fox-and-the-hound
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Posts posted by fox-and-the-hound
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Congratulations on this huge endeavor! I remember the nail-biting anxiety of planning and waiting so just hang in there, it's going to be an amazing experience from start to finish and beyond!
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Thanks for the trades at Block Party, these came out really, really nicely!
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It's going to make more sense (I think) if I just add my comments between your post from above, rather than 'reply'.
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I guess "clever" applies more to the fact that a lot of thought went into the process of actually producing them and that they can actually be used at events in the future forever.
Yes, kudos for the amount of thought. I'm positive it was a serious effort.
Obviously you're disappointed and that's unfortunate for the coin producers. This is a chance to learn what could have been better though so...
You mention having a matching set with matching codes being a problem. I'm not seeing the problem in this case though. Coin pairs have been made with identical codes almost from the beginning so that's not exactly new. Having a proxy set match the coins exactly is pretty much the whole point. You have twice as many chances to have a trackable out traveling, too. Not sure how this is a problem or a bad thing in anyone's book.
I guess here that you are suggesting releasing BOTH proxies for twice the fun ... ?? There is a serious problem with that. You can't have 2 proxies traveling in 2 different locations at the same time. Proxy1 gets logged into Ohio. Proxy2 can't be logged unless it is retrieved or grabbed from Ohio. Then #2 may get placed in Florida. #1 cacher wonders how it got out of their inventory and into a Florida cache, so they correct the situation by placing it in the Canadian cache they are now finding. Now Proxy2 wonders how their coin disappeared from their inventory and checks the trackable history. What happens after this is anyone's guess, but I'll almost guarantee it isn't going to turn out well.
We just had this happen 2 weeks ago, and this one turned out OK. Our GXproxy#1 (for a Masquerade coin) traveled, then disappeared. We ordered a GXproxy#2 replacement and sent it out. It traveled for a while. Suddenly GXproxy#1 reappeared mysteriously thousands of miles away. Research confirmed both proxies were now traveling. Fortunately, one understanding cacher was willing to take the time to get an envelope and USPS (at their cost - we offered to pay however) the duplicate proxy to us. It arrived Monday. Trust me ... you DO NOT want 2 of the same code numbers traveling simultaneously ...
Coin 'pairs' may not be exactly 'new' (1 original, 1 proxy), but pairs paired (2 identical originals, 2 identical proxies) ..?? .. not so .. that I know of. ...
I love taking coins to events, too, for trade and discovery. I do realize these wouldn't travel in a binder, but I don't assume that's the only way for them to travel either. I've seen quite a few coins that don't or can't travel in a binder. I own a bunch like that and have to admit they don't travel with me in a binder either. I know these are all supposed to travel in caches, but the reality is we do carry them around. I don't know how to solve that problem for this coin set or any of the others with the same problem, but it's something I'll have to continue to think about. Mine are sitting on top of my coin rack because they don't fit in it. Of course that means people pick them up faster which has an appeal all its own, too. Thank you for mentioning it!
You mentioned not hooking travelers together, but that's pretty much the basis of every TravelBug I've ever seen personally. A tag attached to a trackable item that often has the code on it as well. << ??? ... I suppose they could be chained, glued or affixed in any number of interesting ways, but the idea of actually using them as real dice would then be altered. I don't know how that could be changed other than to permanently affix them together or only release one proxy at a time to travel. Have to think on that one. In the case of the matching proxies, would you have preferred to see a single coin-style proxy of the pair as opposed to a matched set?
Sounds like mixing coins and tags here, which isn't done on any traveling trackable that I HAVE EVER seen. What would be the point? Anyone who would do this risks the separation of the two identically numbered items, again, having 2 trackables trying to travel simultaneously as I explained above. Unless I'm doing it ALL WRONG ... coins (and proxy coins) travel as coins under their own code and items such as hotwheel cars, soldiers, dolls, keychains, etc travel with ONE travel tag chained or attached, bearing ONE code on ONE of the items (usually the tag itself). I have never seen a travel tag attached to a trackable coin in ANY manner and hope I never do. It would mean that the coin has one TB# and the tag has a different TB# ...
I'm not sure I understand the idea that a Mega event SHOULD have more than a single event coin. Don't get me wrong, I like to see as many cool coins as possible, but I don't ever expect to see more than one official coin. This is a bit of a new development in the last year or two to see more than one official coin. I kinda thought having an official coin being a single design was the whole point of it being "official" and I'm not a fan of the idea myself, but things do change.
I think I pretty much detailed this above in the reply to Bartian's post.
I'm glad you found good homes for you coins since you didn't enjoy them yourselves though. Thank you for your input, too. I appreciate when someone can express why they don't like an idea with a thoughtful approach and not resort to insults or vague grumbling. It's much more constructive to future projects!
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ...
I always enjoy hearing the good and the bad on any design and particularly those I was lucky enough to be a part of. I'll give some serious thought solutions to some of the ideas you mentioned, too. There's always another event coming up where we can share our ideas, be a part of the creative process and hopefully be lucky enough to see our ideas become realities!
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I'm glad you mentioned earlier that the GCF Event dice were 'casino spec'. That info was never passed on to attendees (afaik) and I was unaware. I've watched all the other sets being sold on the e-place (and here) and have yet to see the words 'casino spec' anywhere. Had I known, I would have used them.
Also lacking in info disseminated was the whole new production process. Who knew ... ?? Now a handful of us do, but the general attendees DO NOT and will likely never know. What a shame ...
... That info does NOT appear in any of the sales efforts either.In general, the info provided during the whole coinfest process was, to say the least, pitiful. Understandably ... not YOUR fault nor your responsibility. BUT ... the lack of communication was strikingly obvious. Somehow, MAKING cachers show up in Vegas to get coins (and tags) was pretty shortsighted, imo. How did that work out in the end for the bottom line (I wonder) ... ??
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edit in later .... you asked: In the case of the matching proxies, would you have preferred to see a single coin-style proxy of the pair as opposed to a matched set?
Single proxy preferred. Could have been a pair, one flat side, the top side with both die's angled on their points/corners to show 3 faces of each die, one logo on one die and the ID code on the back or on the face of one of the other die faces. Following my other thinking on 'matched set' ... please, NO duplicate codes on duplicate proxies.
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No, no, no!!! I DO NOT RECOMMEND SENDING OUT BOTH PROXIES AT ONCE (unless paired together in strong fashion - steel cable, super-glued, etc.)!!! I said you have twice as many chances to keep your mission alive. ie: If you send out one proxy die and it goes missing, you can then always send out the other if the first has been missing a significant amount of time or been confirmed lost or destroyed in a way that it is unretrievable.
Coin pairs with identical tracking codes have been around for a very long time. I have a Tools of the Trade coin pair that was produced back in 2004 or earlier so almost 10 years or so at this point. I have been told it was not the first to be produced this way, but I can not confirm that. I do have a few others made in pairs from 2005 moving forward as well.
Coins are pretty much fancy TravelBugs with custom icons. They're still just travelers. I've seen a number of them attached to solid items for traveling (both TBs and coins) and released a few myself that way. Sometimes a traveling item loses the tag, but the item is so unique that the TB# is put on it and it continues to travel even without the tag. I've seen a LOT of this example. Some never even had the tag attached at all in fact. Coins can be attached to a traveler just like the tags can and achieve identical results. There are even coins with multiple tracking codes on a single coin! I have seen coins (non-trackable) attached to TB tags as well. There are also single hitchhiking items with dozens of trackable codes, coins and tags attached. I've seen a bunch of those, too. There's no one particular way that any traveling code has to be used as long as it complies with Groundspeak guidelines.
I'll stick to my guns and say I prefer to see a single coin as the Official Event Coin. I don't want to have to show multiple coins in reference to a single event I enjoyed. It somehow seems to dilute the unique appeal of the genuine article when there's more than one. Call me old fashioned, but that's how I feel. If people (fest sub-committees) or individuals want to make more coins for side-events, invites to the next year's event, etc., that's fine by me. They each have their appeal and I support coins for those other events as well.
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... about the edit ... MY SO has her gold pans quite easily displayed in one of her binders. They were marginally thicker and wider than standard coins, so the binder sheet used is the standard 3 slot 4x6 photo sheet instead of the 9 slot trading card sheet. Those same 4x6 sheets are used for coins like 'The Observatory' (ultra thick), a Czech cross (extra wide), Mapamundo XXL, etc.
I'll have to look and see if I have any of my 4x6 negative sheets left over. I hadn't even pursued the idea concerned that they might damage the other coins or get damaged in return.
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"I'm not sure I understand the idea that a Mega event SHOULD have more than a single event coin. Don't get me wrong, I like to see as many cool coins as possible, but I don't ever expect to see more than one official coin. This is a bit of a new development in the last year or two to see more than one official coin. I kinda thought having an official coin being a single design was the whole point of it being "official" and I'm not a fan of the idea myself, but things do change."
Part of the problem is that last year there were 3 unique and interesting coins including the gold pan all in 2 different metals with proxies. Wow! That was a little difficult to follow up this year.
Actually there was only 1 official event coin last year and that was the gold pan. It was available in three metal finishes just like this year.
There was a Welcome to Geocoinfest event coin with the goldmine theme for that particular evening event prior to Coinfest.
There was a coin themed for the following Vegas 2013 that was released at the event as well, but again had nothing to do with being an official 2012 Coinfest coin.
Edit to add: Now that I think of it the Gold Pan also doesn't fit in my binders or travel to events for much the same reasons discussed above.
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Clever? Not!
Different? UMmmm ... sort of.
As a 'mega event' coin? Disappointed.
As dice being all THREE of the event coins? Triple disappointed.
Now the 'why' ... keep in mind we've only been to several years worth of events and only one other GCF in Denver, so we have limited 'experience', but my partner coin addict already has over 125 pounds of geocoins. I know this ... she coins ... I carry ...
One problem, all 4 items (2 coins, 2 proxies) have the same code. No matter how you do it, only 1 coin/die or one proxy can be released. Two proxies cannot travel at the same time without creating serious logging problems. If the proxies go out as a 'set' and later get separated (but cachers would 'never' do that
) there are 2 duplicate codes out traveling. Keeping track of old coins, new coins, trade coins, etc, I can't imagine a collector keeping one 'spare' proxy die 'somewhere' on standby for a year+ waiting for the first traveler to go MIA.We love taking the coin 'collection' to events to be discovered. There is no way to add 'dice' cubes reasonably to a binder sheet. Ours would NOT attend events or be seen by anyone else unless they came to the house.
I wouldn't even begin to suggest 'hooking' travelers together in any fashion other than obliterating one code on 1 proxy and super gluing that 'defaced-face' to the other proxy, then drilling a hole through one (or both) to create a method to attach a mission card, etc. They will never stay together in one zip-baggie.
In general terms, the 'dice' idea as the ONLY idea for a MEGA event coin ... was terrible.
I guess "clever" applies more to the fact that a lot of thought went into the process of actually producing them and that they can actually be used at events in the future forever.
Obviously you're disappointed and that's unfortunate for the coin producers. This is a chance to learn what could have been better though so...
You mention having a matching set with matching codes being a problem. I'm not seeing the problem in this case though. Coin pairs have been made with identical codes almost from the beginning so that's not exactly new. Having a proxy set match the coins exactly is pretty much the whole point. You have twice as many chances to have a trackable out traveling, too. Not sure how this is a problem or a bad thing in anyone's book.
I love taking coins to events, too, for trade and discovery. I do realize these wouldn't travel in a binder, but I don't assume that's the only way for them to travel either. I've seen quite a few coins that don't or can't travel in a binder. I own a bunch like that and have to admit they don't travel with me in a binder either. I know these are all supposed to travel in caches, but the reality is we do carry them around. I don't know how to solve that problem for this coin set or any of the others with the same problem, but it's something I'll have to continue to think about. Mine are sitting on top of my coin rack because they don't fit in it. Of course that means people pick them up faster which has an appeal all its own, too. Thank you for mentioning it!
You mentioned not hooking travelers together, but that's pretty much the basis of every TravelBug I've ever seen personally. A tag attached to a trackable item that often has the code on it as well. I suppose they could be chained, glued or affixed in any number of interesting ways, but the idea of actually using them as real dice would then be altered. I don't know how that could be changed other than to permanently affix them together or only release one proxy at a time to travel. Have to think on that one. In the case of the matching proxies, would you have preferred to see a single coin-style proxy of the pair as opposed to a matched set?
I'm not sure I understand the idea that a Mega event SHOULD have more than a single event coin. Don't get me wrong, I like to see as many cool coins as possible, but I don't ever expect to see more than one official coin. This is a bit of a new development in the last year or two to see more than one official coin. I kinda thought having an official coin being a single design was the whole point of it being "official" and I'm not a fan of the idea myself, but things do change.
I'm glad you found good homes for you coins since you didn't enjoy them yourselves though. Thank you for your input, too. I appreciate when someone can express why they don't like an idea with a thoughtful approach and not resort to insults or vague grumbling. It's much more constructive to future projects!
I always enjoy hearing the good and the bad on any design and particularly those I was lucky enough to be a part of. I'll give some serious thought solutions to some of the ideas you mentioned, too. There's always another event coming up where we can share our ideas, be a part of the creative process and hopefully be lucky enough to see our ideas become realities!
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For me personally, I like different things and these were different. HOWEVER, these being the OFFICIAL geocoins for this MEGA event were lacking (in my opinion) as "too simple" for such an event. I imagined a working Roulette Wheel with a dome and maybe a tiny ball bearing that rolled around.
I also was disappointed the XLE geocoin only available to Friends of Geocoinfest for an extra $100 were the same coins with a different finish. I was expecting areal elaborate coin (a working one arm bandit?) or whatever NOT another of the same.
Hmmm... interesting points.
"Too simple" is a very interesting response in itself. The fact that it looks simple is a HUGE compliment to the fact that they were able to produce them at all. The mint actually had to build a whole new system of production to create these. A coin simply has 2 sides and a die for each. A die has 6 sides and no place to make a clean extraction point from the molds without scarring the coins. It was a tremendous effort to make it possible to provide these clean and then to have all the pips in the right polar directions, too. Frankly, the mint said from the start they were doubtful that it could be done well and wanted to make changes right from the start that would have limited the ability to actually use them as a real set of dice.
A working roulette is pretty cool if it actually worked smoothly. XLE's are generally the same coin with a different finish/enameling so I'm not sure why anyone would expect a different coin all together, but having more than one coin could be a cool incentive, too. Thanks for the input!
edit 4 too spel
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While I can't claim the idea was mine, I thought it was pretty ingenious and I enjoyed being a part of the project. I really thought the idea of a pair of Vegas Casino-spec dice for a coin was pretty clever. I'm surprised by some of the reactions here about having a pair of dice though. I like to keep a pulse on what people like and dislike though so I'm hoping for a bit more feedback. I think people would have been very disappointed if they had received only one die. That just wouldn't make sense. Since it's a pair, why wouldn't you put the code on both? Obviously most people are not as hard on their coins as I am so they won't be rolling the real deal at future geo-get-togethers and a pair of proxies for play makes more sense. Again, why wouldn't they both have codes? (By the way, if you do send out one of yours and it goes awol, the proxies can be replaced. They made hundreds of backups pairs that can be engraved with your tracking codes if you lose one.)
They went crazy fast so most people definitely liked the idea, but I'm curious to hear from those who didn't. What do you think would have worked better using the same idea of a set of dice made to Casino specs? Attached to each other or free so they actually function as intended? Maybe some way to hook them together later? Throw some ideas out there if you have them, I'm always looking to learn!
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I really like this coin! I had an idea to make a shield coin in similar fashion, but I just couldn't solidify it in my mind the way you did here and it's really well done. I'm partial to the all metal look, but the strong contrast in the colors is beautiful. The wood grain is fantastic. Just really cool all around! I'd love to trade with you when you're ready
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As long as we're playing this game, I have one, too. I'm embarrassed to admit I can't recall the name of the coin. It's a square plaque style coin with black enamel fill and a 3d silver wolf's head on it in half-profile. I had several, traded some away, traded one back and was gifted one, so it's been out there for awhile, but I can't recall what it was called. I thought it was Timber Wolf or something like that. Any ideas?
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Congratulations on the success of the coins and event! Can't wait to see the pictures
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E-mail sent and congratulations!
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It's probably less sinister than you'd imagine. A lot of us have a watch setting on the very first trackable we discovered or just one that had an unusual mission. We like to see where they end up and the logs of their travel just as much as the owner. I have a watchlist on the very first TB I ever moved as it's mission was to get to the southpole. 7 years later, I'm still watching just out of curiosity to know if I was part of the successful mission with such an incredible journey.
People set watches on these trackables for all kinds of reasons, but I understand the concern, too. I agree with just logging it after a few days. -
I've seen that quite a bit over the years and I even take the time to write a little note on the flip to let someone know they've found something different than the usual, but alas very little if any reaction these days. Ah well, the few times you get an explosive reaction make it worthwhile, but it is disappointing to get a "TFTC, took coin" response
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Congratulations Beverly! I hope you bring it to the 'Bash to show off
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I'll have to write on me bodily to remember I'm sure, but I WILL try to remember! lol
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Guess my point is...Geocoin, geocoin proxy, travel bug...whatever...just keep having fun placing them out and watching their travels.
Let me tell you something... People don't want to find anything other than the real thing.
Consider that when deciding to release or re-release a traveler.
bd
Unless I missed something here, it looks like most of the people in this thread don't have a problem with it when they're clearly marked. I'm "people" and I like them both so please don't speak for the rest of us. We're quite capable and fine with speaking for ourselves.
I am curious as to why you consider it completely normal to send out a TB marked clearly as copy of the original, but not a coin. They're both impressed pieces of metal with a design on them. They both look similar although one is clearly marked as a copy. I've even seen hundreds over the years without any metal tag at all, but with only a code inscribed, written or marked on it and all these seem to be fine, too. Why is this completely normal and accepted for every Traveler except coins in your opinion?
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Having had the great fortune of handling the samples, I have to say I was not really prepared for the size and heft of these. The depth in the text is outstanding and I couldn't be happier with how close to the original design the actual coin came in most areas and surpassed even in others. Thanks AlliedOz for seeing this project through, it's awesome
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I've used this comparison before, but it is worth repeating.
It is like going to a restaurant to meet a girl for a date but instead of finding the real girl, there is an inflatable doll with a note saying, "I was afraid of getting hurt, so you can have dinner with this doll instead. She looks just like me so you will like her the same." If that happened to me, I would be disappointed and maybe a little bit angry.
I remember this one and it still makes me grin!
I think finding a geocoin marked as a geocoin in the description is awesome and the best scenario. I thinking finding a proxy coin marked as a proxy in the description is just fine regardless of why the owner chose to use it. I think finding a proxy in a cache when it's described as the real deal a bit disappointing, but still pretty cool to find a trackable to move along. In the end, all these trackable coins are just that... agents made for traveling. Reviving, restoring or replacing over time is just part of the game and we all get to play it our way.
I have to say, the only thing that really makes me angry is hearing people voice that they will deliberately destroy any proxy for any reason. It's no better than deliberate theft of a coin and in my book worse because they're doing it to be vindictive and ruining something that has potential to add fun and excitement to another cacher's day. And hey, trackables is supposed to be about fun in the end right?
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They do, but not always by design. I once saw a drilled coin in a collection at an event and asked about it. The collection belonged to a novice who had bought it and didn't know why it had a hole drilled in it. I explained why they're sometimes defaced and the collector was stunned. A couple emails later... it turned out the coin had been given away (and quite a few like it) to cachers long ago by the original owner and wasn't even activated. So luckily it wasn't stolen, but taking a moment to talk to the collector taught two lessons. For him, what to watch out for when accepting trades or buying coins and for me, not to make assumptions!
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I guess I'm in the minority, because I do remember, but I never cared if they were trackable. The very first I chased down was not and I still love to trade
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It's okay don't worry. Just go back to the cache where you found it and made your discovery. It should still be listed in the cache inventory. Go to the trackable's individual page and find the owner. Send them a message through their profile and explain what happened. The owner can look on their trackable's page and find the listed number that is physically on the coin and email it back to you so you can correctly log it found and then deposited into the new cache.
edit to say: actually, just go to your Discovered log and you can get to the page even quicker
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Every coin is definitely as unique a production process as the people, stories and events they represent. For myself, I was hopelessly addicted to coins and cost of continuing to buy every single coin I loved was getting a bit expensive. When I figured out I could create my own personal coin and trade them it became much more manageable cost wise. It's not a cheap hobby, but it doesn't have to break your bank either. It can actually save you money if you really enjoy trading so you have to look at it in the long term to really appreciate the difference. I agree with the others that you could definitely benefit by working with someone who has already designed and/or produced coins before. Look around at the coins you love and note just what makes them tick for you. See who designed or worked on them and if they're available to help you. I'm a designer myself, but I happen to prefer a number of other designers out there for certain styles of design and happy to recommend some designers for you based on what you like. Find the right fit for you first. It's an intense experience and often a very exciting and personal journey so take your time and enjoy it all.
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I've heard a number of people ask this question, but I think the best way to approach is to not get in over your head and try to get EVERYTHING out there.
where were you a couple years ago when i started?
ILYK I was the one at the end of your table with the soundtrack of my own voice playing "she will KILL you!" over and over in my head imagining Moun10Girl's reaction! 
... That info does NOT appear in any of the sales efforts either.
) there are 2 duplicate codes out traveling. Keeping track of old coins, new coins, trade coins, etc, I can't imagine a collector keeping one 'spare' proxy die 'somewhere' on standby for a year+ waiting for the first traveler to go MIA.
Joyeux Noël mission
in Trackables
Posted
Add us to the mix please!