TahoeJoe

The whole point of PMO is to exclude people. The unwashed masses so to speak. I know if I put out an expensive cache I would not want it available on the "Intro" app. As there are too many young children and teenagers that run amuck and will destroy it. That's the nature of children. They're just not very careful with things that are not theirs. Some grownups as well...lol. Too bad more parents don't teach their children to be responsible and polite, I know with my own children I have used geocaching to teach them about the environment and trading toys they have brought from home are traded for equal or better items. The majority of my caches are placed in remote locations which discourages theft while my easy caches are virtuals. While I understand why some caches are PMO, I like my caches to be available to everyone.

Great to see you researching what makes a great geocache. I'm sure it will be well received.

i have one micro on the Tahoe Flume Trail, a single track mountain bike trail on the side of a mountain high above Lake Tahoe. It's hidden in a crack on the granite wall next to the trail. My one and only micro.

Student ID cards aren't just for identification, they're used for buying lunches, checking out books at the school library, school bus passes etc. Its a digital world now.

Probably someone caching dropped it and the next cacher to come along dropped it in the cache. I work for a school district and what shocks me is that they would place a student's birthday on a school ID. Not only for student safety but identify theft. Younger kids lose their ID's all the time.I second dropping it off at the school.

Hello from Lake Tahoe, United States.

I went back and looked at my 2002 finds. Back then there weren't too many geocaches hidden and you were excited when a new one would be listed. Out of the 34 traditional caches I found that year, here's the breakdown: 23 Ammo Cans 5 Tupperware Containers 2 Tin Containers 4 Other I remember when and where I found most of those caches because most of them were overall well done. 2002 was a good year for geocaching (like some wine).

My last cache I placed was about a half mile off and I didn't realize it until my cache went active. I had switched over to my smartphone to geocache and was trying out a new app that ended up being way off. I didn’t have time to hike back 3 hours to the cache anytime soon so I remembered I had taken a photo from the cache location. I used the geotag from the photo to make the correction and had the FTF verify the location was correct. I don’t think experience has anything to do with it. I work in tech and was being lazy when it came time to list the cache.

Looking back at the logs of some my caches that involve a substantial hike which were placed in 2003, visits peaked around 2007. Some went 2 years before another visit. My one cache off the main highway on the way to Tahoe was interesting to look at the data because most of the visits to this cache is from visitors to Tahoe and not local cachers. Only 5 visits after 2006. You would think the visits would reflect exponential growth as geocaching became more popular. My last cache placed about a year ago has only one logged visit (requires around a 2 1/2 hike) while nearby power trail caches continue to rack up visits. There are some great caches in the area, but they are the exception and very rarely do you see new creative caches in interesting locations listed. Micros scattered randomly densely together degrade the quality of caches and encourage placement of more of the same for the sake of increasing the number of caches found. I’ve always thought of Geocaching as taking me to an interesting place, cracking open the container, and relaxing for awhile while reading the full size log book. If the kids are with me, they enjoy trading a toy they brought with them for some other trinket which they think is pretty cool. You are not going to have the same experience with a micro in a bush off a road or trail.

So you miss the ammo cans and the creative hides, and dislike micros. Well an ammo can is no more creative than a bison tube. Everything else being equal, there is absolutely no difference other than size. It the container, how you bought it, just dropped where it fits. Maybe that place is the top of a mountain, maybe it's near a historic building, but the hide itself is the same. You say bigger is better, others say smaller is better. I just payed $20 for an ammo can, and I'm not sure it's going to be ammo cache. I can get 6 or 7 bison tube for the price of one ammo can that will more than likely go missing. What can I do with the can? Put it down. Maybe put it in a hollow log. What can I do with a micro? Put it inside a hockey puck near the arena. Put it in a toy dinosaur near a place they found a fossil. Put it in a bat, hang it from a tree for a night cache. Are you saying those aren't as creative as an ammo can at the base of a tree? Yes, I think caches should be more creative or in cool locations, but size doesn't equal a cool cache, or a cool location. Bison tubes are great! (my post said ammo cans or similar) I'm just done with the abundance of micros. Why use a micro in the middle of a forest when you can use something bigger and more creative. One of my favorite forest cache containers was a fake branch on the ground. Most micros (not all) are just a quick inexpensive way to place a cache. I'm assuming this is not unique in my area.

What ever happened to hiding ammo cans or similar size caches at interesting locations? I was looking at some of my posts from the early 2000’s and was reminded how much geocaching has changed. It was interesting to look at the posts when micro’s first started showing up and what others thought of them. Micro caches back then were usually placed where traditional caches wouldn’t work, not like the ones I see today. Micro’s have become the runaway virtual caches of yesteryear placed along trails and roadsides under every bush and sign. As the years have passed it becomes more difficult to find the type of caches that use to give me enjoyment in the game. Last year I hid a traditional size cache in a location with breathtaking views with interesting local history and have only had one visit to date. Years ago, I think the demographics of the game was pretty much limited to a narrow group of individuals with similar interests. With the introduction of the smartphone, the game took off into a new direction with a wide variety of individuals. It appears that the majority of today’s players choose quick find caches near other caches verses quality caches that are in more remote locations. As long as caches are continued to be placed for numbers, you will never see the creative caches in great locations which I took for granted. I have an ammo can in my garage just waiting for the snow to melt to be hidden in a great off the beaten track location I have in mind. I hope someone looks for it.

I enjoyed virtuals back in the time when traditional caches were for the most part ammo cans or something similar. Virtuals were a nice complement to the game where a traditional cache would not always work. Perhaps I was lucky where I lived or maybe it was because geocaching was still relatively new but I never though of virtuals being placed just because the CO wanted to inflate their hide count with little effort or thought. When virtuals were banned, they were still the exception to the traditional caches in my area. Once real traditional size geocaches started becoming the exception and poor quality micro caches started poping up every 500 feet along a trail I no longer accepted the train of thought that virtuals were degrading the game and that virtuals were not real geocaches. That’s pretty hard to swallow with the size and quality of most caches I see now days. That’s a consequence of when numbers become more important than the creativity and though that used to go into the placement of the cache. I for one would like to see virtuals come back as the very least they would discourage power trail caches and might encourage the placement of caches in some interesting locations. As a side note, my most visited cache with lots of favorite points happens to be a virtual.

In my opinion, a geocache is more than a logbook. I like to find geocaches that take me somewhere interesting or show me something new. Some geocaches I close not to log as I believe not much thought went into the placement of the cache. If I found a cache missing a logbook but otherwise had a enjoyable experience finding it, I would log the find with a NM. Ultimately it’s up to you to do what feels right to you.

I enjoyed location-less caches but remembered they started getting out of hand and some really didn't feel much like geocaching. Virtual caches on the other hand always felt like geocaching to me minus a container and log book. I really enjoyed virtual caches that I had found as they took me to interesting locations and some involved a wonderful hike in breathtaking areas. Most if not all I found had a wow factor. Very few caches in my area today have much of a wow factor as most seem to be randomly placed in bushes every few hundred feet to boost your find count. These seem less like geocaches to me than the virtuals I use to find.

If most physical geocaches were well thought out and hidden in interesting places in quality containers, I might listen to the argument that virtual caches might degrade the game. That ship has long sailed with the over saturation of poorly unimagitive placed micros placed on every street corner or thrown into bushes every 500 feet to boost find counts. I'll take a virtual cache in an interesting location any day over most of the caches I see today. I enjoyed virtual caches and would love to see them come back. If you need more guidelines to allow them that's fine. Personally I don't buy the argument that virtuals are not geocaching when you allow power trails.

If I read this I start thinking maybe Geocaching is really dying. In my opinion, Geocaching is leading to interesting locations, worth a visit, a location I would like to share with others, something nice to visit. MB I agree 100%, it doesn't sound much like an outdoor treasure hunt reaching down from your bike to grab a cache every 530 feet. The game has evolved (or devolved depending on who you ask) into a different game than the original with less focus on the adventure and more focus on quantity.

It has never been a requirement to furnish writing utensil. Most did but not a written rule and unwritten are not requirements True it was never written anywhere in the guidelines but it was common practice. I still set up and maintain my caches to a high standard. Just like cache containers and log books having no written guidelines about size and quality has led to the over placement of small poor quality caches that deterorate very quickly in the elements and end up in many cases becoming trash once they are archived due to lack of maintenance. Just today with my two sons we found a well stocked ammo can (their first) with a pencil (from geocaching.com) and a large logbook. They spent 10 minutes deciding on what to trade for while I sat back and wrote a log entry and enjoyed reading the previous log entries. They left excited and couldn't wait for the next cache. To me, this is what geocaching is all about. While a pill box and a tiny piece of paper to log might meet the written requirements for a geocache, it certalny does not add to an overall positive experience as someone who has taken the effort and time to create a overall great cache. It's like comparing a local carnival to Disneyland. I want people to have the best possible experience when choosing one of my geocaches.

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Sorry to hear about your loss. Your dad must have been a wonderful father and human being. What a great way you have chosen to remember him, very moving and inspirational.

Don't let your feelings get hurt if someone has a legimite complaint about your cache condition. You mentioned that you don't have the resources to make sure all containers are watertight, so be prepared for cache maintenance after damp weather. A cache that requires maintaince can otherwise sour a enjoyable caching experience. Appreciate feedback to keep your caches in tip top shape!

Living in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, there are so many great cache locations that are wasted with a micro, where a large cache container would have been more appropriate. I like large cache containers if for nothing else than room for a large log book to sign and enjoy reading. My kids also go crazy when they find a large container with swag. Geocaching is a family activity so I like to keep that in mind when placing most caches and make the effort to have a cache stocked with goodies that kids can enjoy. Micro's have a place in geocaching, but they are way overused anymore as a simple, unimaginative, cheap, and fast way to place a cache.

I would log it but it's your decision if you consider it a legit find or not.

When I first started caching, at least in our area, quite a few of the new caches would have cash in them for whoever was the FTF.

You didn't forget your GPS or your phone, did you? Why would you forget a pen? Whatever the reason, just fix the problem. Simple. Sure, you might still forget it occasionally... we all do. But to write it off as simply as you do in your post makes me think the "or just lazy" part may be more accurate. And if that is it... the answer once again is simple... stop being so lazy. You weren't too lazy to bring your GPS or phone, were you? Not to lazy to drive/bike/hike to the cache, were you? Not too lazy to make this post, correct? This is an easily fixable problem. [blush].. I remember to always bring the most obscure TOTTs but often forget my pen. I blame the kids for stealing them out of my vehicle.. I still believe in the old ways where it's the responsibility of the CO to supply a pen or pencil to sign the log book. I try to make sure I always have a sharpened pencil in my caches. If I go to all the work of creating a cache, it seems like it is incomplete if I don't supply everything that is needed for someone to enjoy my cache. If they went to the effort of finding my cache, I'm going to make my best effort that my cache is complete. When I'm out riding my bike, I might pull out my phone and see if there are any caches nearby. I've logged a few that didn't have anything to sign the log. I just don't carry a pencil or pen on me while out I'm riding my bike. If they delete my log, no big deal.

Eh. Since I find most caches interesting, it's much, much easier for me to find interesting caches than it would have been 10 years ago. The numbers game is the effect because of the approving of immeasurable numbers of poorly placed and low quality caches just for the sake of inflating find counts. Im happy you find most caches interesting but Ill take a cache in an interesting historical location or a beautiful view any day over a pill bottle thrown in the bushes and calling it a geocache. It takes a lot more work to find what I took for granted when I first started geocaching.