Zzzoey & illDRIVEuNav

to see new and old Chief Paulina caches. It seems wherever we go, there is another Paulina cache waiting to be found. Somehow they seem to be getting harder and harder, and seeing as we are so old, we might have to put some of this new series off for a while when we have the time to devote a full day to each. You put so much effort into each cache. Great job Paulina, you have an eye for great cache sites and great cache hides, and we look forward to many more Paulina finds in the future!

On one of the very first caches we ever placed. Luckily our friends were the first finders, and knew we had lost it.. so we got it back. Funny thing is.. I never liked that holster.. It was really for a Magellan, and I have a Garmin.. and I end up carrying the GPS at elbow level most the time anyway.

Along these same lines... we don't pick up more than one bug from a cache, but then I don't think we have ever encountered that. Often there are missing bugs that show up on the cache page... We enjoy trying to help travel bugs along, and take goofy pictures of them for the bug owners enjoyment. I know the point of the tag and the logging in to the travel bug page is to find out it's goal, but we have found that the bugs we have "hatched" that we included their goal WITH them... physically.. as in an attached tag or inside a ziplock baggie with the bug.. those bugs seem to move faster and in a much more, dare I say.. direct route toward their goal. I understand that this is entirely up to the bug owner, but I appreciate when I pick up a bug... knowing where it is going. Often we don't have fresh cache pages that show the travel bugs we will come across. Without knowing the goals, we have been guilty of grabbing bugs and returning them to where they came from, or moving them in the opposite direction of where they are going. I actually followed a thread earlier on this where Seth! had a special tag, and I have tried to do something like that with all my newest travel bugs. The more information the cacher is armed with, the better.. in my honest opinion.

We don't usually log DNFs if we couldn't even get close. Due to snow or washout (a road was washed out near Florence preventing us from getting to a cache) but if we look in what we THINK is the right area, and we don't find it.. we will log it as a not found. When we first started caching, I viewed logging a Did not find as a sortof failure. Stupid as that sounds. Now, I could care less. I appreciate other peoples DNF's when seeking a cache, as it gives me that much more information on hand. Also, after a few DNF's... the cache owner should be conscientous enough to go check out the cache, but if you don't ever log your DNF, how are the cache owners to know it may be missing or destroyed?

Be on the lookout. I am printing maps like a madwoman! Can't wait to get out there even if we don't place any caches, to take some photos with the new camera! No camera I have ever had has EVER done the Painted Hills justice! Much less some of the places near Cant Ranch.

I actually e-mailed Seth! right before I posted the topic, but I'm just too impatient and was curious to hear what the caching population at large would think...

We've been considering placing a series of virtual caches in the John Day Fossil Beds National Monument and we're wondering if they'll be accepted by the powers that be... From what we've heard virtuals are getting tougher and tougher to get past the administrators but is that the case when it's in a place where actual caches aren't allowed? There seem to be plenty of virtuals in places like Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon... Our concern of course is that we'll go out and do all the leg work and then get shot down. So would reputable cachers be interested in hunting virtuals in the Painted Hills or in the shadow of Sheep Rock? Please let us know what you think...

As we know you occasionally are Sparklehorse, there's always the military surplus joint by the underpass along hwy 97... I know this is supposed to be PDX related but just had to give a shout out!!

This begs the question... Do old cachers die or do they just ingest McDonald's toys and candles, perhaps even a mini notepad and pencil...and crawl out into the woods, coordinates unknown??

We decided not to even go to this one on our recent coastal trip because it seemed pretty poorly planned... We were so busy hitting well-maintained and well-planned caches by Robinhood that it just didn't seem worth our time. It never ceases to amaze us how some people attempt to place caches before they really figure out what the whole thing's about.

Oh Sissy, I am so sorry to hear about your kitty. It breaks my heart. For some of us, our pets are like our children.. and I would have a hard time with that situation.. would blame myself because the cat would be alive if I had done something different with the collar. I honestly believe things happen for a reason, and maybe the reason this horrible accident happened to your kitty was to teach all the rest of us a little lesson. I thank you for sharing your story with us. I am going to check the collars on all my cats tonight.

Thanks for the little advertisement for Conde's Creations Navdog.. I put a lot of time and effort into that cache and I hope others will enjoy it. In fact, I would say out of all the caches we have placed.. this "lowly" locationless took the most pre-planning before I was willing to post it. I consider it a compliment when people seek my caches.

Absolutely well said DiscoJason, I agree 100%. I think we are missing a bigger point here. We all have different tastes.. we all have different favorite caches. You may like a cache or hate a cache, but it seems to me that the ones that yelp the loudest about cache pollution or cheesiness.. are right out there FINDING those same caches they complain about. As far as locationless and virtual caches, we have really enjoyed the ones we have done. If you choose not to do them, that is your right. But to me it is damaging to the sport to wield an "elitist" attitude about it.. if you choose not to hunt them... don't hunt them... I don't care what you do. We all have different likes/dislikes. For us, many virtuals and locationlesses have been quite enjoyable because we end up in interesting spots.. places where there is more to offer than just the statue or plaque. For me.. geocaching is more than just finding a box full of trinkets.. it is about visiting a spot and learning about it. Many of these virtuals are set in areas where there are also excellent photo taking opportunities. My photography skills have improved because of geocaching and the places we have been able to visit. I just get tired of the "elitist" attitude I hear so much among geocachers. If you don't like a particular cache or type of cache.., please.. by all means email the cache owner or geocaching.com to complain. These broad stereotypes just don't cut it with me. To tell someone that if they do virtuals or locationless caches, they are not "contributing" to the sport... well it is just petty and immature in my opinion. They may not contribute to YOUR enjoyment of the sport.. but each cacher is different.. each cache is different. Get over yourself... What is most enjoyable to you, may not be to others. I feel that many cachers fancy themselves and their own caches so much.. they become caching "snobs" and begin to 'dis others to try to bolster their own caches or ideas. They may think many caches are BENEATH them. That is fine.. don't search for them. Thanks DiscoJason for saying so eloquently what I just garbled up~! Time for a vacation. I feel that holiday edge. Too much driving, not enough caching. Virtual, locationless.. regular cache.. I don't care.. I just need to go CACHING!

We have been all over the Salem/Portland/McMinnville area this week and the windstorm hit while we were sleeping in a camp trailer. Thought we would wake up in Kansas. Quite a loud and powerful storm. The interesting thing was the way it came in waves... as quick to back off and then blast as ocean waves at the beach. Of course we were in a tiny valley up in the Coast Range so perhaps that is a wind pattern created by the mountains. Being from Central Oregon, every time we come to the Willamette Valley lately it is so frustrating because of the rain. Anyone else travel the passes this holiday? If so, how much snow..etc where you were? Our trip over was one of driving 35-45 mph in the dark with wipers that barely know what rain is... rain and mix of snow and rain... Hard to keep on top of having good wipers when you never use them. I think they don't last as long because they get dried and crack or something on the East side. I am truly JONESING to do some caching but this rain is so DREARY!

We only cache together. As far as group caching, we are enough of a group, illDRIVE, myself and the geopup. Get more people and you start getting conflicting GPS's... those who like to RACE.. those who lag behind.. Do you try to be courteous and let someone else find it.. things can get competitive just between the TWO of us.. we had to stop keeping tally of how many he finds versus how many I find.. in the end we really enjoy hunting them by ourselves. Placing them is another story. Often times the more eyes the more chances you will see a good place to hide or put a waypoint tag, and of course new ideas and creative names... But then you have to worry about giving your cache away with footprints/trampled bushes. I don't think I would enjoy hunting alone, it is a joy to share! Plus we have our seperate duties.. I almost always sign the log and pick the trade items.. illDRIVE almost always writes it all down in OUR notebook, and we get in and out in a flash!

My vote is for Bend/Redmond, Oregon area. I may be biased as I live here, but take a few look sees at some of the caches and the geography of the area is VERY condusive to caching. Besides that we have many creative cachers that put lots of effort into their caches and the NUMBER ONE reason I like this area.. it doesn't rain a lot. No briars, no mud.. no slippery slidy rotting leaves... lots of lava rocks and bluffs, caves, cracks, buttes, mountains.. etc.. [This message was edited by Zzzoey on December 10, 2002 at 10:10 AM.]

Well thanks for the compliment! Most of us are nice and fun people and we are just participating in a newly found and exciting game. I appreciate what you do and we really enjoyed the trail. I think I know what species you look after, and we didn't see any but hope to! I hope to see you get involved in geocaching. It is refreshing to hear another voice and your concerns are definitely taken to heart at least by me. We tend to be introverted and shy people by nature.. not all but many. I have to admit we have been pretty NON-permission-getting. This is a great wake up call. Thanks for being understanding and maybe sometime we will run into you. We live in Madras and love the Deschutes, Crooked and Metolius rivers and all the canyons, buttes, basins and forests between them. I think we all agree it is well worth preserving and we will try our best to do just that. Most of the time people put caches in locations that are a little off the beaten path. Perhaps you know of a really neat place, and think the 10-30 people a year who find it.. would love it too. It is so fun to share these places that we tend to forget that by sharing them, we put those places at risk, by more people knowing about them. Sortof a double edged sword but it exists. I have known of one fossil location, told someone about it, and that person whom I thought I knew and trusted, completely destroyed the sensitive fossil site. Here I was extracating these fossils with soft brushes and dental tools, and this guy take a wheelbarrow, a couple shovels and a screen... the site will never be the same. I have very little respect for the guy after that. He just didn't think. He thought hey it's there i am gonna take it.. who cares what happens after i leave. Greed I guess. I think there are a few caches that we have out there that we will probably need to move just because so many folks have logged them. I don't want a beaten path to the caches! So, I think we will cycle caches and move them around and keep people guessing! Thanks and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

We would never want to harm a place with a cache and the subsequent cache hunts. Those who know us or of our caches know that. I will temporarily disable the cache and try to get back to change it's location. True that it is on a slope. True that people can access it via clear game trails. True that sometimes geocachers don't think about anything but heading straight to the cache. We placed it where we did because there was already a letterbox in the area and we didn't want to put them too close. Thanks Snazz for letting me know this was such a hot issue, and giving us the benefit of the doubt. It is easy to look at some cache location and NOT realize that the people who put it there really were trying to make it an enjoyable and adventuresome experience. I should have known better, as this area is quite popular. Thanks to those of you who found and enjoyed the cache! I hope I can find a place suitable to everyones concerns.

Thanks to Leapin' Lizards for these photos from our travel bug "Zero the Millenium Bug" Zero narrowly escapes a Y2K bug... wait a minute, you mean there are still some around?!? NAH! After learning that he was obsolete, the Y2K bug felt quite lonely and was very happy that Zero didn't hold a grudge.

We haven't done many caches around Portland, but the ones we did do, we enjoyed. Rings and Hot Air Balloons - RFE #1B both worth the time to find

I don't know how many caches we got, 30 some.. but you are right Fresh Meat, the thing that takes the longest is logging them all. Since I like to put up photos, it takes FOREVER! We placed a new cache in K. Falls to thank everyone for all their caches. It is a virtual, so it won't get plundered. Since we don't live down there, I hate to place a real cache. We did that near McMinnville, and within a few weeks one of the caches had been MOVED, and we were physically unable to go to it to try to find it. I enlisted the help of my GPS carrying dad, but in the end had to beg the last person who found it to come back. Thanks to Robinhood for helping us out there. We have really decided we love the K. Falls area, and the Dalles area. We did some caching in Salem, a little in Portland, and out to Corvallis, but have yet to do ANY caching at the beach. We tend to visit the beach during the off season, as the rooms are far cheaper. So, still keeping tabs on all the Robinhood caches and planning our raid. We enjoy doing a raid after someone else has done one in the area. It is fun to find caches in the same or different order than they did. We did a raid of K. Falls right after Oregone and Laurencat in May... then this last weekend - well.. the caches we found.. most had the last people logging them.. as Oregone & Laurencat, in MAY! K. Falls misses Gloom and Missnomer, that much is clear.

We were so moved by Lazyboy's sad story that we've decided to pack up our printouts and head down south for the weekend. We noticed a thread with a discussion about the record for caches found in a day in the KF area. We were there when we were just geo-babes, fresh off of our first 5 or 6 caches, and we were able to find 17 in a day and still drive home to Madras. 35-40 seems like a stretch but we do have about 70 cache pages and a bucket full of maps and atlases. We'd be happy to find half of 'em over the weekend of course. Does anybody have any suggestions for a good spot to hit for our 200th find?? illDRIVEuNav

We just did krumholz and the hole last week and it truly is a high desert adventure. Squaw Creek is also on our list of finds although Moondog3 might have to change the name now that the new anti-"squaw word" legislation has passed. There are many other wonderful caches in the Nat'l Grasslands including "A Farewell to Joy", "David's Haystack Hideout", Corral", "Orchard", and "Ring Around the Rimrocks". It's a great place to be a cacher!! The rain seldom falls here and our only regret will be seeing the snow begin to fall on our favorite mountain caches.

I didn't register.. but I have been to the ESRI conference in the past. Where I work now, we just don't use much ESRI software anymore. Is the big shebang still in Palm Springs? THAT was fun!~

MIXED NEWS! Well, we finally were able to get out to the site of the Eyerly Fire here in North Central Oregon. The preliminary reports were true. Nature in Balance geocache is burned up. We placed a new microcache near the old one to commemorate the original: Out of the Ashes: Ode to Nature in Balance We also went up to the site of one of our first caches, The Quest for the Holy Grail Although the cache itself survived, the area was burned in spots, and the initial waypoint was vaporized, along with the large snag that the film canister was tucked in. Sad to say that snag had an osprey nest way up in the top of it, and that of course is gone too. We archived the cache, moved the ammo box and made new waypoints to it, this time out of metal tags. The new cache is Out of the Ashes: The Quest Lives! Please check out all of the sites, as I put up quite a few pictures we took of the aftermath of the wildfire.