Encino

Wow, you guys are really doing a great job of making FTF hounds look bad! The literature in question is the literature that everyone receives when they pay the required fee to enter the park. Perhaps our FTF hounds didn't see the literature because they entered the park without paying the fee? I predict that you will claim that this is somehow still not their fault, though to be honest I can't predict what the excuse will be this time. There is a lot of supposition here. Do you know they entered the park without paying the fee? I've looked at the Hollister Hills SVRA website and was unable to locate anything about restricted access to any specific part of the park. Heck, the Geocaching event they put on isn't even listed in their events calendar. The page does state the park is open from dawn to dusk 7 days a week. The fee schedule has daily or yearly passes - maybe the ones to went after the caches had yearly passes? Until we hear (if we do) from these FTF hounds, all we are getting is one side of the story. I love how people want to jump in and find somebody guilty without all the evidence.

So the caches are located in an area not available to all cachers? I wouldn't have stopped at an "Event" if I was out caching. I don't do events. If it was published and no restrictions are listed on the page or at the cache site, I don't see an issue. Now if the caches are located in an area that is restricted and posted, that is a different story (and issue).

Since the cache was published on GC (apparently by the land managers themselves) and there were no indications on the pages about any event, then why would you expect the cachers to "ASK" if attendance at this event was required?

There was a cache-and-release event in my area a couple of years ago. One of the requirements to have your cache included as part of the event was to put the following into your short description: The caches were published the day before to give people time to plan their route, but the searching couldn't start until noon. Of the 29 caches released, not a single cache was found early, and there are A LOT of FTF-hounds in this town. If you don't want people to find your cache before a certain time or date, you have to say so in the description. That's the only way to make sure everyone gets the message. If you don't say anything, as far as cachers can tell, it's fair game. Would that not be an ALR? Wouldn't it be easier to just have the cache(s) published after the event to ensure only attendees can be the first to search for them?

I'm by no means a FTF hound (never had a FTF!), not really interested in that part of the game. There does appear to be a bit more to this story though! From looking at the caches you are referring to, these caches were actually published prior to the event (on 2 April), then retracted the same day. The cache pages themselves also do not refer to any event or that they were located in an off-limits part of the park (or that any fee or permit is required). It is possible those who found the cache prior to the event, got notifications and downloaded the cache information prior to the retraction. Unless there is some indication at the park area that it is off-limits or a permit/fee required - then I don't see how you can fault the ones who found it prior to the event. It would appear to be an issue with either the ones who placed the caches for submitting them early or the Reviewer if he was not suppose to publish them until later.

Hey Encino, Thank you for your insight. I agree that caches on electrical equipment are a bad idea but I personally wouldn't remove one or avoid finding one. I am curious. If you found a cache around electrical equipment OTHER than your companies or while you were not on the job, just caching, would you still remove the cache? While you are working it is you obligation to remove the caches but what if they aren't on company equipment or were found on personal time? I would confer with the property owner and remove the cache if he/she/they did not give or does not wish to continue to give permission for the cache to be hidden among electrical equipment. So the answer would almost always be yes. And yes, I would check if permission was given.

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility, unfortunately, that is not how our society works. I've had to give dispositions numerous times in cases when individuals were injured (or killed in one case) because they were messing with company electrical equipment. Instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions, they try to blame others (hoping for monetary compensation). This is why you will not get permission to place Geocaches in or around our equipment. We are specifically instructed to remove all debris in or around the equipment when we service it. If we are servicing equipment on private/business owned property, it is removed at the discretion of the property owner (and noted in our reports). Sorry if people are offended, but yes, I will remove Geocaches I find. Those I recognize as geocaches will be turned into the company and/or property owner. As a courtesy, I'll notify the CO and ask them to archive the listing and let them know where they can pick up the cache. So far, since I started playing this game, I have not had to do it. But since I have found them in the past, I'm sure it is only a matter of time.

Not when it is on company/private property without permission.

That is not a violation of the TOU. As long as he is under the supervision of his/her parent or legal guardian, then as a minor he/she is not violating the TOU (as it pertains to minors using the site).

I really hate to see those type of hides. All it takes is one person to damage those wires and somebody could get the shock of their life. While most electrical equipment is safe, they can become unsafe easily when damaged. Stray Voltage shocks happen more often that people realize! You are right about adequate permission, in a case like that. That light pole is owned by someone, therefore, is private property. I would be surprised if permission was granted to hide one there, just on the liability issue only (most insurance companies can and do deny claims when equipment is not used properly or for its intended purpose).

Good for you! If and when you decide to hide any caches, you certainly won't mind if someone/anyone takes exception to them and removes them, will you? I've found many caches that I would just as rather toss into the desert...I'm not quite sure what it is that stops me from doing so... If by some small chance I place it on private property without permission, then yes, it should be removed.

I'm an electrician that works for a major power company. Over the years (before I became active in the game), I've found probably half a dozen caches around electrical equipment I was working on. I normally just threw them away as trash. Geocaches have no business around electrical equipment, especially any that would be disguised as equipment themselves. If you want to set one up on your own property and willing to accept the liability (especially since your insurance probably won't cover it), then go for it, but keep it off privately owned equipment without permission. Now that I'm in the game, if I find them around the equipment, I will remove them, and either turn it over to Lost Property or the Business Owner and email the cache owner where to pick it up. This would also go for any lamp post caches I find that are hidden inside the equipment.