Ish-n-Isha

quote:Originally posted by Hemlock:Well, what I have done for 4 caches I have gone after that didn't meet the guidelines (2 were behind No Trespassing signs and 2 were blatently on railroad property) was to abort the search in 2 cases, and find and pull the caches in the other 2 cases. For the ones I found I logged the find, then followed with a ''should be archived'' log where I stated the reason why. This is exactly what I would expect anyone to do. But judging from the number of finds that all of these caches had, I am sorry to say that few will report it. This is a disappointment. Hemlock I for one applaud your follow through on the instances you have mentioned. I admire approvers willing to be up front about these issues and log a "this cache should be archived" in their own caching names. I however was unaware all cachers were encouraged to actually remove a offending cache themselves. This would seem a can of worms. Again, Thank you. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Hemlock:Once you have searched for and/or found the cache, and have determined there is a problem with it (buried, on private property, commercial, etc.) then yes, you should report it. When approving a cache, these are things that we cannot tell simply from looking at a map or an aerial photo. We rely on cachers like yourself to help to enforce the guidelines. Hemlock Volunteer Cache Reviewer This is how it is and how it should be for the generic cacher. Lets say for discussion, its you who finds a "non Kosher" cache. Whats your play? Simply pass it up the chain of command? Make a log saying, Great hide. Thanks for the fun and then email the higher ups and get them to archive it? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:Hey, if you're going to title a subject as "a touchy subject", there better be something about boobs. I'm not a fan of the old bait-and-switch. We need a boob topic. http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ Sometimes you really get in a good one when I am least expecting it! That one was a hoot! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Renegade Knight:Approvers use guidelines to do their job. They should be percieved as consistant in doing that job. Giving them approval rules that remove as many subjective standards as possible will go will go a long way towards giving them a better reputation for being fair and consistant. In other words stack the deck so its easier for them to do their job well. Well said. The code of Honor with approvers or admins is, I think, Very high. To accept a job that often is a lose-lose proposition takes a special person, NO DOUBT. But, that said, when you accept a job as "The cache Police" it has to follow through to all aspects, even when they are out caching themselves. In 660 caches I have seen I think 3-4 caches too close to RR Tracks, Many caches less than .1 away, (the last one was last Sunday..182' between 2 caches approved 65 days ago) and when those who are in these approval positions find them, there is not a word in the logs about violating this or that particular rule, just the usual pleasantries and the cache continues to exist for over a year. In a way its like parenting. If you are enforcing a rule and your kids push you on it and you don’t follow through, you start losing their respect. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:I hesitate to put the word 'useful' here, but any item that is not 'useful' should not be in the cache. It can be argued that McToys and beads are not 'useful', so maybe change it to 'desired'. Kids desire to have McToys, beads, and other things; they don't desire pamphlets of information. If the item is worthless, feel free to trash it out. Your 100% wrong. IF you wish to trade, trade for 1 thing. Anything. Dont like something? Take something else. Nothing good to trade for? TNLN Those are your options as stated in the rules. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

Quincy Washington 5 miles-2 20 miles-32 50 miles-246 100 miles-692 Included within the 50 mile circle is 34 we planted. I have heard of stats based on difficulty and time since a find, anyone heard of one based to include density? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

If a geocacher trips in the woods and no one is around to see it, Did it really hurt??? Hummmm? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Kealia:I'm of course not familiar with your area and approvers, but: They do need the coords of ALL legs of multis now to verify they meet the .1/mile rule, How new is now? August this year? I was at 2 caches today that were 180.32' apart. One Named Nez Perce http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4b71f74b-f732-4c14-8c91-c1f67846666e (traditional)Planted 8/4/03 and the other Altapas Creek Trail http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=6281fa38-d637-45ad-9dda-c79b22d1156d (Multi)Planted 7/23/03. Both in Washington. Does anyone know if 65 days is "Grandfathered"? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors: As far as other listing sites popping up. Well, they will be successful or unsuccessful depending on what they offer and what the public wants. I disagree in part. The real thing that keeps compatition from starting is US! We are mostly too lazy to bother cross posting all our caches and thereby all our finds since you cant log a find for a non listed cache. The first startup to figure out how to transfer a states caches through 4-5 GPX queries to provide the base, then we download our finds into them the same way will clean up. Compatition is good. Maby even more so with websites. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

First they came for locationless, but I wasn’t a locationless cacher, so I said nothing. Then they came for the virtuals, but I didn’t do many of them, so I said nothing, then they came for the webcams and the event caches and the cito caches. I didn’t do them either so I said nothing. Then they came for the “discriminatory” caches. You know the ones with puzzles to solve that discriminate against cachers that were mathematically or otherwise challenged. I never was very smart so I didn’t do that kind either. I let that one pass too. Lastly they came for the cute little gerbil caches they oh so recently told us we could have. I never kidnapped rodents and put them in a box, hoping someone would come and feed them, so I said nothing. Department of Homeland Security didn’t like ammo cans so those were outlawed. The resulting demand for Tupperware was so great the price rose 1000% so only the rich can afford to plant a cache. But hey, the last 3 caches that exist are at least 100% eco friendly, 100% politically correct and 100% safe. Admin workload is down and there is nothing left to debate on the forums. Groundspeak is now a stressfree and happy place for all! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone: That's not even funny, ju66l3r. The approval process is there for the benefit of geocachers. Side-stepping the system will get you in trouble. Translation: See fellas? I'm ready to be an admin. Call me! Please?!?! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

Now factor this in. Say a new resturant opens up next door with the 'Classic' old menu, Service, variety freedom ect. The one that made the first place famous to start with. Given the choice, what percentage of the customers would be glad to escape the 'monopoly' and change their reservations? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Stunod:What if the chef is really good. And when the word got out about how good the food was at his restaurant suddenly there was a huge line to get in and it was hard to get a reservation (even if you slipped the maitre'd a couple of bucks every month). In order to serve everyone, the chef decided to trim down the menu a bit and make the kitchen work faster. Now some of the original customers are seeing a new menu...maybe their favorite food has been removed from it. So they go looking elsewhere for their favorite food. Will they find it elsewhere? Maybe. Will they be satisfied if their entree is again added to the menu? Definitely. I'm still eating the chef's food, because my favorite food is still on the menu. However, I've sampled the food elsewhere, too, just to see what it is like. I can understand why others might want to try out the bistro down the street if the chef doesn't cook their favorite meal anymore. http://208.55.63.109/images/stunod_sig.gif _"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson_ __Eamus Catuli AC145895__ I like your take the best. It seems to be the most accurate, at least of the people I know. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by mtn-man:I don't see a final container as a let down but rather as a place to write my impressions of how good the cache was so the cache owner can see it later when he checks the cache. I like to read the logbooks in my caches. Ah yes the pleasure of seeing those little stickers from those cache machine events. The joy of reading, (10-9-03 Cacher X) in a micro. Just like going to the library. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by as77: And geocaching.com is supposed to serve the geocaching community. The fate of geocaching.com (and in the end the salary of its admins) depends on how well they serve the geocaching community. If they ignore the wishes of the community then they won't have a bright future. But they are listening to the community. Havent you heard? Evidently now the demand for rodents held hostage in a container is so overwhelming that GC has given the masses what they want. You can now trade your household rodents and reptiles for someone elses! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Shotgun & Pea Shooter: We have pleaded our case with TMJ, stating that placing a physical at any one of the 10 stages is impossible, only to be told that we have to make an offset to an 11th stage that contains a physical of some sort. This would totally destroy the whole idea of this cache and make it just another "find the box" cache. Put a bison capsule somewhere, with no log book. Make the veificaqtion be the info you require, plus the color of the capsule. That should play with their minds! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

]Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone: It's clear you didn't understand the football analogy. Perhaps it was because it was such a bad one. In your analogy the "fans" decide which one they like. Well fans are people who would rather talk about it than do it so maby your right after all. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:I want to join a football team, but I want to use a basketball instead of a football. It can then be left to the fans to judge whether or not the game is pleasing or not. The league currently allows me to play if I use a football. They don't if I use a basketball. Perhaps that is why you will never understand this issue. YOU ARE NOT ON A TEAM! If you choose to use the "football" to represent a cache thats fine. Problem is with no team, one person plays with his football by kicking it into the stands at the 50 yard line. He is happy doing this as it causes no one any harm. Others go to the highest levels in the stadium and throw theirs to see who can throw farthest. No problem. They hurt no one. A myriad of others find interesting ways to use their football. EACH HURTS NO ONE ELSE. The real problem is the guys who complain that the others seem to be having too much fun and insist that every one instead hide their football in the outhouses like they do. Everyone else is fine letting all who want, hide their footballs in outhouses. But it is not enough for them. They seemingly cant be happy as long as they know others enjoy diffrent things than they do. Isnt the fact that we can all play this game as you please enough for you? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by seneca: The main, fundamental difference in the current treatment of physical caches and virtual caches, is the subjective aesthetic judgment being used at the approval stage. Amen and well said Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

What measures are in place to minimise the number of "poorly planned traditional caches?" quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:The 0.1 mile rule, no caches within 150 of railroads, no knives, no guns, no alcohol, etc We are speaking of only the additional restrictions placed on virtuals, the DIFFERENCES. Since the 0.1 mile rule, and no caches within 150 of railroads, are for all types, and placement of knives, guns, and alcohol are impossible, your example of these as a restriction on "poorly planned traditionals" is illogical since the classic reasons given to restrict virts are not because too many people placed the m in the middle of the tracks, but because of low INTEREST items which by deffinition are subjective. quote:Since the game is about CACHES, not waypoints,.... No. Thats how YOU play the game. Dont think you can tell anyone how they can play this game. Fact is GC.com is a buisness and the fact it would cater to where it percieves the largest market share is, is no suprise. Somehow if people were only interested in locationless, for example, I dont picture Jeremy sticking to the "moral" highground all the way to bankruptcy while sobbing, "Its called GC.com because its about caches.. not waypoints." Therefor if your goal is to remove "poorly planned caches", you should apply your restrictions to all caches. quote:That's why there is a 'this cache should be archived' option on every cache page. So you log, 'this cache should be archived' simply because in your estimation they are boring? Can't you see the heart of the discussion is about the subjective interest of a virtual that varies with each person, verses nuts and bolts issues with traditionals like, The 0.1 mile rule, no caches within 150 of railroads, no knives, no guns, no alcohol, etc. Apples and oranges mostly. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by sranddboggny.us: you see, you never know what circumstances exist. these circumstances, all be it unkown to you, still allow someone to play the game. Further, it should allow them to play the game without issue. SR and dboggny. I agree completely. I only was commenting on the Ironic aspects I've witnessed here. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone: The rules (or guidelines if you prefer) are in place to help reduce the number of poorly planned virtuals. What measures are in place to minimise the number of "poorly planned traditional caches?" None??? Then by default there are MORE restrictions on virtuals. Therefor if your goal is to remove "poorly planned caches", you should apply your restrictions to all caches. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

Hmmm, Who to believe? We have people of every persuasion, from the mouse cheese guy with 60 posts for every cache he has found, to admins who seemingly hate virtuals and yet 35% of their finds are webcams, locationless, cito, Virts or events. None of which measure up to the precious GC.com mantra of, "The site is called geocaching because your supposed to find caches". Quite a disfunctional family we have here. Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

quote:Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:I'm all in favor of separating virtuals from regular caches. The site already exists! It's called http://www.waypoint.org and is set up to mark waypoints for interesting places, no containers, logbooks, or stats involved. Virtuals should be eliminated from Geocaching.com altogether. If you dispise them so much why do you have 19 of them logged with the last one just a week ago??? Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!

Baby Talk is a fun one. There are a lot of unique ones on the green belt by the highway. Most of the ones where you are going are the view type. Most are very good! Cachin's a bit sweeter when you've got an Isha!