Firstly, thank you to those who have taken the time to participate in this discussion.
I'd like to address some of the points raised. I am a UK Reviewer, I was at the meeting where the Team and a Lackey discussed this issue.
This is very difficult issue to explain and give examples without breaching confidentiality - however, suffice it to say that the Feedback we had from Groundspeak was that Events were increasingly being submitted that could be interpreted as being less than social.
Recent changes to the Event Guidelines - where Flashmobs were being submitted that lasted 5 minutes or less - that stated that Events must be at least a Minimum duration of 30 minutes - has resulted in an increase of Events being submitted that last for Only 30 minutes.
The problem isn't a unique problem to the UK. What may make us unique is that we have a very tight knit Team who wish to work cohesively to try to ensure best practise. The solution was to have a UK applicable framework for all of us to work within.
Nadiagoescaching, on 17 June 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:
With all respect, in reply to this comment, some reviewers take these 'guidelines' as rules and are very stubborn and will not listen to any common sense.
Team Microdot
What we need to remember is that:
1. When it suits them, people expect consistent practices between reviewers related to the guidelines in force at the time
2. When it suits them, people expect latitude and special treatment from reviewers related to the guidelines in force at the time
The problem with that of course is that you can't have both.
These new additions of 20 miles OR 10 hours were to clarify a specific criteria of time or distance which would hopefully result in a more consistently applied guideline.
redsox_mark
Speculating...
How does the reviewer tell Scenario 1 from Scenario 2?
So - my speculation - is that the new guidelines are to stop things like Scenario 1. And the reviewers would like to have clear guidelines rather than have to make difficult judgments about the intent of the events. A consequence of this is independent events which just happen to be near each other in place and time (Scenario 2) are also impacted. (Though in reality, how often will examples of Scenario 2 happen?).
Again, just speculation. But this seems logical to me.
From Post 19 - this is indeed why the criteria were introduced.
Team Microdot
Correct - and people also don't like that the guidelines that are visible are as lengthy and complex as they are - so what to do?
My view is that the reviewer guidelines are for the reviewer's guidance, underpin the higher level guidelines with more detailed and more specific decision criteria and not something we need to see.
But on this occasion we decided to share them nationally to avoid the first few refusals being taken personally.
Happy Humphrey
They are saying that independent events on the same day will not be allowed ever, even if they are spread quite widely.
No, we're saying that the independent events will be allowed on the same day, as long as they are - according to the new additions - at least 20 miles / 10 hours apart.
Legochugglers
The more I read into this the more convinced I am that the reviewers have come up with a workable solution. It is probably much better to set out a stringent set of guidelines and then treat each case on its merits and make exceptions where necessary than to have woolly arrangements and be constantly interpreting issues and contradictions. I think that one of the only scenarios that might occasionally fall foul of the guidelines is where there may be two completely unrelated events looking to be set by different EOs which are date/time specific and say 15 miles apart. If it is obvious to the reviewer that this is just coincidence and the EOs explain the personal relevance of the date I wonder if one of the Reviewers would be bold enough to state that they would probably allow both? I won't hold my breath.
I'm a bold Reviewer. I would probably publish both of the Events as described above.
Team Microdot
View PostLegochugglers, on 17 June 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:
The more I read into this the more convinced I am that the reviewers have come up with a workable solution. It is probably much better to set out a stringent set of guidelines and then treat each case on its merits and make exceptions where necessary than to have woolly arrangements and be constantly interpreting issues and contradictions.
Tend to agree although I do wonder if an either/or criteria selection might be fairer?
By that I mean limit events either on time or distance - but not both, or at least not at the values currently settled on - I think they are a smidge too high.
The limits are either 20 miles - for events happening at the same time
or 10 HOURS for events in the same area.
As already confirmed by Graculus in his post 2, these values may be reconsidered at a later date.
Event consultation
in United Kingdom and Ireland
Posted
Firstly, thank you to those who have taken the time to participate in this discussion.
I'd like to address some of the points raised. I am a UK Reviewer, I was at the meeting where the Team and a Lackey discussed this issue.
This is very difficult issue to explain and give examples without breaching confidentiality - however, suffice it to say that the Feedback we had from Groundspeak was that Events were increasingly being submitted that could be interpreted as being less than social.
Recent changes to the Event Guidelines - where Flashmobs were being submitted that lasted 5 minutes or less - that stated that Events must be at least a Minimum duration of 30 minutes - has resulted in an increase of Events being submitted that last for Only 30 minutes.
The problem isn't a unique problem to the UK. What may make us unique is that we have a very tight knit Team who wish to work cohesively to try to ensure best practise. The solution was to have a UK applicable framework for all of us to work within.
These new additions of 20 miles OR 10 hours were to clarify a specific criteria of time or distance which would hopefully result in a more consistently applied guideline.
From Post 19 - this is indeed why the criteria were introduced.
But on this occasion we decided to share them nationally to avoid the first few refusals being taken personally.
No, we're saying that the independent events will be allowed on the same day, as long as they are - according to the new additions - at least 20 miles / 10 hours apart.
I'm a bold Reviewer. I would probably publish both of the Events as described above.
The limits are either 20 miles - for events happening at the same time
or 10 HOURS for events in the same area.
As already confirmed by Graculus in his post 2, these values may be reconsidered at a later date.