Jeff&Suli

(Sorry, accidental double post of my last note due to momentary loss of internet connection.)

Does this mean that 2.60 firmware solves the problem? Seems pretty early to say that. As posted above, I had three perfect caches a few days ago with 2.60, and I am encouraged to see that JesterYHZ & crew seem to have positive results, but due to the intermittent nature of the problem (at least on my Legend Cx), I am still holding my breath to see what others and I find on more extensive caching... Having said that...keep the 2.60 trial info coming! Jammer

I saw the post and had some free time, so I updated to 2.60, did a complete reset of by Legend Cx, let it sit outside for a full hour to grab the signal...then headed out with it and my old B&W Legend to some nearby caches I had already found. Overcast in Orlando, so I was getting between 13-20 feet accuracy on both units. The results-- well, no bad news yet. Which is hopefully good... On the three caches I hit, including one where the Cx had went crazy last time, both GPSrs took me right to the same location, and in each case it was right on top of the caches. I hope to hit some more caches this weekend. Maybe...just maybe...well I don't want to get to optimistic yet...

Doh! I have been away from the forum, and didn't realize this thread had taken off. I had also been trying to call attention to this very problem, which I captured in the thread below WITH VIDEO CLIPS of my Legend Cx trying to put me in a like while my old Legend took me right to the cache. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=137072&hl= Despite my notes that I was going to follow up with Garmin, this completely fell off my radar the last few months. To be honest, I am close to putting my Legend Cx up on eBay rather than wait for a fix, as it seems like Garmin would have had one by now if it was possible to do with firmware or software. Garmin should be all over this problem, but the response I consistently got by email was that they didn't believe this was an issue, that I was expecting too much accuracy. This is a HUGE disappointment for me, having heard so much always of Garmin's great customer service. SUGGESTION SUGGESTION SUGGESTION SUGGESTION If you want to continue to call attention to this, in hopes of getting action by Garmin, I have a suggestion. Go to sites like Amazon.com where you can review this unit (or cnet.com, or circuitcity.com, etc.) and write a negative review saying that its not a good unit for geocaching. If word gets out about this to where it might be affecting Garmin's bottom line, well...maybe they'll admit the problem and (!gasp!) address it!

Hello, VI. In the side-by-side test with other GPSrs (in my my case an older eTrex Legend) both GPSrs give the same readings & distance until the last 100 feet or so. That's when the Legend Cx tends to start pointing in a different direction from the older Legend. And, unfortunately, when this happens the Cx is always wrong (which it so say, the Cx takes me significantly further from the geocache than the other unit).

Hey, this could be an interesting parallel test. I'm in Orlando. I'm heading up to Greenville, SC & the Asheville area this weekend, and may do some caching. I'll also post if I have more luck up there... Thanks, Jammer

Right now, there are only questions and no answers. Most of the responses I've garnered have been for Legend Cx and Vista Cx models, and the problem is not constant but does happen frequently. Keep caching for a while, and you'll probably get a better sense if its your Legend or just being new to caching. Ideally, take another GPSr and go caching with some other folks. Which, if you're looking for folks with whom to cache-- schedule an event cache in your area and post coordinates for it, and you could even call it something like "group caching" or "help me check my unit" or similar to be fun... And welcome to caching! It is a helluva lot better than sitting on the couch all weekend!

I just sent a follow-up email-- here is the text. I'll keep you all posted... ________________________ Hello, again, [NAME] and all. I have not heard back anything by email since I sent the note below. However, several other geocachers have posted to the forum indicating they are having the exact same problem with their Legend Cx's-- it frequently goes significantly off-course when approaching a geocache, while other GPSr units (Garmin and other brands) are able to consistently get to the geocache area. When I say significantly, I mean that the Legend claims good accuracy (less than 20 feet) but is more than 50 feet away from the location. Here again is a link to that forum posting, including video showing the errors I am getting. Other geocachers are watching these videos and indicating that they too are having this issue. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...1entry2337101 Please let me know how we should proceed. If I don't hear anything by email, then I'll call the support number next week. Thanks again-- geocachers are in agreement that Garmin customer support is outstanding!

Thanks for the additional input & testimonies. I have not heard back from Garmin by email since I sent the link to the videos. I am about to send another email to the guy, and if I don't hear back by Monday I'll start calling to try to get some attention on this. Sounds like this problem is not uncommon, to say the least... More soon. Jammer

A note about the Legend Cx-- a lot of folks are completely happy with them, and if you get one I hope you are too! But, a number of us that post on this board (at least 10 of us) have discovered an intermittent problem with the accuracy of the Cx, whereby it seems to drift significantly as we approach the geocache. I posted a thread about this, featuring video of the error. When it occurs, it takes me off-course by 30-100 feet (although some Cx users have reported being off by as much as 300 feet!!!). The reason I know I am off course is that my older B&W Legend takes me right to the correct location, where I usually find the cache quickly!!! So, keep that in mind. Again, it doesn't seem to be all Cx's, and with mine it is not even all the time, but until Garmin figures out why it does this, I would suggest another unit...

I've had the exact same problems between my old Legend and my LegendCx. Garmin exchanged my Cx with another and the same problems. Updating to 2.5 and still no difference. My Cx is always about 40-60 feet off on the longitude, in the easterly direction, where my old Legend is always within the normal 15-20' error. Side by side, on a clear open field at the cache, the Cx shows the cache is about 60' east. I would never place a new cache using just the Cx because of this problem. I'm waiting too for a fix since so many users indicate the same problem. If nothing else I'd like to see an option to switch a bit and change the longitude by say 50'. RGS Thanks for the note RGS. I'm especially interested to hear that Garmin has been made aware of the issue before... I haven't paid attention to the direction of the "drift" but I will to see if mine is also in an easterly direction. We do love the Cx for the color screen, geocaching features, battery life...but that's all fluff if the GPS accuracy is off...

Thanks for the note, UT. I hadn't considered the track feature-- I'll disable it and see if it makes a difference on the Cx, as we don't really use the tracks for much anyways... I have heard about the potential interference of two units close together, and we normally keep them separate (we each carry one). But for the video, that was a necessary evil, and showed the problem as we always see it. And, the reason we discovered the differences was because when we first went out with our Cx, we didn't take the B&W Legend, and we had a lot of trouble finding the caches. So then we started the parallel work, and were unhappily surprised at the frequent difference in accuracy, and even more unhappy that the more expensive unit was always wrong... It is an odd problem, because right up to the last 100 feet or so, the GPSrs give nearly identical readings to the cache. Then, at some point, the Cx will start to fork in a different and wrong direction. I guess its picking up some interference that the older Legend doesn't? Who knows... Hopefully I'll get a note back from the Garmin techs in the next few days (although with the holiday I realize it might be delayed a little). Like I said-- if others have this issue, please post a note here as it could help to figure out the problem... Thanks, Jammer

I vote for the Garmin eTrex Legend. Great reception and accuracy, intuitive to use, durable, good battery life. The only con-- it does come with a computer cable, but your PC has to have a serial port to use it. Or you have to shell out some more $$ to get a serial to USB adapter, as PCs manufactured in the last five years tend to have all USBs and no serial ports.

Hey, folks. I'm posting this as a new thread to try and get some new eyes on it, to see if others are having this problem. There has been another thread going for a while which details where a number of us cachers have discussed that our Cx units (Legends and Vistas) consistently go off-course by 30-300 feet when getting close to geocaches (which, as you all know, can be HUGE and extremely frustrating...) while our older GPSr units (like my black and white eTrex Legend) consistently get us right to the very same caches. I have been emailing with Garmin about the issue, but the tech (who is being quite professional and responsive...) wasn't able to replicate the problem in his test. So I told him I would attempt to capture the problem on video... Tammer & I went to two geocaches today, and fortunately (well, unfortunately in the grand scheme of things...) they BOTH presented the error. I am only posting the video for one of them, where the error is much more evident (the Cx trying to put me in a lake as opposed to the middle of an empty parking lot)... I am sure you will agree (tongue in cheek) that these clips represent incredible groundbreaking geocache broadcast journalism...please excuse the quality of the clips (taken with my digital camera, not a camcorder, then converted to email size), and all my rambling as I attempt to carry two GPSrs, a camera, narrate, and not trip over my own clumsy self... I think Tammer & the dogs were having a good laugh watching me stumble around... This first clip...is five minutes long, 10MB in size. Shows several approaches, each ending with my old black & white Legend getting me right to the cache, and my Cx attempting to take me 60 feet from it-- and into a lake!!! This second clip is just a shortened version of the first, showing only the last approach to the cache. Its a minute long and about 5MB in size. If you watched the first clip, you will have already seen this one at its end... If you are having the same issue consistently (because it can happen to all GPSrs on occasion...) please post a note to this thread. I'll post updates about working with Garmin as well. Thanks-- sorry for the long post! Jammer (& Tammer, and Harry the cocker spaniel, and Baby Beagle...)

I have noticed a few times that the WebUpdater tool doesn't always grab new updates. So, I don't use it anymore. From their page that directs you to download it, there a link to the effect of "Display available updates." From that page, you can see all updates available for your unit, and manually download and execute if desired.

Another note-- I responded to the Garmin support rep's email, as below: _______________________________________________ Hello, again, (name removed). Thanks for your note below. I appreciate your time and effort so far, and any that that may still come... I am still having the problem, and more people have posted to the geocache forum stating the same. (Link to the latest thread at the bottom.) Currently, eight geocachers (including myself) have posted that they have the same issue with their Cx series (Legend and Vista) Garmin GPSr. I am going to go geocaching with a videocamera soon, and attempt to capture the problem in order to email some video examples. I've asked the other cachers to attempt to do the same, in the event it helps identify if there is a problem with the units. Thanks again-- Garmin always gets great marks among cachers for their customer support. Link to relevant geocache forum topic: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...3entry2304013

Update from Garmin-- but no headway. Sorry for the delay, for anyone watching this thread. I received the email below from Garmin on June 8, and meant that very weekend to go out with both GPSrs and a video camera to try and document the problem on video to provide to Garmin. But, I have not yet done this, and it slipped my mind to update this post til EvilOnesGeo sent me a reminder email (thanks!). Long and short-- as I had told the Garmin rep in the previous emails, the problem does not happen everytime. He was not able to duplicate the error with his Cx. It is still my plan to go caching with a videocamera. Can anyone else try to do the same, ideally comparing their Cx with another unit, showing how the Cx goes off-point close to geocaches with unfortunate frequency... Thanks, Jammer PS--- here is the text of the response from the Garmin rep: __________________________________________________ Thank you for contacting Garmin International! To follow up with you're inquiries, I have conducted a few tests with the accuracy of my Vista Cx compared to the Legend. I created a waypoint with the my Vista Cx, I then changed the symbol on the Mark Waypoint screen to change it to a closed treasure chest. This waypoint is now considered a Geocache. I took the longitude and latitude and I inputted the cooridinates into my Legend on it's Mark Waypoint screen. When finished, I made sure both units had the same accuracy, about plus/minus 24ft, and then I conducted a Go To to the specific cooridinates. Initially, the Legend started it's count down quicker, but when I was approaching the geocache ( Off Road tranisition ) my Vista Cx go me with in five feet of the Geocache. The Legend got with in ten feet of the cooridinate, when I tried getting closer to the point, the Legend would degrade from it's distance to destination. My Vista Cx is at the version 2.4, which shares the same version with you're Legend Cx. When I did look at the current longitude and latitude from both GPS's and from the Satellite page, both units had different hundreths, and thousandths of a minute. This could also come into play with searching for the cache. I believe the distance to destination resulting five to ten feet was excellent. The units will not pin point exactly where the cache is, but it will definitely get you in the area of the cache, maybe leaving you with a little bit of a hunt for the cache. _______________________________________________________

No problem on the effort! If anyone reading this knows other folks with similar issues, please have them post to this thread. More folks logging the issue hopefully highlights it more to Garmin...

I have receive a note from Garmin tech support. Below is the text of their note, and my response. More soon (I hope). ____________________________________________ NOTE FROM GARMIN TO ME: Thank you for contacting Garmin International! Dear Mr. Chambers, To follow up with you're inquiry, when conducting the go to the Geocache cooridnate, have both units acquired satellites, and do both of them have similar accuracy when the initial Go To is started ( accuracy displayed on Satellite pg. )? I have not seen this myself, but I would be more than happy to conduct a test with a Legend and a Vista Cx to a Geocach in my area. Basically, I would copy the coorindates and input them manually into the Legend. Then, I would download the Geocache from Geocache.com through Easy GPS conduit. I will test this complication myself, and I will be in touch with you, and let you know what I have found by Friday this week. (Contact info removed) ______________________________________________ MY RESPONSE BACK TO GARMIN Thank you very much for the response and detail. Per your questions, in my experience, when the older Legend has been more accurate, both units have indicated similar accuracy on the satellite page. Generally, I am able to get 8-15 feet accuracy where I live in Florida. Which is nice... And both units consistently bring me to the same general area-- say with twenty yards-- before the Cx sometimes seems to go off-course. Of course, this doesn't happen every time, but it happens probably 25% of the time so far (we've only had the Cx for a month). And when the two units do diverge close to the geocache, the older Legend has always been more accurate. Thank you again for your time. I realize this may sound like an odd issue, especially since it is not a constant variation, but a seemingly intermittent one. We thought that we were just imagining it, but from the other posters on the Groundspeak.com bboard, it seems others are having the same problems. Or we are all suffering the same delusion! Sincerely, Jeff Chambers

I hope to get a response from Garmin today on this. Meanwhile, if anyone else is having similar concerns with their Legend Cx, please post a note here! Thanks! Jammer

Hey, folks. As a start, I just dropped the following text to Garmin via their site support options. I will follow up and keep this thread posted as possible... (Note to Garmin, Saturday 2006.06.03 9:30am EST) Hello. I am an avid geocacher, and I only use Garmin GPSrs. Recently bought a Legend Cx (had the B&W Legend). I have found that side by side, the OLDER Legend (the B&W) is consistently more accurate to geocaches. I posted on the geocache forums, and have found several others are finding the same problem. We love Garmin, but it is disheartening to spend $300+ dollars for a GPSr whose basic functionality doesn't seem as strong as the older unit. Can I work with someone at Garmin to investigate and possibly address this seeming problem, since it seems to be something of a consensus among our experienced geocachers? Thanks! FYI, the link to the discussion forum is http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=134219[/quote

Hey, Sputnik-- you may be on to something. After fumbling through the setup screens to find where a "datum" is selected, I found out mine was set to SE US or something like that. I switched it to WGS84 per your suggestion. I'll post back if it seems to make a difference... Thanks, Jammer

WAAS is a good thing, if you can get the right satellite signals. The gist is that there are a pair or trio of satellites with some special designation or signal to improve the accuracy of your GPSr. But, certain parts of the globe (maybe of the US?) don't have a line of sight/connection to the WAAS satellites. Enable it and see if you get better readings. I think on the "Satellites" screen of the GPSr, there is some way to tell if you are successfully connected to WAAS satellites-- I want to say if you connect to satellites numbered 34-36, but someone else can clarify and correct me. If you become convinced that you are not benefitting from the WAAS enabled setting, then turn it off to save some battery power and speed up your screen refreshes and calculations. I think so anyways... I haven't looked into it per se, but I have read a bit about it on these forums. Peace, JC

Thanks for the note back. No, I haven't defaulted an option, and I always choose "off-road." I found another thread from a month ago asking this same question. I posted there, asking anyone having Cx related accuracy issues to post in THIS thread to see if others are noticing a problem.

Hey, folks. I am new on the forums. I recently posted that my wife & I have just upgraded from Legend to Legned Cx. Very happy overall, but, specific to this thread... So far, when our two units show a difference, the older Legend is more accurate (when geocaching). And several times the Cx has been off by 50 feet or more while the plain Jane monochrome Legend has been spot on. A couple other folks have responded to my post, and someone else just posted in the thread I reference below. If anyone else with the Cx is seeing significant accuracy problems more than is to be expected, kindly post it on this thread below (sorry RangerR47-- I had already sent a few PMs directing to this new thread before I found this thread you started). If it looks like a lot of folks are seeing this, I'll try to run it up the Garmin flagpole and see if they tell me we're nuts, or whether they have any ideas or patches. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=134219 Thanks! Jammer