SirDonB

I would say that it might have a bit to with how the cache page is written up and what attributes are given. Also, when in doubt, ask the cache owner how they intended it to found... using the pole could be the exact intention. What cache are you referring to so that we may see the cache page and give better guidance.

Thank you for your helpful tips. That pretty much describes how I hunt caches. However, it seems this is actually advice on how to use a pocket. Since I am having the same results as 'the guy who is using their phone wrong', I was hoping to get some tips on using a phone for geocaching. I already know how to use a pocket. In order for you to properly correct my behavior, I should probably describe how I use my phone. Like SirBowan, I use a Casio G'zOne Commando 4G, with the latest Android operating system. The app I use is the free one which shall remain nameless. I open the live map view and select the cache I wish to hunt, read the description, then switch to compass view. Because it has a patch antenna, I hold it flat and level, in my palm. I follow the arrow till I get fairly close, then I stop and let it churn data. After it settles down and gives me a direction & distance, it goes in my pocket. I head over to the indicated location and fire up my geosense. When I fail to find the cache there, I check my phone again, laying it flat and letting it settle. Then I head to the new spot. I lather, rinse, repeat until I either find the cache or it stops being fun. It is not uncommon for me, using this method, to get bounced around like a golf ball in a tile bathroom. Since I am obviously doing it wrong, could you tell me how to do it right? Clan, SirBowen here, I gotta say, I love your sarcasm, reminds me a lot like my own. Your description of how you use your phone to cache sounds exactly how I use mine as well. So I will be watching to see if we can be corrected on the proper use of our phones with geocaching. The only difference I can see between you and I is the app of choice. Some times I leave mine out and glance at it as I pretend to be a rubber ball.

You might find this of interest: El Diablo's Tutorial I will add this to my list of referances. I am very interested to read all of it when I have the time to sit down to do so. And I should have said, searching the web first than applying to the walking stick I am making. I started mine Aug 2013 and am about 90% complete. My 3 year olds is done and he uses it around the house mostly, and my 13 year olds has yet to be started.

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post? What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion. One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended. And no badge is gonna change that. In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee. No I was responding in general to your post. If I was talking to you specificly, I would have quoted you as I am doing now. As to how I got my post from your post, You said the above quote at the begining of your post. Being as I have not seen nor attended a CITO event in my area, the impression I got from your wording was that, that was how they were conducted. And as a personal choice, you chose to leave and not give up the required personal information. So if I understood it wrong, then I stand corrected. After reading your post and responding, I looked up CITO on the site and got some more info on it and how to host an event. I did not see anything in the guidelines that said that your personal info was required, however it did not say that it couldn't be required either. So I see a small grey area that Groundspeak may need to address to clarify for future events. The only way I could see this being allowed is if it was for a raffle where the drawing was on a date other than during the time of the event. If the organizer wanted to track data on how far away people were traveling to attend the event, I could understand signing the log book and requiring your zip code or area code only of your phone number. Sorry if I wasn't clear, you did read the rest of that post, right? - It's the park managers that are requiring this information, as if picking up a plastic bottle will suddenly present a liability issue, while the six year old climbing a tree isn't. The information required in some areas doesn't have anything to do with Groundspeak or the event organizer. The reason I pass on it. Michaelcycle: I've signed many waivers, both in CITO and in climbing/rapelling. I can kinda understand that need. Still, think that lady "picking up" after walking her dog filled one out? We CITO every time we're out. In fact, CJ makes so much with the cans, we're able to buy things for the kids at most events we attend for zip outta our pockets. Say I'm just walking along and as I see a can - pick it up. Hopefully most of you do it. - Now, what's the difference if I'm in a group? I read that post several times and still understood it as it was the event organizer requiring the persional info. So the way it was interperted on my end was different and not clear enough with the wording used. To stay on topic though, if an achievment system were to be implemented and tracked properly, I can see it be benificial, however under the current system it would do more harm than good. The current system tracks your finds/attends and assigns a +1 to them, after so many +1s your get a cookie. To those who that matters to, if you show up to a CITO, sign in, say hi, then fade out and leave, you can log your attended log for the event and get your +1 with no work or further incentive to be more active. Just my opinion.

You are definitely on the right track! Lab Caches are an umbrella cache type for new and different ideas (experiments) that we want to get feedback from the community on. So far, we've seen "Adventures" at various Mega Events and soon, personal geocaches through I <3 Geocaching. "31 Days of Geocaching" was a fun way to get people to try a different aspect of the current game - streaking. It can be fun to challenge ourselves and HQ wanted to see who was up for trying something new, last August. These wouldn't have fallen under the Lab Cache umbrella. Does this make sense? So in other words, a lab cache is like an abstarct container as apposed to the physical containers we associate with geocaching. So the confusion comes in the wording and using cache in the name when used on the site given the auto perception. Let us not forget that cache has more meanings outside the box of geocaching. Cache: noun 1. a hiding place, especially one in the ground, for ammunition, food, treasures, etc.: She hid her jewelry in a little cache in the cellar. 2. anything so hidden: The enemy never found our cache of food. 3. Alaska and Northern Canada. a small shed elevated on poles above the reach of animals and used for storing food, equipment, etc. verb (used with object), cached, cach·ing. 4. to put in a cache; conceal; hide. Taken from "http://dictionary.reference.com/" There is a technology meaning to it as well that was not covered in the above definition... Cache (computing), a collection of data duplicating original values stored elsewhere on a computer CPU cache, a small area of fast memory used by the central processing unit Disk buffer, the small amount of buffer memory present on a hard drive Page cache, the cache of disk pages kept by the operating systems, stored in unused main memory Web cache, a mechanism for the temporary storage of web documents to increase performance DNS cache, a server in the domain name system which stores queried results for a period of time P2P caching, a technique used to reduce bandwidth costs for content on peer-to-peer networks Database caching, a mechanism used to cache database content in multi-tier applications InterSystems Caché, an object / relational database Taken from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cache" So depending on your point of view, your definition of a lab cache can vary from person to person. And more so when one starts to speculate what another means or has in mind. I think Jayme H has done an outstanding job to try and get us to understand what Groundspeak means and defines as a lab cache, with many of us missing the mark becasuse we are focused on the negative percieved outcome of the "I <3 Geocaching" experiment. If we could think outside of our small narrow minded boxes, I think there may be a little less confussion over these lab caches.

pssst, its only a flesh wound...

Just a though and question arose from the last post... I know I read that a dedicated thread would be created to allow those who created or found a lab cache to share their thoughts, however once the code is entered, the cache is automaticly archived. Now my question is this, once the cache is archived, can we post up the link we shared with the finder so other may follow it and see what we created? Or once archived, is it no longer accessable?

I wholeheartedly agree that I do not need an achievement offer to attend or host CITO's. My family is planning on setting up a few of them after my Camp CITO weekend concludes in April. As avid campers and hikers, our family has always practice CITO, way before we were geocachers and had a name to put on it. Some discussions have been going around in my area about how we can spread the message to more people to get involved in CITO's. I was just thinking that if Groundspeak were to back an achievement in regards to this, it may be able to spread to more people and more areas faster than in just a more localized manner. I appreciate your thoughts! Thanks! The only way I see this having the intended effect is if the achievments were looked at and counted like community service hours. In this way it would encurrage people to stay longer and help with the cleanup. However, there would be a need for a back check system so that a person could not say that they were there for 12hours when the event was only 8 hours long and they were there for only 3 hours. The only way I see this happening is addind special permissions to the event page where the event host can verify the hours a person was there with the person being able to input their time into their attended log. But then this also requires the host of the event to have a time sheet where everyone signs in and out thier times. I could see this working, but being very complex and taxing on the event host. The end result could be less CITO events.

If you're talking to me, nope. I didn't say that. How did you get that out of my post? What I'm getting at is, in my area, more would attend CITOs if there wasn't so much personal intrusion. One, close by in another State, had over two dozen sign up. Once they found out (like me) that personal info had to be given out, five attended. And no badge is gonna change that. In other areas, parks are happy for the help and don't care who you are. You're just like all the others walking around playing frisbee. No I was responding in general to your post. If I was talking to you specificly, I would have quoted you as I am doing now. As to how I got my post from your post, You said the above quote at the begining of your post. Being as I have not seen nor attended a CITO event in my area, the impression I got from your wording was that, that was how they were conducted. And as a personal choice, you chose to leave and not give up the required personal information. So if I understood it wrong, then I stand corrected. After reading your post and responding, I looked up CITO on the site and got some more info on it and how to host an event. I did not see anything in the guidelines that said that your personal info was required, however it did not say that it couldn't be required either. So I see a small grey area that Groundspeak may need to address to clarify for future events. The only way I could see this being allowed is if it was for a raffle where the drawing was on a date other than during the time of the event. If the organizer wanted to track data on how far away people were traveling to attend the event, I could understand signing the log book and requiring your zip code or area code only of your phone number.

I am a cache owner myself, and I am not in your targeted group. I feel that as a newer cacher in my area, going to events and meeting other people that share the hobby is extremely important. I have made a few friends that I cache with now were I would be out on my own hoping to run into some one, and my area has a very heathy cache saturation and community. If you host an event, try to do it on a day, time, and place that is convienent for the majority of the people in your area. My biggest problem is that most events held close enough that I could attend are on days and times that I am working. It is very fustrating that I can not attend and event and want to. Also, I agree with if you are looking to not only increase the number of caches to find in your area, but the number of people to go out and find them, I would look towards groups that are simular like the mentioned Scouting groups, orienteering, hiking associations, etc. I would also look to see if you have any groups that do histroric preservation, land preservation etc. They may be interested in the hobby as well as a way to bring people to areas they want to highlight in a non commercial way.

I am in the process of making my own. I made one for my 3 year old already. And will be making one for my 13 year old who caches with me. All I have done so far is pick out a stick that was fairly straight or straight enough, trimmed it to the hight I wanted, sanded it smooth, stained it, about the proper hight for the hand I wrapped it in 550 cord and for my 3 year olds, put a rubber cap on the bottom. Mine, I did much of the same to mine as for my 3 year olds, except I engraved my family crest near the top of it as well as carved out a spot for the walking stick trackable medallion I purchased. I still have a but more to finish up on it before it is ready to go out with me. For my 13 year olds, I have not fully decided what we are gonna do with his, but I will get working on it once spring arrives. For the larger sticks, I am contimplating cutting them and adding a large screw so they can be broke down for traveling. All my know how on this has come from searching the web, mainly via Google, on how to make a walking stick. I found a few good sites and forums that I combed for some info and ideas. If I can locate some of the sites I used, I will post them here for your referance as well.

I think what was meant that lab caches would eventually be more built into the profile stats is that as Jayme H stated a number of posts ago, the current stats system and the lab cache system are on 2 different systems. So when the current stats system is brought over and intergrated with the newer system that lab caches were created on, then it will be possible to show lab caches in the stats as we are complaining that they should be now. The problem is that most people dont understand that it will take time to make it so, and they expect that the problems with the intergration should already be solved and want it NOW with out having to wait.

Will there be a limited number minted for sale beyond the preorder or is the minting limited to the preorder? I didnt see a listing on your website for any of these ones.

I would guess because there is something resembling a tracking code engraved on said item and the OP wants to know if it is a trackable item or not. To be able to clarify, I have requested a pic of said item. Someone may be able to reconize the item from a pic rather than a description.

So you're saying that to host a CITO event, I must require everyone to give up their address and phone number and if I want to attend one, I must give up the same info???

So you do think there is a group of otherwise law and guideline-abiding geocachers out there just chomping at the bit to get out and do some vandalism. Interesting. I don't and I continue to think that's over-reacting to the whole thing. Time will tell of course, and if the sky falls at the end of Feb, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and you were right. If the sky doesn't fall...? Like you I try to see the best people have to offer, yet not putting past them the worst they can do as well. I have seen that the person you least suspect to do something wrong is often the one that will. With the group I work with, it has been most often the quitest one that has the worst temper and foulest mouth, yet till provoked, the impression they give you would never guess it in a million years. This is why I never put anything past anyone. We all have that rebel in us that wants to get out and break the rules. It just depends on when and who lets that rebel out. So is it possible that law/guideline abidine cachers could go ape when the rules are relaxed? absolutly, I have no doubt that some will do it. I hope that they dont, but I acknowldge that the possibility does exist.

I opted out of the harassment training at work. I already know how to harass people, and I'm surprised people need training to learn how to do it. Agreed, sarcasm and all... I work in an envorment were the staff is 98% women, no amount of training will help me either way, if its my turn, I will be accused. I just try to keep my integrity so that is the one thing that can not be questioned or at least when it is, I am not the one that is wrong.

If you have not seen it, there is some CITO stuff here: http://shop.geocaching.com/default/gear/cito in the geocahing store. I am sure a quick search may give you a site with more of what you are suggesting. Or if you have the backing, you can create coins and sell them yourself. As to the concept, I do not need to have an achivement to inspire me to attend or host a CITO event, would it be nice, yes, but not needed in my case. I have been researching hosting an event, CITO or other, local areas where I could hold said event, etc for some time now. The achievments would do nothing but be icing on the cake so to speak. At least for me. They may do better to inspire those others that, that sort of thing will motivate. So I could see them being a good thing, but for me personally, its a give or take type of thing. Its a good thought, and has the potential to be a good postitive one.

Unfortunately, I <3 Geocaching won't quite work like that. Every Premium Member account will be able to create a Lab Cache. The Lab Cache will be tied to your account's username, so you won't be able to give it to your neighbor. What a sweet idea though...you are nice person. Maybe we will look into this concept more in the future. You could conspire with your neighbor and hide one for one daughter and let her hide one for the other daughter. Yeah, thought of that. But if one cache is tied to my username and the other to their Mom's, I'd think the other might question, "why Mom picked her". Not quite teens, you know how kids are... I think that the "tied to username" bit is more for the system so that you can't create 2+ lab caches. And given the limit, if they know that MOM made both for them to find with your help since she could only create one from her account, then I think it should be fine with the kids. I would hope the kids would be understanding that for Feb lab caches are 1 PM account, 1 lab cache only, no exceptions. You thinking about offering to help that mom to create a special lab cache so both her daugters can have one to find speaks volumes about your charactor.

I just picked this one up for $35 off ebay (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=5276727) If I can remember what I paid for some of the others, I will post up some prices. I usually try to by in lots to keep cost down. This thread makes me wonder if I have picked up any of value. Maybe someone here can reconize any of them (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=4920393) on my profile. I have managed to get a few older coins that I know are no longer made. Edit for typo

how in the world do you place these lab caches with out them going on the geocaching page and would you share the link you place them like any other cache... exception is they do not show up on the map and are a private listing that only the person you give the HTML link to will be able to view the cache page. At least this is my understanding.

For a puzzle cache, I would say that the Terrain rating should reflect the terrain to where the cache is hidden and the Difficulty rating should reflect how difficult is it to solve the puzzle and get the final coords.

Do you have any pics of said container? a visual will help a lot more than a description.

Some phones, sure. I have the new Ipod 5, and the camera on it works very very well. And if you get the right apps, you can add effects in, use focus blur-stuff, and lots more. So, yes, the expensive fancy cameras are better (of course), but phones aren't always that bad. The pictures I took in my post above were taken with a Nikon Coolpix. It wasn't a big camera you could change the lens on, like lots of you guys seem to be talking about, but it was light, portable, and easy to use, so I liked it. I honestly think my phones's camera is better though. That's just me. Yes, I had to laugh when I realized my Commando 4G phone had a camera with a higher MP rating than my Kodak. Though I can not tell the difference between the 2 camera when looking a simular photos taken by each, I am usually happier with the ones taken with the Kodak a bit more for some reason. Maybe I just think that picture taking should be done with a camera and not a phone, who knows. I will get some pics posted up as soon as I can. I just dont have any from geocaching adventures.

I could also use some tips on how to use my Commando 4G to properly geocache since I had a DNF yesterday while out in a wooded area caching. It would put me withing 2ft of GZ, then bounce to 21ft away, take me back to the same spot but be 6ft away, then bounce in a different dirction again. Clearly I am not using my phone in the proper way intended for the purpose of geocahing. Please tell me what I am doing wrong and how to correct it.