CamoCacher

Thanks for the wonderful idea, I might just try that. The cache has been temp disable for now as not winter friendly but I think I could de thaw it at least temporarily.

My first one almost didn't make it becasue one map marked the area as MWA land. Once that was worked out the game was on. My first finder spent 1/2 hour looking for it. y first one has lots of places possible to find it and several decoy piles. I made it somewhat tough on purpose, the same with my second. It has stumped a few. My third I made a easy hide but made it a puzzle. I've had a few compliments on my irst one.

Thanks For now I logged a needs maintance to the cache noting what I found.

I'm new to hiding, only have 3 out there and while I have done maintance on each one of them I have yet to audti the logs. I'll give them a bit more time before I do that.

It's a drug that makes people feel better and it's not illegal, there's nothing wrong with it. Alcohol is another drug some people choose to use that is not illegal and also not addictive (unless your genetically predisposed to alcoholism). Weed is also NOT addictive and some people use it to feel better also, it probably has less side effects than many legal drugs. The point is that senators make arbitrary judgements on what people can and can not use to feel better, and us as individuals tend to make moral judgements based on what the legislators morals are. I prefer to think for myself. Not trying to start a flame war, just saying for ME, I don't feel comfortable making decisions about other peoples lives. Myh brother would STRONGLY disagree with you that Maryjane is not addictive or that it is not a gateway drug to other use of other drugs.

Because that person might just use and get on the road. My brother got caught up in maryjane a few years ago, no big deal right, except he was known to drive while high for one thing. WRONG. He now has a meth problem. And while on meth has driven. He also has paranoid delisions and has bought weapons to protect himself. I was the one that turned him in when I found out what he was doing. Yep he has a difficult time now getting and holding jobs, he struggles daily not to use, yep he almost lost a job, but you know what in the long run he has thanked me. Why because he got help and while he struggles he now knows how to try and deal with things.

No offense but what if that suspected substance isn't drugs but instead something like: anthrax that you just flushed into the local system. In addition to disposing of evidence.

I think this is an intersting thread and I know I need to amend one of my cache listings to put in park hours. But for a few parks most of the ones in my area I have never seen any posted hours. All but one say dusk, the one says 1000pm. On top of that since it gets dark here pretty darn quick in the winter, like around 430pm there is almost no way to cache on a weekday without being out in the dark. Since I generally have my dog with me to get his excercise I guess I've never seen an issue with being in a park after dark even if it says closed at dusk. I think at least in our area most LEO are pretty mild about it if before 1000pm because of the early dark in the winter. Most people are out after dark walking dogs, sledding, skating, etc prior to 1000pm but well after dark. I'd be surprised if most people, to include cachers don't break one law or another. I know I habitually break the leash law. Many of the times we are out ALONE (if anyone is around he is leashed) with no one else around and he likes to run. I let him go. Hes always in eyesight, wears a muzzle so he can't hurt anyone/thing and at LEAST I CLEAN UP HIS POOP. On top of that I usually speed too.

So how do people feel about logging a find in which you see the cache, touch the cache but it is frozen in its spot so you can't get it out to sign the log?

As an avid photographer I just don't see this trully heppening, yes some comanies are discontinuing and that means ordering it instead but to many of us stll us good ole film. *(and yes I also use Digi).

Maybe this is a dumb question and yes I think someone asked it here already but no answer was given..... When a cache is reported missing by a cacher isn't it archieved until replaced? Since the email said the cache was gone wouldn't this be the same with the additional need to be sure it is not on private property?

I'm working on a business card to leave

BS is is very right and not all places mark the fact. I know in MN we have at least one trail which is completely boarded by provate prop and leaving the trail is ad form. Thank goodness the trail is marked with signs.

I'm really only interested in one part of the comments and that is about control of thier pets, as a pet owner of cats, dogs (doberman to be specific) and horses....animals are unpredictable creatures and accidents happen. My dog wears a muzzle whenever out except on his property where he is chained up. The neighbors all know the dog and he is great with kids, cats, adults, males and females but absolutly HATES other dogs and is non to fond of horses. While I trust him completly I don't trust others. A kid throwing rocks at him or something of the sort, or if he felt we were threatened or there were a dog with someone and all bets would be off, no matter how many percautions we take. And the OWNER IS taking a precaution, warning people. When we moved to our current location the first thing we did was go over, introduce oursevles and our dog and warned all the other dog owners about our dogs issues. We did it to be responsible and PREVENT any issues. One neighbor still chooses to let thier dogs roam free, we've been lucky so far but one day my dog will probably get thiers on our property.

This can be hard becuase not everyone prints out the sheets to read and they go from memory. I know until I get a PDA all I have is the coords in the GPS and anything I can rememeber.

I will agree with Team Geoblas on one thing...why this cache since there are 2 other caches in this immediate area? Use waypoint: GCNMMC Use waypoint: GCP2WH Neither of which are the owner of the cache you are taking issue with

Got to agree that many parks, many states, etc have different hours. While in this case it was local cachers who may or may not have known the hours posting hours of the park on the cache page will help us out of towners who may come down to cache. Another thought I had is I know as a kid there were many late nights spent playing tag in the local park in our neighborhood, as well as many other games, not sure if there were hours that it closed or not but I remeber being out till 930-1000 on a summer night with no issues. Yes I know times have changed and so there are more dangers for ALL of us to be aware of if we are out after dark, caching or not.

Using the link Camo provided to the source he got his information from, I discovered something. Use the image viewer and select the area in question. Now be aware this map is a little out dated compared to my gps america select 7 software. It is between essex rd. and an unnamed rd. off of vinson which is also unnamed on the tax map. The click on state land on the bottom under utitlities I think. It will show all state land in red. What do you know, the area in question is red. I printed the image out and have to scan it into a jpeg before I can upload it. You cannot hyperlink for some reason. Whos ignorant now? First off Camo is a She not a he. Second I'm not sure what the color red has to do with any of this as when I click on it all it does it bring it in closer but I don't get any red????? What I do get when I get in is a note that comes up and says: Federally regulated, F-1 Military and Federal. Oh I found the Red on the second tab when I bring up the legend it says red is Urban, the tan brown is AG. White is Parcel, Dark green is o, light green is conservation Maybe the simple solution is to get BOTH the US Govertment permission, since according to taxes records (legal documents) they own it AND the State of Hawii or whoever the current leasee is. There for there is no question. Be mindful according to the site the last real property transfer occured on 12/25/05 For those of us outside the state the issue is that if we happened along this cache and we got caught on the land and it really is and being used by say the NG (which is military) we could get in big trouble.

I'm working on taking business card stock and creating it myself

Let me start by thanking everyone for their opinions on land use in Hawaii, no tresspassing signs in general, but mostly for taking the time to share your widely varied experiences about no tresspassing signs this thread. This topic is indeed a very dear topic to anyone who has done any amount of GeoCaching. This is will be my last post on this subject as I think we have covered it very well. While I leave this thread feeling that I have learned a lot of new things, there are a few strong convictions that I brought with me that have been reinforced by some of the comments (such as the quoted post here) and that is that land issues are very complex and unique in different areas of the planet. If I ever was tempted to jump into a this type of disscussion in regards to an area in which I do not reside or have not done very indepth research, this pretty much took care of that urge. As I have mentioned before, I am a consultant who is dealing with land issues very close to this cache. I don't know a lot about a lot of things but this is one area where I do have inside knowledge. To see a GeoCacher, who resides in Minnesota or even Hawaii, doing an internet search on a tax map and offering it as absolute proof of who controlls the land, it's access, and it's future is, well, comical from where I sit here in Hawaii. Yes, the land is in fact owned by the US goverment but what the tax map doesn't show is that they have leased it or in the case of other parcells (note that this parcell was about 1/20th of land in Barbers Point), to the private sector. This is not special or inside knowledge if you read the papers here. The shortest lease that I am aware of is 99 years. These leases are all different and I admit that I don't know about each and every one of them, but the one constant I can guarantee across the board is that they give up all control of access to the property. While I am glad it branched into areas that are common among all GeoCachers, the origin of this discussion is a direct extention of local beef between two people in Hawaii. Ed Chen continues to deny this (still trying to pull of you in) but his motivation is clear to anyone paying the least bit of attention or has any personal experience with him. Ed is seeking support for his actions on a national level (he refers to you as the silent majority) because has found zero support on a local level for his agressive and rude behaviors to local cachers. Without drawing anymore attention to Ed, this is no way an isolated incident. If you GeoCache in Hawaii, it's a forgone conclusion you have been confronted by him for some reason. It is an insult to continue to suggest that it is unrelated and he carries to ill will towards the owner of the cache in question. If you have doubts of this please do not take my word for it, you can read all about it and draw your own conclusions. Make sure you note the dates in which incident start and the beginning of this thread. Warm Aloha to all, Team GeoBlast Find it comical all you want until I posted that it was IN FACT owned by the US Govertment there are many statements by your fellow hawiians and even the reviewer that he was under the impression it was owned by the State of Hawii which has now come to light to be a falacy in which the story now changes to you know it is owned by the US Govertment and is leased out. Interesting how the story has changed and evolved as other information comes to light - from both sides of the situation. One qoute even seems to suggest clearly it is not US GOV land: Geo blast states : None of us have shown any reservations what so ever in saying that this is no longer US Government Property and the signs are outdated and meaningless as the infastructure.

I did and you all are claiming it does not belong to the US Govertment while athe DPP of Honolulu is VERY CLEAR that it DOES IN FACT belong to the US Govertment. Sorry but I'm more likely to believe a GOV agency before an anonomous poster.

In addition to Naval aviation squadrons, NAS Barbers Point hosts the Coast Guard, which has been part of the station as a Coast Guard Air Facility since 1949. The facility was designated Coast Guard Air Station Barbers Point in 1965 and is the only Coast Guard aviation unit located in the 14th Coast Guard District. Their C-130 Hercules aircraft and H-65 Dolphin helicopters perform search and rescue missions within the central Pacific maritime region. Aircraft also conduct water pollution patrols in the Hawaiian Islands. The Coast Guard Air Station, a tenant of the NAS, remained at Barbers Point, which now serves general aviation on Oahu and hosts units of the Hawaii National Guard. The Navy has retained 1,100 acres for military housing and family support facilities. The 2,150 acres ceded to Hawaii is now the Kalaeloa Community Development District. http://gis.hicentral.com/website/parcelzoning/viewer.htm Which is the City and County of Honolulu Department of Planning and Permiting Searched for the TMK 91013015:0000 provided and this is what I got in about 5 secs. OWNER Owner Information 91013015:0000 Name: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Type: Fee Owner Percent Owner: Assessment Notice Address: > City: State: Country: Zip: PROPERTY INFO Property Information 91013015:0000 Building Value: 0 Building Exempt: 0 Land Value: 24,021,200 Land Exempt: 24,021,200 Land Classification: Improved Residential Unit Number: 0 Acre: 68.632 Square Feet: 0 BUILDING PERMITS: No building permits meeting the criteria you entered were found. Please try again. ZONING INFO: TMK: 9-1-013:015 Historical TMK Sequence: Area (sq ft): 2989610. Area (acres): 68.632 Lot Number: Ohana: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LAND CONTROL CODES Code Type Code Description FLOOD ZONE FIRM ZONE D HEIGHT LIMIT FEDERAL JURISDICTION HISTORIC SITE REGISTER NO LOT RESTRICTIONS NONE SPECIAL DISTRICT NOT IN SPECIAL DISTRICT STATE LAND USE URBAN DISTRICT STREET SETBACK NONE ZONING (LUO) F-1 MILITARY & FEDERAL PRESERVATION ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FACILITIES Facility Code Year Built No. of Floors Total Floor Area No data available. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TMK SEPARATIONS Activity Code Census Tract Census Block No data available. Address List:

While it may only be a NG base I'd not suggest this measn any less. In fact that tells me the signs MUST be new and to be listened too. As a member of the military, for the NG, the consequences can be quite harsh for accessing one of our bases here without proper authority or permission. Since it has now been disclosed that some of this land is actviley being controlled by the miltiary I haved to agree if the signs are new the cache should be archieved.

Okay I was going to stay quiet on this one but..... First off wether the signs are old or new really don't matter, they are there and that is what matters period! Many farms, miltiary instilations, etc in MN and other lands have signs posted No Tresspassing etc, many of these signs are many are not new and you better bet you'd better obey them because if you don't and get caught depending on who owns the land could get you in hot water. Second to that Ft McCoy, WI has a PUBLIC road right through the middle, civilians better stay on that road or other authorized areas (theres a camp ground on some of the land and a "park". There are sings so many feet apart warning the civilans. One reason the area is off limits is major Arty is used on the base and it is dangerous, there are no major road blocks, gates, fence, etc to keep people out of some of the areas. Third some places in MN (one installation which will remain unnamed) which is fenced but has some limited use to the community) has areas on it posted no tresspassing. Wanna know why....still cleaning up ammunition, chemical dumping spots from WAY back when which have been capped, etc. If I saw these sings and there is nothing on the cache page, even if I was a local cacher, but esp since I would be vacationing and caching, I'd stay away and log an SBA when I returned.

Ones man junk is anothers treasure. Also sometimes you never know what you go. At one cache we found this red pastic thingy with a otogonish shaped silver plastic at the top. You could press on the silver a bit and there was a sign that said off and on. We thought what is it. Hung on to it for a bit thinking it might be a broken piece of toy. One day while looking at it we discovered if you turn the silver it plays happy birthday.