SirDonB

If you're mentioning signature items then you might also explain about pathtags too because they have a different sort of tracking number on them and new cachers often try to log them using the geocaching.com site... and then wonder why they can't... MrsB Yes, being as I have collected a few pathtags already, they are to be included under sig items.

HA! I suppose if someone dug a hole in the snow to place the cache, that might be the case. But what if you put it in a natural snow depression and pile the snow on top? What if you place it, and the snow drifts in on top? I see you see what I did there, LOL... guess that makes a lot of caches on the ground covered in snow illegal then, includeing one of mine that I wont be able to check on till enough snow melts to get to it.

Thinking about it, since the rules now say there can't be a requirement to sign a log book, I guess anyone can place an event cache even if they don't plan on being there. Probably needs a split off thread, but interesting point brought up there. Yes this is interesting, but if I am going to take the time to create an event, I am going to take the time to be at THAT event. My name is not on it for no reason what so ever. It would take a family emergency to keep me from an event I plan. But I guess there are people who will do it just to bump their numbers.

I dont usually cache in the snow, but I have had some decent enough days that I have found a few this winter so far. Besides I thought that caches in theburriedsnow were not allowed as per the rules.

I get it becasue I am planning on doing something simular myself, only differance is that all parts of mine will be public. I have debated wether I want to publish the final bonus to the series first leaving some mystery to the rest, but I doubt it would be published since it would not be able to be solved right away. Either way that's the one of the series to start at with creating them all. Same with yours, I would get the coords to where you want to hide the unpublished bonus cache and published bonus (if you make one) then work your series backwards from there.

Seeing this post, and knowing about this series to come, makes me wish I lived in your area to search for it and all aspects of it including the unlisted bonus cache. The allure for me of geocaching is finding that which is hidden or unknown. The smilely is just a way to mark the map for the ones I have found, the counter just lets me know how many I have found so far. I don't know if you want to hint in a cryptic way about the bonus cache or not, again that is your choice to do or not. Kind of like the caches lead into one another like parts of a story about a hidden treasure that does not tell you the clues or how to put them together, just that they are there and all around. Kinda like the movie National Treasure or The Da Vinci Code if you like. Based off your previous posts, I will guess not.

You are right there, there is power in that smilely... it is the driving force for the vast majority of caches out there. It sounds to me like you may have solved your problem already, however, if you did want to make it public, is there a place or way you can put it on your property so the extra trafic would not be so much of a bother or concern? It seems like a waste to me that if you are going to put so much time and effort into a spectacular bonus cache, to not share it with the public. But yes, what you do on your property outside of the GC relm, is your choice. The Geocaching rules only apply to what gets listed on the site, so if you decide later to list it on this site, is should conform to the rules they have here or it will lead to problems... Other places may allow different things as to cache type, rules, etc. So you may be able to cross list them with the secret bonus cache being listed on another site, and the main series being on both, if you wish to do it that way. Just my thoughts

That and the cache unmolested by the hands of caches in its orignal hidden state as intended by the hider. I am also on board with NO to the digital souvenir, how ever, I will leave a FTF prize in my caches as I am tring to play as it once was back before geocaching could walk.

I myself an planning an in depth series in my area with a double bonus cache. However, I am planning on having everything planned out, made, and ready to go prior to its release, to include how to solve the bonus cache. I have a few people that I know that I will beta test before I take it to the field for placement. Which leads to another problem and issue in and of itself, where to place each cache and permission to do so. Again, all of which will be solved before any part of it hits the field. I am thinking the double bonus will work like this, gather all the clues and put them together, find bouns cache one, in bonus cache one, is a "key" that when you use it, it leads to bonus cache 2. It will be possible to solve bonus cache 2 without the key, but will be more difficult to do. Both bonus caches would use the exact same clues, just placed in a different order from one another. Again just a thought. Back to topic: As to this idea of using an archived listing for the bonus cache, I am against it on the sole purpose that once a cache page is archived, that location is opened up for anyone. If you place your bonus cache there then archive the page, someone else may come along see your container, take it, list that spot for their own and now you are leading people to someone elses cache when you left your bonus cache there last, now you are unaware of the change till people start to complain and you get a bad rap for it. If you are going to do a bonus cache, list it as a mystery cache type and put on the page that it is a bonus cache for xyz series and heres what you need to do to solve it.

This much I agree with you on. No matter what, with or without education, if someone does not want to do something, they will not do it. However, the chance for an occurance of bad logging will be lessened if more people know what to do from the start. True, it may never be fully prevented, but that should not deture from trying.

As you have so diligently pointed out, I have a low cache count, this is true. I do not get the chance to cache as much as I would like to. However, I do not feel that, that in anyway will hinder me. So long as I gather all the facts, comments, conserns, etc. around the subject that I can before speaking in front of a group, then I stand at no disadvantage. From your post, you seem like the type of person that only will listen to those whom you see as your superior or have, in your oppinion, sufficiant credability. You are right about one thing, I will move forward regardless of what you say or think. As to the other class ideas I mentioned, I may not get around to them for months or years to come, even if I create the class well before then. As to the trackable class, I have already spoke with a few notable veteran cachers in my area, and I have their backing on this particular class on trackables. I already feel alienated with in this hobby as most events take place on a day and time that I am not able to attend as well as I have yet to meet any cacher at any cache that I have found thus far. Place on top of that I mostly cache in the middle of the night due to my work schedual, and yea I am pretty alienated as it is. I would like to know how you can see a commercial venture in anything I said? I have not once thought of making any kind of money off any of this. So where do you get that I am trying to do some kind of side commercial venture here? Since you decided to go there, I spent 6 years in the US Military. During that time, I have taught various groups of people on subjects I had little or no knowledge on. I have, at times, been given minutes to create a course to teach. So when you ask about my credibility, I think I am more than covered there. If you would rather listen to that person next to you that has 1500 caches found but has only been caching for less than 6 months, then go for it since you see a high cache count as being credible. I would rather listen to the person that did the research and adiquitly presented the info regardless of cache count. Someone taking the time to research and listing their resources is more credible than the person with a high cache count that only speaks their oppinion and tries to pass it on as fact with no way to check what they say. But again this is only my oppinion and subject for you to throw your nose up at if you wish.

yes, after the lab cache is created, you will have a URL link for that lab. You copy the URL and send it to the person intended. You can write it down on a piece of paper, text it to them, email, however you like. I forget where on the page you will have the URL to give out, but it is there somewhere.

you mean I am part of a secret society and not supposed to tell others what I am doing? Guess I should be kicked out and stoned to death then... Since I have started, I educate people every chance I get, when asked. Some have heard of it, others stay and ask more questions. Each time I talk to someone, I stop my search, engage the person, and once they leave, I resume my search. I can not tell you how many people I have spoken to about geocaching. I just go out caching, explain when I need to, and cache on... but if I had to guess, I would say maybe about 100 or so to this point including Law Enforcement Officers at all levels of enforcement from State down to Security.

We dont seem to have this problem in my area, or at least as far as I can tell... what ever cache gets put out there gets left in place. Once in a while, one will be muggled, but in general caches live a long happy life around my part of the world.

Certainly a good suggestion, but I think another big reason for trackables getting lost is muggles finding the cache. The solutions to that problem are stealth, hiding as well or better than found, and avoiding putting trackables in caches that might be easily muggled. Fully understood and thought of... I will be covering those topics and more in other "lessons" I will eventually put together. I am hoping to make the classes a regular event a few times a year for each. But more on that later, first things first, the piolt run of the trackables class. The problem with stealth, at least for me, is that the more stealthy I try to be the more I draw attention to myself. This is why I will normally cache at night after my shift is over. But again, discussion for another thread another time. I do like that last suggestion though, very good point. But depending on how this class goes and the feedback I get, I am looking to do a class on Finding caches, Hiding caches, TOTT, Containers, etc. The Hiding caches class will touch on containers, but given the spectrum, I feel that could be an entire class on its own. Also depending on the amount of material to cover, I may break the Geocoins and Travel Bugs into their own seperate classes. But it all hinges on how this first class goes.

You may want to Google for Educaching. While most of what I have seen has to do with using Travel Bugs in the classroom, there may be some info on TB handling. Skye. Thank you, I have done so and didnt really find much of anything on trackables. I found links to where I can buy the book, and I did find one link that lead me to a viewable PDF flash file with 2 pages about trackables. I did manage to print those, thought it wasnt the easiest most direct way to print them. As is proper, I will make sure I have a list of all sources used for referance, in case anyone wants to look up the info and read in greater detail. At this point I think I have a good base of info to work with. What I would like to hear now is what people see as areas of trackable ettiquitte that should be taught in a class enviorment. For example: Problem: trackables get stolen or disappear Likey cause(s) could be new cacher that doesn't know, veteran cacher that missplaced the trackable, cacher with sticky fingers, cacher that likes that trackable design and doesnt want to let it go, etc. Solution(s) to the problem: Events in your local area specificly to educate that community about trackables. So lets hear your opinions and try and make the best class possible. I want to hear from you, the owners and movers of trackables to see what you think are the areas to be taught.

I agree with you, a flashlight should be something that you carry no matter what. I got one of eBay for cheap that has a red laser pointer with a UV light and regular led flash light all in one. Bring on the UV caches.

This thread has given me an idea or 2 and confirmed a few others I have had for a night time cache in my area. Most of the ones that are "night caches" tend to me 1/1 parking lot caches...

I agree, I see nothing wrong with revisiting a found cache, but as said, write a note instead of a found it log. I will revisit caches mostly to drop off a TB/Coin for someone else to find if I have not found a cache of suitable size to place it in, in my travels. Once in a while, if I notice that a trackable has been sitting in one of my favorite drop caches for a while, I will go and pick it up to move it. But I generally only do this if it has been a month or more since it was dropped or found last. And as was also said, only grab them if you can move them on in a reasonable amount of time. I have heard some say within 2 weeks is acceptable, but use your own judgement.

I dont see, like others, how restricting a trackable to a PMO cache will solve the problem. My personal opinion is that events need to be held with a trackable specific class as part of the event to teach cachers about trackables and proper etiquitte, handleing, etc. In fact, I am in proccess of gathering info to put together such a class and hold such an event in my area. I will be more than happy to provide anyone the files who would like a copy once I have created the class. The best solution is not the easy one, it is the one that will take time and effort, teach those who are willing to listen about trackables. Eventually, though it may not go away completly, it will extend the life of our beloved trackables we send out into the wild. Any questions about the class, feel free to email me through my profile.

What if they sign simultaneously? Is the person who finishes his signature first the FTF? That would give an unfair advantage to those with short user names. Unless there are multiple log books, I dont see that being much of a problem. But I guess it could be if you where at a Mega event or other event with a bunch of geocachers at.

By who's first to log an "attended" log online for that event in the form of a 500 word min essay on why they started geocaching and why they are attending the event while drinking a glass of water singing their favorite song. FTF honors may take a while to give out, but you will know who follows the rules. LOL But seriously, The one event I got to attend AND meet some area cachers had a log book to sign that I signed. The other I was allowed to keep my attended log because I attempted to show up after work for the event, but noone was left at the location. I was able to verify I was on location by obtaining the resterants section number where the group was at.

Raffling off FTF? I've heard some silly things involving geocaching but that comes close to taking the cake. Anyway this got me to thinking, what if there are 20 people there before the event to help set up? When the clock strikes the event time they are there. Do they share FTF? part of me would say yes, but part of me would say, who's first to log their name in the log book? I see it this way, If I go after a cache, and get there the same time as another group, if that group finds it before me, they get to log it before me even though I was first on location. In that case, I would not complain about not being FTF, I would be happy to log STF and get the smilely. Now if they were to offer the FTF prize cuz I was on location first, that would be ubber cool of them, but not expected. I do not nessecerly agree with the whole group FTF deal either, did the group all spot it, retieve it from its hiding spot at the same time? Probally not, just my opinion, for what its worth. So without having cameras watching every square inch of the event area, there is no way to tell exactly who arrived first except via the log book by whos name is first in the list. However for an event, I would not award FTF or FTA anyway, as it is an event, not a race with an award at the end. If you gonna do that, why not take it a step further and see whos first to park, first to get out of their vehicle, etc. The question becomes when is enough, enough? I have no problem acknowledging the FTF game with in geocaching, but can we leave events out of it? They are suppose to be a social gathering, not a container to be found even though like a cache, an event has a log book to sign.

I am glad to have followed the curious cat into this thread... You all have taught me something. I thought that once you had the coin in hand, you were to activate it. I was unaware of the loss in value from unactivated to activated. As I gather more coins for my horde, I will have to keep this in mind. Is there anyway or anywhere that someone can research the value of a particular coin or set of coins? I have collected many different cards over the years and complete sets were always worth a little more than all but a few cards of that set sold seperatly. Seeing as there are buyers, sellers, and collectors for almost anything, one would logicly conclude that geocoins are no different and that there should be somewhere to find a listing of coins and their average market value, both activated and not.

I have already grabbed and printed everything I could find from the help center and the geocoin and travel bug FAQ pages... Does anyone know of any other info on trackables that I can pull from? I will look at wiki to see if there happens to be anything at that source, but I am doubting it to have anything new.