasons for the "ridiculous process" that you "just don't have time for"? At least they allow caches in the preserve, there are plenty of places that don't allow caches at all. It's really not a difficult process and could be done in pieces. Make a quality cache, get it put out, and maintain it so people can find a nice cache. Or don't, but don't complain about a park who supports our hobby. Yes, not only did I read all the reasons for this ridiculous process, but I stopped and considered them. I just completely disagree. We are not talking about private property here (where an owner should have complete control over such things). This is public land, and my tax dollars pay for the upkeep, maintenence, etc. of this land. Not only that, but I have personally volunteered at this preserve, both formally and informally to help maintain the natural beauty. I feel as much of an ownership over this preserve as anyone. "Don't complain about a park..." - I apologize, but I feel it is not only my right to complain, but it is also my civic duty. This may be the improper forum for complaining about such things, but I am going to respond to posts that ask questions of me. Again... I am not trying to be antagonistic, and because the community makes it clear that all local rules are to be followed, I will not break that code in any way. My initial post just wanted to be completely clear about that. Many aspects of life are goverened by "official" rules and regulations that are routinely broken or ignored by society. I just wanted to know if this was one of those cases. As it is not, I will not break any rules. My further posts were just my own personal viewpoints made in response to comments directed at me. I really shouldn't be responding to posts on days like this My apologies for the pointed tone. That being said, I stick with the gist of my post. I'm glad you read up on the reasons for the hoops you have to jump through to place a cache in said preserve. As somebody who has done as much to visit and clean up the area, I'm surprised to hear such a displeased tone from you regarding their attempt to keep the place in the best shape possible. I'm going to assume that's their main purpose soley because that's the only good reason I see for the red tape. Given the frequency of poor quality/maintained caches, an agency who takes that much care to make sure their land stays in the best condition possible while still allowing a hobby such as geocaching is to be commended; at least partially. The Wherigo idea is a good one, although your cache won't be visited with any regularity. I second the idea of talking to the park officials (rangers?) to see if any exceptions can be made. Remember that quality caches take effort on many different fronts. I think part of the reason this particular regulation upset me so much (apart from the fact that I have a general distrust of rampant bureaucracy), is that we (friends and family) fought the park district when they wanted to remove a forest area of this preserve (not in the State preserved wetland area, but right outside on county land) in order to make a paved bike path. Of course the County won out (we were but a few, and no one had the time/resources to put up much of a fight), and my childhood woodland path became a paved bike path. I just have a general distrust of certain rules promulgated by government agencies existing outside the main 3 spheres of government. I have seen, all too often, government agencies create jobs, titles, duties, rules, etc. just to keep themselves working and growing, and NOT in the best interest of the citizens, nature, or the environment. I definitely do not think that these particular rules will result in better maintained caches. It seems to me that part of what makes this community so neat, is that when people visit the caches, they are able to help ensure that the cache is as it should be (by informing the owner of the condition, or by fixing what they can, etc.). I do not see how a County sticker will make the situation any better. But, all that aside, I did read up on Wherigo caches, and that sounds like a super idea. I could place a physical cache in an easier (to deal with) place, but still require a trip around my ol' stomping grounds. Very cool!

"others may/may not have done to "get around" the policies...." - Who are you quoting here? "it is always best to follow those policies..." - I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Then again, I will always allow common sense to trump blind obedience to bureaucratic rule. That being said, as this is a community, not a solo venture.... I will completely abide by the rules of the community and follow all local mandates. It is a bit sad, because I will not get to place a cache in my childhood spot (I just don't have the time for the ridiculous process), but I understand that this is a community, and I will not be a person to break the established code. Did you stop to consider that there are reasons for the "ridiculous process" that you "just don't have time for"? At least they allow caches in the preserve, there are plenty of places that don't allow caches at all. It's really not a difficult process and could be done in pieces. Make a quality cache, get it put out, and maintain it so people can find a nice cache. Or don't, but don't complain about a park who supports our hobby. Yes, not only did I read all the reasons for this ridiculous process, but I stopped and considered them. I just completely disagree. We are not talking about private property here (where an owner should have complete control over such things). This is public land, and my tax dollars pay for the upkeep, maintenence, etc. of this land. Not only that, but I have personally volunteered at this preserve, both formally and informally to help maintain the natural beauty. I feel as much of an ownership over this preserve as anyone. "Don't complain about a park..." - I apologize, but I feel it is not only my right to complain, but it is also my civic duty. This may be the improper forum for complaining about such things, but I am going to respond to posts that ask questions of me. Again... I am not trying to be antagonistic, and because the community makes it clear that all local rules are to be followed, I will not break that code in any way. My initial post just wanted to be completely clear about that. Many aspects of life are goverened by "official" rules and regulations that are routinely broken or ignored by society. I just wanted to know if this was one of those cases. As it is not, I will not break any rules. My further posts were just my own personal viewpoints made in response to comments directed at me.

"others may/may not have done to "get around" the policies...." - Who are you quoting here? "it is always best to follow those policies..." - I don't think I could disagree with this statement more. Then again, I will always allow common sense to trump blind obedience to bureaucratic rule. That being said, as this is a community, not a solo venture.... I will completely abide by the rules of the community and follow all local mandates. It is a bit sad, because I will not get to place a cache in my childhood spot (I just don't have the time for the ridiculous process), but I understand that this is a community, and I will not be a person to break the established code.

Hello all, I am brand new to geocaching. My cousin introduced me to the activity earlier this week and I have yet to go out and find my first cache, although this Saturday I plan on doing so. The idea of hiding a cache is extremely intriguing to me as well and I look forward to taking part in this aspect of geocaching in the near future (after I have logged some finds). I have a good idea for a fun, interactive cache, and can't wait to implement it. My question concerns the strictness of local rules. A bit of background.... I grew up next to a forest preserve. My whole childhood was spent here, and I know every square inch of the, decently sized, preserve extremely well, even though it has been a couple years since I spent time there. I, personally and with friends, have probably cleaned up more litter (from the parking areas at least, most people don't venture much farther than that) in the preserve than any group, individual, etc. I have always respected the beauty of the place, because I enjoyed being there so much. This is absolutely where I would want to hide my cache. Then I read up on the local county rules..... Kane County, IL. To put it bluntly. The local rules are bureaucratic nonsense. Permit process, inspection of physical cache (clear, and fitting a specific size), pre-discussion with park service, meeting with ranger to place the container FOR YOU, requirement that you personally check the cache often, and re-apply for a permit yearly. This is ridiculous. I understand that there are arguments to be made for why these regulations are important, but I can tell you right now.... I do not buy those arguments. So.... I just wanted to know if all the listed caches follow the local rules, 100%? If it is customary to follow only the rules that make sense (sort of like some traffic laws), and caches are listed that don't adhere to the strict guidelines, then I will not bother with this ridiculous process. One of my close friends is a park ranger who has yet to hide a cache with someone, but he said there are unregistered caches all around, and he just ignores them. Any more information on this would be great. I don't want to do anything that the geocaching community frowns on, but I would never follow that process (mostly because I don't have time, and partially on principle). *The sad part of it - Has anyone seen the Republican debates, where the candidates jump over one another to proclaim how badly they want to abolish the EPA? I'm not going to take one partisan side or the other, but I have studied environmental admin law, and it is this bureaucratic waste that causes this outrage. I understand the county forest preserve system is not the EPA, but the sentiment relates. As a citizen, the state's protected land is as much mine as anyones, and if I am not hurting the ecosystem, then leave me alone.