TahoeJoe

I was out yesterday in a remote area bagging a few caches and decided to try and find a micro nearby. After looking for 20 minutes I gave up as I was not having a good time. It reminded me again why I don't like micros or camouflage caches that are almost impossible to find.

In the early days of geocaching money was sometimes packed as a FTF prize.

Remote caches placed in a durable container such as an ammo can with few visits will be around for years even if the CO has long since disappeared. I like to think of these caches as relics. Most of my original remote caches from 2003-03 are still in great shape with very few visits these days. I'm confident they will be around for years to come.

Exactly. Like cezanne, you say "normal", but all you mean is "caches I enjoy". The cache you describe is not, by any legitimate definition, remotely normal, so you should stop acting as if the caches you like have some magical "normal" attribute that automatically makes them superior. Back in the early days of geocaching hikes to interesting places was the norm of geocaching, today these types of caches are not. I prefer these types of caches over what's mostly out there today. In my experience if someone took the time to research and place a cache in an interesting location off the beaten path and took the time to purchase or construct a quality cache container stocked with a large logbook and nice swag, yes it's more than likely going to be a superior cache. At the very least the cache container itself is superior compared to the throw down and PT caches that are prevalent today. While not everyone wants to involve a hike to a cache, I would like to think that a large percentage of cachers enjoy a nice sized cache container. Of course if you are playing for numbers, then the numbers become more important than the journey and the cache itself becomes a means to an end. I don't consider PT's and throw downs to represent the true spirit of geocaching.

I started in 2002 and it was around 75 percent ammo can finds for my first couple of years playing. Micros were just starting to show up and were kind of a novelty. The majority of my finds were interesting places and I still remember most of them. If the containers were not ammo cans, they were something big enough to hold a large log book and swag to trade. No overstating for my playground. Guess it depends on whether you started playing in a rural or urban (LA/Orange County) area...but believe me, there were lots of non ammo can and smaller caches back then. Very rural where I live which would account for a higher rate of larger containers but still memorable caches compared to most caches around here today. You are not very far from one of my ammo can caches...Wilson Canyon Cache near Smith Valley/Yerington, has been there waiting for you for 13+ years Sounds like a cache I would enjoy. Great time of year to go look for it. Thanks!

I started in 2002 and it was around 75 percent ammo can finds for my first couple of years playing. Micros were just starting to show up and were kind of a novelty. The majority of my finds were interesting places and I still remember most of them. If the containers were not ammo cans, they were something big enough to hold a large log book and swag to trade. No overstating for my playground. Guess it depends on whether you started playing in a rural or urban (LA/Orange County) area...but believe me, there were lots of non ammo can and smaller caches back then. Very rural where I live which would account for a higher rate of larger containers but still memorable caches compared to most caches around here today.

I started in 2002 and it was around 75 percent ammo can finds for my first couple of years playing. Micros were just starting to show up and were kind of a novelty. The majority of my finds were interesting places and I still remember most of them. If the containers were not ammo cans, they were something big enough to hold a large log book and swag to trade. No overstating for my playground.

When you say "normal caches", so you mean anything other than "caches I like"? When I say normal, I do not mean caches I like ... You say this, but then you proceed with several paragraphs that I can only interpret as caches you like being "normal": the value was in the journey, classic containers, nothing fancy, easy to find, relaxing, and on and on, any one of which someone else could as easily value the opposite of you, thus concluding that caches are getting better and better rather than worse and worse. When I hear normal cache, the first thing that comes to my mind is a hike to an interesting location with an ammo can and large log book. That's how it was for the first few years of geocaching and that's the type of caching I enjoy. For someone who joined geocaching recently, normal might be a power trail cache or perhaps even a throw down. I'll always think of a hike and ammo can as normal as that is how geocaching started and was branded for many years. If you were there at or near the beginning of geocaching, then it's very understandable when you hear someone say the quality of caches has declined.

I'd be inclined to support this, where I live anyway - there are more, what I would call good caches within a mornings drive of me than I possibly have time to do. Long walks, climbs, boating/kayaking etc, the only thing that gets in our way is the hiking ability of my 6 year old, and how far I'm keen to carry the 3 year old! There are oodles of urban micros too, the kids don't mind these..... but the good caches are certainly there too.... That's great, sounds like an area I'd like to visit.

Ignoring the fact that different people are capable of maintaining different numbers of caches, what's to stop someone from creating additional accounts and using them to hide caches? If Groundspeak decides that an account can have only 100 active caches, then someone who wants a 2000-cache numbers run trail will just create 20 accounts. If the limit is 10 active caches, then they'll just create 200 accounts. That's silly, if someone is that obsessed and has that much time on their hands, geocaching is the least of their problems. Perhaps they should go to a geocaching support group.

Sounds good to me, it will give you something to do on the way back.

Dandy idea! I like your style! (: Nooooooo, it will only encourage more!

I'd wager that the Reviewers would not appreciate any sort of 'wow' factor requirement. Reviewers should not be required to determine the subjective qualities of a cache. That was part of the demise of Virtuals, and potentially of Challenge Caches as well. If there is some subjective quality threshold to Traditionals, then Trads will become the next type of cache to be halted. While it's true as a reviewer you would not know if a cache has a wow factor, it would be obvious that submitting 50 caches at once for approval along a road or trail would definitely not fit into the wow category. I'm pretty sure as a reviewer you develop a good feel for the potential quality of most caches. The number of caches a CO has out would be a good starting point for approving a cache. I look at one particular cacher in my area who has close to 200 caches in the area, they were upset that someone didn't replace the lid on one of their caches when a needs maintainance was logged so the cache was archived. I'm willing to bet that their archived caches are never removed. I filter out this particular CO's caches as they tend to be park and toss caches. Another local cacher has over 800 caches placed! Limiting the number of caches a CO can have in in play would be a great place to start. It would be great to see the quality of caches improve.

I have absolutely no problem with COs competing to try to one up each other with better and better caches. I appreciate the creativity even when a trend heads off in a faddish direction that doesn't appeal to me. I have no fear whatsoever that such competitions will do anything but increase the overall quality of other hides. I've never seen any fad in hides rise to the level of shutting out "normal" caches. The problem for me is just that I prefer the normal caches over those other that just make me nervous. They are nicely done as containers but caching never has to for me about that aspect - it has never been part of my geocaching world. So the performance on that scale does not enter my personal quality criteria for a geocache I want to go for. My thoughts exactly. Very few geocaches I find today have the wow factor I used to expect. I remember when virtual caches were on their way out one of the requirements was for you to get a virtual listed was for it to have to stand out and not just be some photo of a roadside plaque. I wish the same requirements would be in effect today for traditional caches. I'm amazed that power trail caches were ever allowed. They are about as far away from what geocaching started out as you could be.

Blasphemy! Ammo cans are the ultimate geo container. To state otherwise would be like celebrating the 4th of July without apple pie and fireworks! My ammo cans have dirt and mud on one side and dents on the other. My first geocache was placed 13 years ago rests nestled in some rocks on the summit of a 11,000 foot mountain top exposed to the harshest of conditions. The ammo can's integrity is as good as the day I placed it. I apologize. I was meaning in general that I don't necessarily find an ammo can creative; and that it can be an unoriginal hide, but doesn't mean it is. I love an ammo can off of a long hike or at the top of a 14er. Sorry if I came off offensive. My apologies also, I didn't find your post offensive at all. I was using a little humor in my post to state my opinion and didn't do a very good job at it. Your cache sound very creative and It's always nice to find a creative container at the end of a search which enhanches the geocaching experience and encourages the placement of better quality caches.

;-) I see it too. Hiders prepare tiny logs, and then use them in whatever containers they're hiding. ("signed tiny log" is becoming a regular phrase in my logging). I'm seeing a sharp increase in gimmick caches too - find cache, then work out how to extract log. These have always been around, but now there's a raging epidemic of them. People chasing favorite points I guess. (They fair badly in this moist, warm climate. Even the ubiquitous PVC tube caches, meant to fill with water to float the inner container up do badly - the tube grows algae and the inner container sticks. Various puzzle boxes, bird houses mostly, warp and swell...) I have yet to see these types of caches in our area.

The Golden age of nice hikes to trading caches is NOW. The notion that your local caching has to be "within 30 miles" is a terrifically urban idea, ie, that's today's caching. "Years ago", there were just a lot fewer caches, and as now, most of them were hidden in the triangle of home/school/work. There were far more "walk in the parks", caches in neighbor parks, and fewer roadside grabs. But that's why we had the acronym, YAPIDKA (yet another park I didn't know about - and don't much care, either). Through the magic of pocket queries, I find 219 regular and large caches within 35 miles of your Kissimmee SP cache. Many in lovely places that would likely be less than a 2 hour drive from you. Trek Ten Trails program currently owns 25 caches, all large ammo cans. They'll change out most of those annually. You could find one TrekTenTrail cache a month, and not get half of them each year before they changed them all out. New properties, different trails on the old properties. The Green Swamp to your northwest has 146 trading caches (nearly all ammo cans). To the east of you, Lake Lizzie, Three Lakes Wildlife Management Area and more. No golden age of nice hikes to trading caches in this area either. From what I've been reading in the forums over the years that time ended around the time of the rapid expansion of geocachers with the introduction of the smartphone which is also around the time numbers started became more important than the journey. The hiking caches are still out there but most of them at least in my area were placed before the micros and nanos took over. With so many geocachers playing now, you should be able to stick close to home with plenty of new quality caches popping up now and then. With family and work, I don't always have the luxury of driving 30 miles away to find a cache. Geocaching is not at the top of my priorities but I still get out to hike, bike and exercise and it's great if I can incorporate geocaching into my activities.

If you do it 1500 times a day it just may help. LOL

My first find was recently archived and I would love to take it over but the CO is long gone. Pretty sure legal issues keep GS from doing this. I suppose if GS transferred the cache over it would be showing ownership of the cache on their part. Can't say I blame them but too bad.

Driving along a power trail and jumping out of your car is not going to help you lose weight. Choosing caches that involve a hike on the other hand will burn much more calories. If you have a dog he will be happier also.

In my personal opinion it's a bad thing regardless of whether or not one owns caches. Due to the nature of my caches, I feel affected much more as a searcher than as a cache owner. My caches reflect the mindset of the early years of geocaching. They involve a hike to a interesting location with either a great view or historic value. Most are ammo cans with a full size logbook and trinkets to trade. All of my physical caches are in pretty remote locations and for the most part have been unaffected by the new generation of cachers who are mostly (not all) interested in how many caches they can find or hide. They tend to avoid my caches like the plague. Phones aren't necessarily a bad thing, I switched over a few years back to simplify things. Remember the old days where you printed out cache listings on paper and would have to hand enter the coordinates when you went to search for a new cache? What has created the current problems is allowing cache owners to place as many caches as they desire thus creating power trails and poor quality caches. My 11 traditional caches keep me busy enough. I could probably reasonably maintain around 20, but after that I would be adding to the problem. I like cachers to know if they search for one of my caches, they will find a well maintained cache in a great location. It's great to hear geocaches talking about the great caches they find instead of bragging about how many they found. I would love to see a cap on the number of caches you are allowed to own. There is already a restriction of how far away you can own a cache so this makes perfect sense to me. By restricting hide amounts, you would free up good hiding locations wasted by power trail caches and throw downs. I'm sure this would also make things easier for reviewers.

Today I found a geocache that had all the elements of a great cache. It involved a nice hike to a interesting location and the cache was a no nonsense camo ammo can placed in plain sight with breathtaking views. Too bad it was a relic cache from a geocacher who disappeared from the game in 2004. It is the last surviving cache from this particular CO. I would like to have found more from him.

I've geocached for 14 years and have not noticed cloud cover interfering with the signal. I've had a harder time acquiring a accurate signal in forests and canyons which block GPS signals.

Looks like he was pretty active and then all of a sudden stopped. That's too bad if he has passed. I would just let the caches run their course and log needs archived when needed. I just logged a cache this morning from a cacher that stopped in 2004 and the cache is still in great shape. If he placed popular caches, it would be nice to let them continue on.

Blasphemy! Ammo cans are the ultimate geo container. To state otherwise would be like celebrating the 4th of July without apple pie and fireworks! My ammo cans have dirt and mud on one side and dents on the other. My first geocache was placed 13 years ago rests nestled in some rocks on the summit of a 11,000 foot mountain top exposed to the harshest of conditions. The ammo can's integrity is as good as the day I placed it.