flyfshrgrl

Oh my word! As I had stated, I was new to geocaching. After receiving contradictory feedback from: a Reviewer, Geocaching.com's Cache Listing Requirements and Guidelines,and caches I discovered, I was confused and could not figure out the answer to my question. This post, after finding little in the forum's search about Park 'n Grabs, was written to gain the answer. The question asked for an "explanation of the guidelines" and not "what is your opinion of the guidelines." I did not solicit nor want your opinion. I wanted the explanation. Paying little attention to the fact that at the start of this post, I had 9 forum posts, 123 finds, as obvious other signs that I am new to the game, and choosing not to read the subtitle I included, Understanding a Discrepancy, is your error. It is not your justification to: speculate about what the Reviewer and I discussed privately; say I erred in posting incorrectly; assume I meant something else (I still don't know what hiking has to do with a Park 'n Grab), call me an elitist, assume that I was stupid and had not researched prior to asking for help, nor is it your justification to not answer the question. It reminds me of a 20+ year old sociology assignment our teacher assigned where we were to people-watch, observe only, so we could attempt to prove or dispel a long-standing belief. I chose to dispel the belief that the youth and elderly do not want to interact or understand one another. I visited a park daily. A youth, not a teen, carrying a chess board approached an older man at one of the chess tables and asked if the old man would teach him to play chess. Old man agreed, youth sat down and eagerly began to play and learn. They both enjoyed one another's company. 10 consecutive days of playing, youth asks how to castle. Others within earshot and eventually further, answered why they thought a player should Castle, when they thought one should Castle, and whether they liked Castling or not. What they did not answer was how to Castle. The youth left with an unanswered question and more confusion. Continued observations showed the youth did not come as often nor play as much and with the same enthusiasm. Granted, I don't know all the events surrounding everything, but the negligence and further confusion contributed to stifling the youth. One of my professor's maxims was that human nature does not change. I can not believe I forgot that lesson. How silly of me. Soliciting an opinion also means soliciting a criticism, whether you wanted it or not, so be careful and chose when to answer and when to opine. The political arena is where your talents may lay, though. Many did provide an answer, and I thank you. With this said, when I set out this weekend to Geocache, I pondered the things said here, and at the time I set out Legochugglerss' 19 May 2012 10:05 a.m. post was all there was. What a surprise this morning. First, with Danny Caffeine's 'done properly' post and the caches I had found, I realized, a mistake I had made. All 'parking lot, lamp lightskirts' are Park 'n Grabs, but not all Park 'n Grabs are 'parking lot, lamplight skirts' caches, even though those are the only kind of Park 'n Grabs I have found. I began to think that if I wanted, I could place a Park 'n Grab at the High Water Bridge on U.S. Hwy 90. I think I found two Park 'n Grabs this weekend, El Castille and Goin' to the Chapel. At these three caches, hunters could see a gorgeous example of Victorian architecture, a beautiful, little church that's been moved multiple times with an historical marker, and the highest bridge in Texas and historical markers. I understand and realize my error now. Second, Mr. Benchmark offered help, but when he said this is not a competition, I must respectfully disagree for many reasons. If a Park 'n Grab can be placed at some place other than a parking lot's lamp light skirt, but people choose not to, it is because someone will have to work just a little bit to create, hide, and find the cache to add to their number count, which will hinder the "I found 10,000 caches in one hour" brag (hyperbolic, but true). I have attended a few geocaching functions, not many at all, and I have done lots of listening and observing, and never once did I hear someone talking about how they thought a lamp light skirt, parking lot hide was clever, that they were proud of finding a parking lot cache. In fact, now that I think about, I did not have an understanding of Park 'n Grabs even after attending a couple of events and listening to people talk about their finds. I know some of them had to be Park 'n Grabs, but I also know they did not discuss any parking lot hides or finds. Which further points out that when a game is played and scores/runs are kept, that score or run has value because it is measured against the opponent and not just total accumulation of points/runs. Otherwise, why have Division I, II, III leagues in college and similar divisions in high schools based upon student enrollment? The NFL team doesn't scrimmage the local high school football team, even though it would be an NFL win column addition every time, because the win would be meaningless. People who want to have a high find count but realize running from parking lot to parking lot only adds to the number not a meaningful find, a brag check, if you will. I daresay if I asked someone with a high count, "Well, how did your hone your skills and get so good at caching? there would be some reservations, because other than getting to brag about how many caches they have found, they didn't do anything to hone their skills or improve their abilities. Some opinions seemed to say that handicapped people were being deprived, and yes, with a total elimination of Park 'n Grabs, I would agree, that would be a deprivation. Having been sentenced to a wheelchair for 18 months in high school and again in college, and having also used a walker and a cane, I know how much time and effort it takes to get out of the car, get physically situated, and you think going to a parking lot, where drivers are concerned about themselves and finding the best parking space available come hell-or-high water, is a safe place for someone who has mobility challenges? A tampering with someone else's private property (with enough lifting of the light skirts the paint will get chipped and knocked off causing the owner to spend money to have it repainted or let it rust) in the middle of a parking lot at a grocery store, strip mall, shopping center, chain hotel has merit, especially when weighed with the chore of exiting the automobile? It is the bodies that are challenged, not the minds. It is obvious The Incredibles and I play the game differently. I choose to use as little information as possible. Afterall, if you have the coordinates, you know where the cache is hidden. I choose not to click on the View Larger Map, to read the hints, to see other logs until after I have found and logged the cache. I am even trying to find caches using a compass from the 1800s, but I am not doing very well with that; funny, but poor performance. I want to understand how people who lived before and navigated so well without this technology, to understand what it meant to be a scout in any military, Meriwether Lewis's uncanny, dead-reckoning skills, and a sailor even after the Longitude problem was solved. I do, however, read the Attributes, and when P&G is not chosen by the owner, I do not know that it is a Park 'n Grab. I also use the titles. I thought Woofwoof was going to be something about dogs; the description info lended it that way. Instead, I ended up in a parking lot where I could see Home Depot, AT&T, Maurice's, JCPenney, et. al. and watched an owner struggle to keep his large dog from being hit by a car before going in to the chain pet store; I would have been really upset about that. I thought Autobot Ratchet sees the light was going to be something about a solar powered device, or an electronic gadget or a robot, not a lamp light at a chain hotel with a good view of people leavingtheir apartment complex's back exit or the highway traffic. I did not sign that log. IkeHurley13's post horrified me. Geocaching.com obviously had a great reason to eliminate caches placed within proximity of a school. Parents who choose to not homeschool their children, are entrusting the care of their child to someone else, whether it's public or private school. A cache owner who can't resist wanting to place a cache at a school is a selfish individual. A Reviewer who says yes is a fool. Stop thinking like a normal Geocaching player and think outside the box, oh say, like a child predator. Anyone registered with Geocaching.com can get the coordinates for free, and I will bet a year's salary, that Geocaching.com does not check its registered users against a sexual offender registry database state by state. Say that predator hunts like I do, without viewing the larger map (so they can tell their parole officer they didn't know they were hunting within a school's proximity, e.g.). Give that predator the benefit of the doubt (don'tspew your drink, because you'll mess up your screen and keyboard), and the predator leaves the school and decides to come back when the students aren'tsupposed to be in school. Predator returns after school hours when just a few students are present. What happens next? Say the predator does not leave the hunting ground when the students are present. The cache is no longer the hunt; now the students are. Let's hope it's not someone you know. The problem is, by the Prime Reviewer and Geocaching.com allowing the cache to be placed and published, they have exposed children to become victims and targets whether a predator ever acts on it or not. I know two extremely excellent lawyers. They love the law and their very expensive hobbies, which reinforces them to be exceptional lawyers. By choosing not to follow Geocaching.com's stated requirements and allow anyone to do what they want, others are put at an unnecessary risk outside the parents' control and permission, and it is through Geocaching.com's negligence. I can see each one of these attorneys winning lucrative settlements costing Geocaching.com, Groundspeak, the Reviewer, and Cache Owner their financial stability, all because they refusedto stand by a requirement. I revisited the Help Center and Cache Listing Requirements and Guidelines, as Palmetto seems to suggest that my mental acumen is deficient and I had not thought to do so prior to asking for help, or that maybe a re-reading might help give me the answer on another read through. I began to research hides and finds < 2005. Originally, it seems, the parking lot, lamp skirt cache was not around or intended as a way to play, even after the death of the Virtual hide, but Geocaching.com has allowed it to evolve into what it is today, a cache simply for placing a cache, regardless of what they state in their guidelines or requirements. It can not be about the money, because being legitimately and successfully sued to the point of filing Bankruptcy and financial ruin would cause a different reaction. It goes back to being able to say you have "x" number of caches, regardless--a meaningless find, other than a number bump for both the hider and finder. Palmetto, I disagree, there is nothing difficult about obtaining an empty pill bottle, creating a log, deciding which lamp light skirt to raise that was not within 1/10 mile of another lamppost, obtaining the correct coordinates with the GPSr, and completing the online form, a little time consuming but only a little; difficult, no. Now, asking and receiving permission for placing a cache on private property might increase the difficulty level, maybe. Geocaching.com should clear up their requirements and guidelines to eliminate the confusion. A Reviewer would not have to be a judge on placement. Require Attributes, not letthem stand as a suggestion. On the online form ask, "Where will the cache be placed?" and if the answer is under a light skirt or in a parking lot light pole, publish request denied. However, if what IkeHurley13 says is true andGeocaching.com refuses to uphold not placing caches at/near a school; sadly, they will not take a stand for any requirement, guideline, or policy, whether it's their policy or someone else's. edited because many words were run together without spacing.

My opinion, boring or exciting, of the cache is also a moot point. What are the guidelines? All I seem to be getting is personal opinions as to what people like and why and an odd defense of the cache, instead of an explanation of the guidelines and what Geocaching.com wants and intends. I do find it interesting that the quote Geocaching.com chose to use is under their Placement guidelines, which turn out to be as clear as a churned up, 30-year old cesspool. Table of Contents I. PLACEMENT Guidelines: Placement guidelines govern the physical location of a geocache. "When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot." – briansnat

It seems that my question has been misunderstood, and I promise you, if I were complaining, I would let you know up front. My caches have been published, so that is a moot point. I am trying to understand contradicting rules Geocaching.com has laid out. Unless I am wrong, a reviewer is an extension and representative of Geocaching.com and judges the cache before it's made public. Yes, briansnat made the quote, but it was Geocaching.com who chose to publish the quote on their webpage as a guideline for people to follow, so obviously, Geocaching.com believes the quote and has an expectation for people to follow it. I am lost regarding the hiking comment. I don't know what caused it nor why it came up, so I can not comment on it, other than, hiking was not my original statement nor my intent. I never thought about it being a boring cache, but agree with DannyCaffeine; they are boring, but boring was not my reason for the post, either. It is not about what someone likes or doesn't like. People obviously liked Virtual Caches, because Virtuals were created, and while they are not published now, they are still hunted and reported and recorded. This post is about figuring out what the rules are, which again brings me back to the origin of the post. A Geocaching.com Reviewer stated the purpose of the geocache is to get people outside and to interesting places. Geocaching.com chooses to use someone else's quote on their website giving instructions as to how to get started to place a cache, so they support the quote even though they did not say it. I fail to see how a Walgreen's or Petco parking lot light post are interesting places. I am hard pressed to believe that it is getting people outside. It is getting people into their cars and spending money on petroleum. I do understand DannyCaffeine's statement, but am trying to compare the removed pay phone from a booth at a convenience store or the wooden fence post near the dumpster at a gas station as interesting or done properly. These caches are judged prior to publishing, but on what criteria are they judged? Why bother with making statements about what to do, if it does not matter what people do? If the goal is to accumulate as many happy faces as possible, then, why not just say that? Why promote confusion, especially to people who are new and working at trying to learn the game and figure out how it operates?

I am still new to geocaching, but I am having a very difficult time understanding the purpose of a "Park 'n Grab, " and why Geocaching allows them. In an attempt to take cachers to an interesting/worthy place, I struggled with some placement issues and some criticizing comments from a reviewer. The reviewer stated that the purpose of geocaching is to get people outside and to interesting places, and yet, this same reviewer allows someone to place a cache under a light skirt at Walgreen's, Pet Smart, a hotel, a fence post at a gas station, to name just a specific few. I just learned about the ignore button and will use it to ignore park 'n grabs, but since Attributes are merely a suggestion and not a requirement, and many hiders do not list a cache as PNG, I've ended up at them and don't know how the ignore feature will prevent me from arriving at one. I signed the log since I was there, but I thought I was going somewhere instead of an disused pay phone booth at the corner of a convenience store, the light skirt outside the pet store at the strip mall, the light skirt at a hotel. In deciding where to hide some caches, I followed Geocaching.com's Getting Started guidelines, particularly this quote, "When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot." – briansnat . So, if Geocaching.com is going to use this quote in their Getting Started guidelines, why do they also allow PNGs? I am a very competitive person; I used to coach; I started on an NCAA, Division 1 softball team all four years in college; I set and try to break existing fishing records; I understand the competitiveness, but I do not understand having one set of rules so someone can be competitive, and another set of rules by which others must play. Would someone please explain why Geocaching.com allows park 'n grabs but wants people to not place hides for the purpose of just placing a geocache? Would someone please explain to me what it is exactly that Geocaching.com wants? Thank you, flyfshrgrl

I will be in the SeaTac area the weekend of the 31st for a memorial, and I would like to visit Groundspeak HQ? How do I go about doing that? Thanks for any assistance. Flyfshrgrl

I worked on listing a new cache up until five minutes of when Groundspeak said they would be disabling the site for maintenance, 3:30 p.m. PST, and the maps were still working, then. However, this evening, 10 p.m. CST, the maps are not working once the View Larger Map link has been selected.

When I click on Advanced search options I receive the complete set of whatever topic I have requested; Sunday, it was Letterbox Hybrids within my zip code; Monday, it was Multi-Caches within my zip code. After previewing the first page in the listing, which is fine, when I click on either Next, the right arrow, or a specific page number, I am taken to all the caches within the parameter, zip code, e.g. The only time it worked, is the last page of Letterbox Hybrids, shows only LBHs, instead of everything.

Thank you both so much. I appreciate your help!

I have several questions regarding a hide. I posted a hide on 2/17/2012. How long does it take for a reviewer to respond to a hide? If a Reviewer doesn't preview the cache, what are a hider's options? Is there just one Reviewer per state or region?

Thank you, everyone, for your kind and informative replies. I appreciate the help!

I have a tb in my cache, but I do not know what to do to get the icon to appear in the Info column on the listing. How do I create a tb icon? Thank you for your help and time, flyfshrgrl