TrimblesTrek
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Posts posted by TrimblesTrek
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I was at the first meeting, and I would like to see more of this, across the nation. Pool resources and learn in real time.
I was at the first meeting too. And I came away from that meeting full of confidence that Parks Canada was going to do the "right thing". Instead, they banned geocaching.
1) Parks Canada can NOT comment publically about its ongoing discussions nor its intended path. They can only comment through the official release of a policy. If you wish to have discussions personally with them, the facility is provided and referenced wihin this thread.
Malarky! They've already commented publicly in the media. And the first email I sent was met with a response that could have been written by a public relations expert...all fluff, no substance.
It's all fine and dandy to say that you are collecting information from emails being received, but collectively as a community, we haven't heard a word directly from Parks Canada, other than a few comments from Claire that have been published out of context.
How do we as a community know what Parks Canada is doing on this issue? How can we as a community be sure they are doing anything at all. Surely after these long months since the initial ban they have some idea of where they are headed. Let us know!
All I'm asking is that a Parks Canada representative participate in these forums. I can't and won't accept that they "don't have the time". They've got the time to have their names and quotes splashed about in the media, so they've got the time to participate here as well. Poor excuses aren't acceptable.
I want them here, and I want them to answer some hard questions. Questions that they should have answers to after presumably doing their due dilligence and investigating geocaching in depth over the past six months. (Yes, it has been more than six months since they banned geocaching.)
I want them here, and I want them to provide a synopsis of their investigation to date. I want it posted here, in public, and not just sent to a few select individuals.
I want them here, to give the geocaching community a sense that somebody at Parks Canada actually cares about this issue.
I'm tired of hearing nothing. My "press release" of yesterday was a tongue-in-cheek response to the situation, born of frustration...like most of my posts
No offence was intended.
TT
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I am going to have become a Premium Member soon just so that I can avoid the searches that a mere Member has to do to try and get some answers to general questions. I have been looking at puzzle caches having recently placed my first and I think that this cache, Gutter's Cache may be the oldest puzzle cache in Canada.
It is the only puzzle cache in Lethbridge but Poor Doggie is very close and was created just four months later in 2002. There haven't been any puzzle caches placed in Lethbridge since. Medicine Hat has never had a Puzzle cache before and I am thinking I might place a second one that is easier than my first. It is difficult to gauge the level of challenge with no feedback other than "impossible to find" which is what non-geocachers tell me when they see my cache.
It is interesting to note that the only mystery involved in Gutters Cache is why there is no log book. Every last bit of paper in the cache is signed, the cache container itself is completely signed inside and it continues. I am going to put a new sharpie in there on my next visit rather than a logbook.
Maybe I will take some pictures of the cache itself as well. So can some kindly Premium Member tell if Gutter's Cache is the Oldest Puzzle Cache in Canada ?
I'm confused. More than usual.
Your own cache sure appear to have all the normal features of a puzzle cache.
- Cache is not at the listed coordinates
- Have to do a bunch of jiggery-pokery to figure out where it is
But how do the others you listed fit the bill. They just look like normal caches to me.
Same thing with the one BQ mentioned. How is this a puzzle? Where's the brain-bending challenge? I think there's a big difference between a mystery cache and a puzzle cache. I wish they had different icons.
- Cache is not at the listed coordinates
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Yup, you're right. Both are listed as Mystery caches. Mystery??? Hardly! And most definitely not Puzzles! Why they're listed this way I'll probably never know. The first is for finding a golfball in a park. The second is a simple book exchange. The real mystery here is how these ended up being listed as Mystery caches!
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...I was real suprised that we are to blame
The whole point of this topic is that we AREN'T to blame!!!
Point 1: Its a VIRTUAL. No container, therefore nothing to hunt for.
Point 2: WE DON'T DIG
...most of us I don't think are into doing alot of diggingI would hope that you aren't "into" ANY digging! It's geocaching. Digging is forbidden! Leave your shovel at home!
-TT-
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No visible progress to date other than a few quotes to the media.
Not a single word directly from Parks Canada in this forum.
I don't believe they are doing a darned thing.
At the conclusion of the Parks Canada "evaluation" period, here's what I expect to see:
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Press Release
OTTAWA, Sometime in early 2006:
Parks Canada announced today the conclusion of the evaluation period on the subject of geocaching in Parks Canada managed lands. Their findings concluded that geocaching is an activity detrimental to the intregrity of park land, and therefore, the interim policy that has been in place since early 2005 will be extended indefinitely. Also, geocachers may scare a birdy from time to time. That would be bad.
Parks Canada felt reluctant to participate in the online forum discussions at www.geocaching.com (the largest single resource for geocaching in the world) for fear of being ridiculed for commenting on an activity that they did not fully comprehend. Instead of participating actively in the ongoing discussions, and perhaps learning about the activity, Parks Canada determined that burying their collective heads in the sand was more appropriate, and much closer to their normal operation structure.
Parks Canada key representative Ima Bureaucrat noted "we feel justified in our decision because, well..., just because."
Other Parks Canada representatives added more comments:
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"Well, I never understood the whole huntin' for Tupperware thing ya know. And, well, if ya don't understand somethin', ya best be afraid of it. Besides, I prefer Rubbermaid anyways."
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"My Momma took me fer a hike once. I didn't find no dang treasure. I just got dirty shoes. Geocaching is bad."
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"I went geocaching once..it was Fun! We stuck to the trail system, and we didn't hurt a single thing. Why, we even stopped a group of kids from riding their bikes off-trail! I felt SO good." (This representative was unavailble for further comment due to a transfer to a new job posting on Hans Island)
Parks Canada feels it has upheld its mandate and thanks the geocaching community for all their nice emails. Said Ima Bureaucrat: "We just got tons and tons of email! It was so exciting. I even read of couple of them! I just wish I could have got onto that darned website thingy. I get so confused about all that W-W-W stuff. I don't think the internet is very good, because I don't really understand it. I think we should ban the internet. I'm gonna write a new policy! YAY! I love this job!"
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My opinion. Your mileage may vary.
-TT-
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"Well, I never understood the whole huntin' for Tupperware thing ya know. And, well, if ya don't understand somethin', ya best be afraid of it. Besides, I prefer Rubbermaid anyways."
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I have been to Point Pelee for my 10th Anniversary.
Never been to Point Pelee. I've heard lots about it, and have just never made the effort to get there.
Presumably, Parks Canada WANT to get visitors to the Parks. To see the sights. To learn the history. So what would it be that could get someone like me out to a site like Point Pelee? Oh yeah... hidden Tupperware. A chance to explore the park, and at the same time, satisfy my own hobby needs.
Sadly, this isn't going to happen with the current Parks Canada policy. Are you listening Parks Canada? Your current policy is a detriment to me (and others like me) visiting your park.
-TT-
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I've emailed OGA Admin with the contact info for the mayor of Oro-Medonte
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Very hastily written! And don't you think it just kind of petered out at the end??
Poor writing, and questionable "facts" too...
- "new high-tech game" - hardly "new"
- "sometimes real treasures like money " - I guess.. if you count Loonies as a "real treasure" (and if you igonore the Team KFWB GPS caches)
- "from about $100 US" - um... isn't CBC supposed to be CANADIAN???
-TT-
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Sad indeed. I only met her the one time, but she was definitely the type of person that leaves an impression!
Thinking of her brings back a load of memories from that event... 'specially the German Spy Hole!
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I got a reply back from Parks Canada.
Among other things the reply stated "In actual fact it was a very positive interview, however they chose to only post the concerns instead of all the things that I said which were positive."
It may be true that I shot my mouth off inappropriately... (happens all the time, one of the hazards of being an idiot I suppose), but the fact remains that the CBC chose to air only what they did.
I agree with Olar, and I and a couple of others have already sent "feedback" to the CBC site requesting an audience with the author. If anything, we could use the CBC to put out the positive spin on geocaching.
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...especially in a forum that might be read by the people we are trying to win over.Actually, in another stunning display of indifference, Claire has made it very clear that she is not interested in the content of this forum topic. She is ONLY taking her input from the email sent to rec.activities@pc.gc.ca. The one place where the geocaching community comes together to discuss the issue, and she's not interested.
The only way to have any hope of understanding what geocaching is all about is through participation. Participation can take many forms including taking part in these forum discussions, or God forbid, actually hitting the trails!
- The existing Parks Canada policy was created without input from anyone within the geocaching community. This is a problem.
- The policy implemented was to ban all geocaching activity within Parks Canada properties. This was nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction. Knee-jerk reactions most often cause problems.
- Ignoring expert advice and opinion provided during a face-to-face meeting is a problem.
- Not participating in open discussions is a problem.
- Hiding behind Parks Canada's doors in Ottawa is a problem.
- Not doing anything to promote park useage is a problem.
- Providing CBC with misguided information is a problem.
The saying goes, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
The corollary is "If you're part of the problem, you're not contributing to the solution."
Come on Claire. Take up the challenge and respond here, in this forum. The recent sniping and bad-blood is simply born of frustration with Parks Canada. If you folks would actually talk to us ALL, HERE, this would stop.
-TT-
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Just my 2 cents here but, I don't think taking a swipe at the Media and accusing Parks Canada of ignoring the facts is any way to advance the cause.
I don't really see any "taking a swipe" at the media here. Care to explain? Although you don't have all that much geocaching experience, I'd be interested in your reason for a comment like that?
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From the linked article:
"There might be an increase on off-trail travel in those locations which could displace animals and wildlife or perhaps lead to trampling and erosion, " Parks Canada spokeswoman Claire McNeil told CBC News.Once again, Parks Canada has demonstrated ignorance of the geocaching community and the activity in general. Nice work. Perpetuating this inaccurate information on Canada's national broadcasting network is a very serious error in judgement.
-TT-
cc to rec.activities@pc.gc.ca
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I need a Geocacher in the Quesnel Area, BC to adopt my cache that will not be approved by Geocaching.com in Bowron Lake Provincial Park Canoe circuit.
Please contact me if you are able to do this.
I'm afraid the link to your site won't work...'cause the cache isn't approved!
Just wondering... why would anyone adopt your cache if it's unapprovable???
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Work in progress? Let's hope so! Without highway numbers it's not much use to me.
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I agree with BQ.
A simple note to the cache owner usually does the trick. If it doesn't, a quick note to the cache approver should suffice. Both these methods would be seen as "self-policing".
Notifying everyone in the forum about a misplaced cache is a little gauche.
Can we get back to the Parks Canada issue?
I'm quite sure that Parks Canada staff are monitoring this forum topic.
There have been almost 70 posts in this forum topic. Who knows how many emails they've received at rec.activities@pc.gc.ca. I know there has been an ongoing email dialogue with some of the OGA members. Surely at this point in time they should have some kind of public comment on the topic.
It costs nothing to join geocaching.com and post in the forums. Come on Parks Canada. The BAN is your policy...let's hear your side of the story. For starters, maybe you can explain to the geocaching community how you came to decide on an outright BAN without consulting anyone in the geocaching community!
...waiting patiently....
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Bc Geocoin
in Canada
I would order 5. Save one, cache the others.
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" 1. ELIGIBILITY: The Jeep 4X4 Geocaching Challenge (“Contest” or “Promotion”) is offered and open only in the 48 contiguous United States or District of Columbia to natural persons age 18 and older who are legal U.S. residents and have a valid driver’s license as of the date of entry."
Don't feel too bad Murfster... looks like Alaska and Hawaii get the shaft too. It's all about being contiguous I guess. I was contiguous once but a little rest fixed me right up.
What would you want with a white Jeep up there anyway. You'd never find it in all the snow!
-TT-
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We've rented a giant money-sucking-Winnebago-type-thing and will be caching our way from Guelph to Maine and back.
Ultimate destination is the L.L.Bean outlet (at least that's what Mrs.TT believes...secretly, I'm really headed for the heart of America...the Ben & Jerry's factory... shhhh... don't telll Linda!)
After that it's GHAGAFAP IV planning.
Sorry Murfster... yet another summer is going to pass without getting to your neck of the woods...
Maybe next year??? 
Oh yeah... it's also my plan to redo my forum logo...
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Add my vote to the Yea side too.
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less3nergy = lessenergy ?????
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Triangulation is not flawless.
Triangulation is mathematics. Your analysis is flawed.
When using a GPS there are many many factors that can affect a true reading.
Atmosphere, batteries, Solar Flares, excess ions and the list goes on. If one is getting a reaing on only 2 or 3 sattelites the reading and lat/long is further degrades.
So when placing a cache within feet of a PARK boundary there could be an error factor that puts the cache just inside or just out side of the Park.
Ah... so you are talking about a GPS RECEIVER then. GPS is the Global Positioning System...the constellation of satellites placed by the US military. If you wanted to refer to the accuracy of a GPS receiver you should have stated this. Please try to use the correct terminology here.
Maybe I will take some pictures of the cache itself as well. 
Maybe next year??? 
10 Meters Off The Path
in Canada
Posted
If the rules were put in place by the landowner, I'd move my cache closer to the trail. If no suitable spot could be found, I'd archive it. Rules are put in place to be followed.
I would still try to find the cache. BUT, I'd inform the cache owner that their cache was hidden in a manner that was in contravention of the landowners rules, and that as a responsible cacher they should relocate it asap.
If a rule is put in place by a landowner, I'd expect everyone to respect the rule! If you find a cache that breaks the rules, contact the cache owner and inform them...they may not be aware of the rule! If they fail to do anything about the situation, contact the approvers. From a landowner perspective, it's the cache approvers who are the geocaching "police" and it's up to them to rectify the situation.
Of course, this only applies to caches listed on geocaching.com. There are other sites that have cache listings, and some of them may not be interested in respecting the landowners wishes.
The silly thing here is this: Parks Canada ban caching because they think we're going off-trail and destroying the local flora and fauna. Their ban WILL stop caches being listed on geocaching.com (simply because the approvers must abide by the Parks Canada rules). BUT, Parks Canada CANNOT prevent caches from being placed in their parks, and listed on other sites that don't care about the rules.
So Parks Canada are NOT allowing (normally rule abiding) geocaching.com cachers access to their parks, but they ARE allowing cachers from other sites complete access, by virtue of the other sites not enforcing the rules.
Sorry...I think I went a bit off-topic..
-TT-