BigLarry

Some map sets, like Topo and MetroGuide, aren't usable for autorouting on the GPSr, so that could be greyed out if you only have those map segments (or no map segments) selected for download. You'll need to have that box checked for autorouting information to be sent to your GPSr. Select a different map set to download with Autorouting capability, like City Select or City Navigator.

It can be bought on Amazon.com, among other places. A bit over $130 generally. If you're going to use in the car, you may want to save $$ and get the car mount and power kit at the same time with the Auto Nav Kit. I find the CN8 has slightly better descriptions of freeway intersection signs and whatnot than the older CitySelect or MetroGuide. The Points of Interest and other information seems to still be out of date. Maybe 90-95% of it is right and current, enough to be very useful but occasionally annoying. CN8 fits the whole US on 2 GB. With the "NT" version, compression fits it on 1GB, but it's approved for the 60CSx and other "x" versions as far as I know.

I have the Quest for the car and the 60CSx for geocaching and the trail. The Quest with voice prompts is much better for road. It's software and buttons are more road oriented too. The Quest has 128 MB of memory and can get pretty much all of CA roads. You can change the maps and I just updated with City Navigator v8. The older receiver in the Quest has been intermittent in some thick foilage in Santa Cruz, and the tall buildings of SF right down town. But this problem was very rare, and generally I've had very good reception. The 60CSx would offer better reception, but is known to have problems with late beeps due to software it seems. I had a friend you used the 60CSx in his car on vacation and loved it. But he never got spoiled by a voice unit.

Topo has no codes and you can load to any of your GPS units at will. The City Navigator and City Select can be unlocked for two GPSr. So as long as you haven't used the second unlock code yet, you're fine with no extra software purchase. (Note City Navigator v8 is the current recommendation for the 60CSx, a $75 upgrade if you haven't bought the City Select recently.) And the 60CSx price isn't that bad right now. Around $359 on Amazon, down to $309 with rebate! Why not two GPS units? Makes sense to me.

Oh, another thing. You can only see one map set at once on the GPSr, for any Garmin product. (There's some custom map making that do transperent overlays, but I think it'd be too cluttered.) So I use the road map (City Navigaator v8) when driving to find a trail head. Then for biking/walking on a trail I flip to Garmin's Topo and can navigate remote areas by comparing lakes, peaks, ridges, etc. For best navigation, before biking I find a good contour map of the park off the web. On the computer screen at home, I compare the maps and put waypoints at all the trail intersections, almost always within 100' if you're carefull at comparing all the topo features and altitude, etc. I then make a route between the points. It helps greatly from getting lost in remote areas. These days, places like MotionBased.com have tracks of lots of places made by others if you look in their TrailNetwork Digest from which you can make waypoints. To switch between Topo and Road on the 60CSx, the easiest way from the Map screen: Hit Menu - Setup Map - OK Hit Menu - then "Show US Topo" and "Hide City Navigator" for showing Topo or Hit Menu - then "Show City Navigator" and "Hide US Topo" for City Navigator. Actualy, if both Topo and City Navigator are active, City Navigator takes preference. So you could just leave Topo active and only toggle City Navigator on and off. Also note the menu is confusing as to the current state of maps being active. "Show US Topo" means it's hidden or deactivated now. "Hide US Topo" means it's currently being shown or active. The command describes an action to reverse the current state.

I've found on various GPSr from Garmin that the two caculated routes, computer and GPSr, are near identical if from the same point using the same source maps. But as El Diablo says, the best thing about a GPSr, is that it can automatically recalculate a route on the fly as you miss a turn, or want to deviate for gas or a burger or whatever. Following a pre-planned route is like printing out directions from MapQuest - it's not nearly as flexible. As mentioned by El Diablo, I just make sure my destinations are made into waypoints and always just do a "GoTo". GPSr units like my Garmin Quest always route following the roads by default, and units like my Garmin 60CSx will ask to follow roads or go "off-road". (There's a setup option to ask this.) Note Off road is straight line to a point, rather than followng roads. It's good for flying, hiking, or biking across country.

Easy Answer: You need to load both map types in the same down load. Each down load completely erases the previous stored map set. In MapSource on the computer, select the Topo maps you want, switch the maps to City Select and keep selecting more maps. In the Maps tab, you'll then see maps of both types. You can sort by map type by hitting the "Area" column button. Be sure the "Include route calculation data button is selected if that's what you want. Route calculation is only available on the City Select maps.

Call Garmin. If it's recently out of warranty, they may repair it for free. Garmin is liberal with providing excellent service. If you're far out of warranty, Garmin has a fixed price repair for a like-new reconditioning. See here. It's $150 for the VistaC, but it's still cheaper than buying a new unit. I did it for my Vista and fixed a number of small joystick and button wear and battery connection issues and also got all the dings and scratches out.

I use the eTrex Vista on my bike handlebars and it works fairly well, only occasinally loosing signal briefly - especially on the north face of steep hills with lots of big trees. I'm surprised it didn't do better for you out in the open on Lake Erie. Are you in the woods near Lake Erie? I also carry a 60 CSx, and it works very well as many note, never loosing signal. To answer your question: The old 60CS with the helix antennae and older receiver did perform a little better than the eTrex patch antennae. But the new 60CSx that added the new SiRFIII recevier is like a quantum jump in performance. The SiRFIII is also used on Garmin's Edge bike computers with patch antenaes, and also does very well in reception. So the new SiRFIII receiver makes most all of the difference. Look for that for good reception.

I asked exactly this of the Garmin Techs, and here's their reply. (Unfortunately, it's a "reinstall". No simple method). ----------------------------------- Thank you for contacting Garmin. Try this workaround: -Uninstall US TOPO from the Add/Remove in the Control Panel. -Shutdown the computer for 30 seconds or longer. -Copy ENTIRE contents of all the TOPO CD-ROM's to the hard drive to a NEW FOLDER you create. -Take out CD-ROM from computer. -Run the Setup.exe from the NEW FOLDER. -Download and install the latest version of MapSource from the website (and do the TOPO basemap patch download, too): http://www.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=209 -Run MapSource.

Make sure your "Lock to Road" option (or something like that) is not selected.

Double Post - needs removal

I don't think the 60CSx has 3-axis. From page 50 of the GPSMap60CSx manual: "The accuracy of the electronic compass is adversely affected if the unit is not held level or you are near objects that generate magnetic fields, such as cars or buildings."

Nice Job byrdog!! I know others who have tried this but failed from standard problems - bad links, confusing instructions, too much effort, .... The maps that come out look great. And another advantage is that you can add your own trails from your tracks. And the maps you get may be more accurate than the very old and outdated Topo maps from Garmin and National Geographic. One issue I have is that the extra detail looks great on a computer screen, but that it may be too cluttered on a GPS. I've found the sparser detail of Garmin's maps are just right to view on my small GSP screen (eTrex Vista and 60CSx). Less detail saves on memory. And I've never had problems finding my way using Garmin's courser maps. I can use Garmin's maps to place a new waypoint within 100', by comparing to an official PDF map and matching contours, lakes, peaks,.... Is there a way to reduce the amount of detail? I use National Geographic when I want something that pretty, but this seems even better. The bigget issue for me is that National Geographic Topo maps are only $80, and save a lot of work.

Thanks for the prompt reply. it is strange that Garmin would not put this feature in TOPO USA. Using Mapsource Topo extensively, I'd say it would be a poor candidate for auto routing. The roads and trails look like they were poorly and very incompltely mapped 30 years ago. It has only the major city steets, a few of the small streets (without names), and only 1/3 to 1/2 of the fire roads and trails in remote areas, often not the common ones or direct ones. And some roads are really trails and vice-versa. It's mostly good for mapping with geographic featues and contours. The roads and trails are weak and like the other geographic features, are only there as a guide. It could be Canada has a better and more current map data source than the US.

I posted why I wanted an eTrex with a better receiver for my use. Not why the Vista is the perfect unit for everyone. Obviously, Garmin sells a lot of very different units to a lot of people for their purpose, each customized to their need, and a poor fit outside that application. Those not doing All Mountain biking won't have my issues. I never implied they would. Actually, it wasn't just the antenna on my friend's 60CSx that cracked. Two buttons also cracked off my 60CSx while it was wrapped in my backpack. My friend's 60CSx also has horrible battery bounce with power off from the intense vibrations on the handlebars. He had to stop and turn it back on every few minutes. Between that and the cracked antennae is why I decided to carry mine wrapped softly in the back pack rather than on the bars where I can use it, like I do with my Vista. You mention battery cover and post mounts being more rugged. That may be true, but that wasn't an issue in my 3 years with the Vista. It held tight on the handlebars with many G forces of going over rock gardens and drops. The only time it came off the bars (at the bar clip, not the internal posts you mention) was when my knee smashed into the Vista as I also was going over the bars. In spite of your engineering detail, my friend found the 60CSx has much worse battery bounce causing power off than the Vista from handlebar vibration. And in spite of the stronger posts, the 60CSx has fell off the mount just as easily or more than my Vista, which is why the antenae broke, not from smashing into a tree. The battery cover and tie-in mounts were never an issue in either case. They're strong on both the Vista and the 60CSx. If anyone would see a strength problem there, I think I would have already. You also mention the waterproofing not as good on the Vista. The rubber sides on my Vista did crack, loosen, and wear off after a couple years of hard use. I got the whole unit refurbished about a year ago, along with removal of the nick on the screen. Still working great since. I don't use it for boating and worry about that water proof standard. But I use the Vista frequently in the rain and riding through streams. Never had an issue with water. Don't know why, but it's true. Actually, rather than continue this argument, I'd like to hear more about getting a nice SiRF receiver in an eTrex sort of GPSr for my use, the original intent of this thread. I'll leave you with a picture of my friend Dan on his bike last month, with the new Vista on the bars (barely visible past the hand). For more pictures and videos of our rides, see this web site of another friend.

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds. My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx. Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched. I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line. If you'd read my post, you may have seen I indeed own BOTH an eTrex Vista AND a GPSMap60CSx, and I use BOTH at the same time in my riding: my Vista on the handlebars and the 60CSx wrapped up in soft towels in the back pack to protect it better. My friend has also owned BOTH the 60CS AND the eTrex VistaCx, and has used them both on the handlebars at different times. So we are NOT "making such silly statements about a product that we do not own". I accurately reported our actual experience in the last three months on BOTH units THAT WE BOTH OWN. We have BOTH found that the 60CSx, although built strong and built well, is substantially less rugged than the seemingly bulletproof Vista, and the 60CSx broke in short order under our harsh biking application. The 60CSx also had much more problems with power off from battery bounce and other issues I didn't report in the post before. Also note the 60CSx is one of the few GPSr that Garmin doesn't rate at 6G dynamics like the others. My friend broke his antennae TWICE in two months, as it sticks out and breaks easily when dropped or tossed as happens more frequently and perhaps more harshly for us bikers than normal people walking around. But it wasn't a freak accident. By comparison, the Vista has lasted 3 years for me exposed on the handlebars, and months now for my friend in the same situation with it flying off the bars perhaps 100 times (no exageration unfortunately). The Vista also survived just fine falling off the top of my car and bouncing down the road (twice stupidly), which is more likely to happen to geocachers. The Vista also survived when I dropped it 10 feet face down on to a rock, with only a little nick on the glass face. Mountain biking is a rough application for GPSr's, but a good test bed for the worst ruggedness requirements. The Vista indeed held up to the test. If you're in a car or walking around geocaching, it's a different situation. I agree, our use of the GPS is very harsh, and beyond the normal limits of geocaching use, for which either GPSr unit should be very adequate. But as for ruggedness, my Vista held up to biking for 3 years in the toughest situations, yet the 60CSx are failing in a couple weeks (twice for my friend) or days (my experience) even though at the very same time the Vista was unharmed on the bars and the 60CSx was "protected" in my pack. This is our real experience being reported. Also, our desire for an eTrex line with SiRF is solely for the Vista ruggedness with good reception of the SiRF. I own several GPSr, including the 60CSx too. So affordability has nothing to do with it. Both of us have owned or still own the 60CSx. And finally, the 60CSx is a great GPSr that will serve most all geocacher's well. I indeed love the great capabilty of the 60CSx, especially it's reception in the thick foilage of CA. That's why I continue to carry it as a second GPSr unit, protected as best I can. But if I had an eTrex VistaCx with the SiRF receiver, I'd only need to carry one GPSr. As then the VistaCx would be much like a smaller rugged version of the 60CSx.

There could be variations (read the directions). But generally, one charger will work among all brands of batteries and different capacities, assuming they fit. Smarter chargers use voltage to tell when the charge is done so bigger capacity batteries can charge at full current at a good rate. Dumb chargers just slowly charge at a constant time at a voltage just above the battery level. So the charge current will automatically taper off as the battery voltage gets close to the output voltage. When at full charge the two voltages (battery and charger) match, and there's no more charging current at all. Only two big things to look out for: 1. The charger can be set to the right type battery (NiCad, NiMH, Li,...) for the proper charge voltage. 2. If you have a "fast charger", like less than an hour or two, then the battery is a "fast battery", that is built to handle that much current.

Say what? This is the first time I've heard this! It's what I read on another thread, where Garmin was going from ???? to NavTek for their information base. It seemed the change occured about a year or so ago, when going from City Select to City Navigator. The change in information data sources was used to explain why some streets and POIs improved and others degraded or went missing. Like some were complaining many campgrounds in City Select went completely missing in City Navigator. I could be wrong. I only repeat what was on the other thread, perhaps a week ago. But I thought I saw supporting evidence in a couple places too.

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds. My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx. Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched. I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line.

MetroGuide doesn't have the routing information for use on the GPS (only on the computer), fine for non-routing units, like my eTrex Vista. City Navigator is the newest as Garmin is changing information providers. Streets are somewhat improved, but some are worse. So streets and POI information accuracy are almost a toss up ovr City Select, the previous product. Garmin is trying to get everyone to move to City Navigator. The biggest advantage of City Navigator is that the map segments (or sections) are larger. Lage map segments help because many of the new GPSr units with a GigaByte or two of memory hit the 2048 loadable map segments firmware limit before they run out of memory, so larger segments are better. The smaller segments of City Select are better for my eTrex Vista and Quest, with only 24 MB and 128 MB, respectively, as I can fine tune what areas I include with the smaller segments. EDIT: As mentioned by Sputnik, I've heard CN version 8 (versus version 7) is getting smaller map segments again, but not quite as small as City Select. When I get my CN available, I'll compare myself. Maybe it's a compromise as Garmin want's to use CN for all purposes. And even CN version 8, with more of the smaller segments, can get the whole US in memory with the segment count limit. So it made sense to reduce the segment size and increase the number of maps. But the only problem is that I won't be able to add as many Topo maps without going over the map count.

I carry two GPS, Vista and 60CSx, so I go through lots of batteries. I've been cycling through 8 of the old Sunpack 1600 mAh that are dying after a couple years of use. Based on the recommendations above, I ordered the Maha PowerEx charger with four AAs at 2700 mAh for $48 on Amazon. Then I happened to be in Circuit City and saw the Sony BCG-34HRMF4 Super Quick Charger with LCD Indicator and 4 AA Batteries at 2700 mAh. Like the Maha unit, it had independent fast charging, circuits to repair battery memory, and even a separate LCD indicator for each battery, missing on the Maha. Best of all, it was half the price of the Maha unit at $23 on Amazon. I"m sure the Maha is better, but I'd probably got the Sony if I saw it first. It looks like a excellent deal for the money.

Yes, you can transfer waypoints to ahd from National Geographic TOPO! Don't know about Delorm, but most all mapping programs have GPS interfaces that usually work with Garmin products. NG is nice for the pretty and detailed topo plots. I did a comparison with MapSource Top on this forum a day or two ago.

Go to Garmin's Out-of_Warranty web site and you can see how much it costs to repair your unit under their flat fee repair program. For example, a plain eTrex is $59. In general, if you can fit all the broken pieces in a box and send them back, they'll fix it and give you one refurbished like-new, for about half the discount new price. I did this once for my eTrex Vista after two years of very bad abuse on my mountain bike handlebars. All the cosmetic and wear issues were fixed (rubber worn off, sticky joystick, scratched screen), along with a bad connection causing power out as you discuss.

Sorry, I haven't ever seen a way to view detailed track data on the GPS. I wait until I'm back home and look at the properties on the PC. On the odometer page, if you select "small numbers", one of the fields is defaulted to "Max Speed" if that's what you want.