gtojerry

. That's what I was saying, I still own all of these GPSs except for the Lowrance which I sold a few weeks ago. . The Etrex 20 meets the Russianators specs and price. . I like the Magellan's but hate the company's Philippines customer support. .

The Etrex 20 has it's share of bugs too. I am not sure why you are recommending the Explorist 400. It is an out of production model that doesn't fix the specs that the OP is asking for. I'd recommend the Explorist 310 or GC. I think he's just saying that he has owned the explorist 400 (along with those other units) and not that he is recommending it. Okay,,, I see that now... The non-standard, punctuation... threw me off...

. Thanks for the info on the "Vendor Proprietary Extension", "sounds typical"... So what's the story between Lowrance and Groundspeak? Is Lowrance not willing to give the programming to Groundspeak or is it Groundspeak wants $$$$ from Lowrance? So a cacher can't send a cache directly to their Lowrance GPS from the Groundspeak website but instead is forced to use a third party program like Easy GPS or others that supports the Lowrance format to convert the GPX or pocket query file into Lowrance language for the transfer to their GPS? I use to be a hardcore programmer but after I retired 8 years ago I won't even open a program to see how it's written, you can call it burn out...

NO, Garmin GPX files are different from Lowarance are different from Magellan! (additionally, Lowrance does not use the same GPX format standard that everyone has been using for the last 8 years.) (based on files provided to me by Lowrance) Basic items like waypoint having lat long & ele are the same Vendors have proprietary extensions to add other information. Each vendor has their own header information pointing to their schema. Most vendors use a symbol name to refer to icons for waypoints, Lowrance uses a table look up scheme, the same symbol may appear in multiple rows! Symbol names for the other vendors match on very few. e.g, for "Park" Garmin, "Evergreen Tree" DeLorme, "Park Recreation" Magellan, "Tree" Lowrance "Campground" Garmin, "Tent" DeLorme, "Campground" or "Camping" Magellan, "Camp Site" Lowrance (The GPX info for Lowrance provides a row & col, not the symbol name shown, that is from lookup.) Most applications only use the base/common information and ignore extensions. Symbols provide very useful information, a shame that they aren't usable on other vendors units. (Symbol sets also can very between different model series within a vendor.) That's why I wrote a table driven translation app to do the conversion including track & route colors. It also converts to Google Earth KML using their placemark symbols or a 269 icon set. It doesn't currently handle geocaches though..... so I haven't looked into how they are handled between the vendors. DeLorme separates theirs by symbol name, don't know about the others. App vendors write the appropriate headers for the destination GPS if they want to provide more than basic information.

I bought the Garmin Etrex 20 and love it. Got it for $149 from an online sporting goods store. I've owned the the following GPS's before buying the Etrex 20.... Magellan's Explorist 400, Triton 400, 500, They are ok, a few bugs. Lowrance Out&Back... Stay away from Lowrance... Garmin Etrex Venture HC, Vista HCX, Great GPS for their time...

. Yes all GPX files are the same, it's the manufactures hand-shaking programming language between the GPS and GPS program you're using that is different. You will notice when you're using Easy GPS for instance you have to pick the GPS you want the GPX file written too. Too bad there's not an industry transfer standard, I got tired of taking out my topo card to upload pocket quarys, add to it the lazy pointer and distance issues and ended up selling my Out&Back.

. I really don't think Lowrance field tested these units geocaching, maybe hiking. If real geocachers had tested these units they would had never been sold to the public. The units I have sent back all had lazy pointer issues and it's still a problem today with the third one they sent me... I took it out of the box put batteries in, tested it and it too had the lazy pointer problem so I took the batteries out, put it back in the box and put it into storage... I really don't see Lowrance staying in the geocaching hobby. Magellan Tritons are having Vantage Point problems uploading Geocaching.com gpx files and freezing the units up... About the only manufacture I have seen making progress with the lazy pointer issues is Garmin with frequent firmware updates... The firmware updates work best if you turn the Russian Sats off, then Etrex 20 works great like a geocacher would expect. For some reason with Best Buy dumping the Lowrance Out&Back for $80.00 has to be sending people a message. Some day there will be a manufacture that will print on their boxes... Made by geocachers for geocachers in the USA.

So you have tried the Triton Forums... http://www.tritonforum.com They are pretty sharp people on that board.

You can call Lowrance and they should be able to walk you through it. Their customer support is pretty good.

You might try putting the SD card in ... then turn it on and see if it reads and loads in. Once you get the 1.5 firmware running it should take care of getting you closer to the cache. But be aware some units will still have problems with the feet or pointer. I've had 2 units both with the current 1.5 firmware and both units still have the problem.

StarBrand would you post what your Out&Back settings are for geocaching since yours is operating fine. . I have tried to re-upload the current firmware but the unit only allows you to do it once and not again. I have tried to enable and disable different features to see if I could get it working without any luck and this is my second unit with the pointer issue.

. LadyBee4T I have an Out&Back and the last 2 units have had pointer problems. The Out&Back model has no electronic compass to calibrate, my last two Out&Backs that Lowrance sent me will do the following.... . I'm standing 100 feet south from a cache and 20 feet to the east... I walk a normal pace north the "Feet" will count down no problem and as I walk past the cache the pointer will still point north until I get 60 feet past and north of the cache before the pointer will point south to the cache. . I can be 60 feet south of the cache and walk north at a normal pace in a straight line to the cache and the the "Feet" count will count down all the way to 3 feet with no problem but the pointer will not clock toward the cache as I walk by and past until I get 60 feet past. I did send a video to Lowrance Lady to view a while back. . To me the pointer and "Feet" should work together, when I spoke to a male technician at Lowrance he told me I had to be at least walking 5 mph so the pointer would work, to me I didn't buy that answer since the foot counter was working fine and the pointer was not... I feel the foot counter and pointer is working together but the pointer has a firmware programming problem (Glitch). I think it's still a firmware problem only with the Out&Back unit not the other Endura models. It's the only GPS unit that I have owned that doesn't clock the pointer toward the cache as you walk by and past. I have read on others with the pointer issue.. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=261776 Like The Out&Back is put away in it's box until the next firmware update. If Lowrance would fix the lagging pointer issue the Out&Back would be a great unit to use geocaching. . I currently own... Garmin 1=Etrex Venture, 1=Etrex Vista HCX, 1=Etrex Summit HC, 2=older Etrex Legends, 2= older Etrex Vistas, 1=older Etrex Summit, 2=older yellow Etrex... . Magellan...1=GPS310, 1=Sportrak Map, 1=Explorist 400, 4=Triton 400's, 1= Triton 500 ..... . Lowrance 1=Out&Back

Your unit has a bad flash chip, if you call Lowrance tech support and tell them it's a used unit they will charge you at least $159.00 to repair it. I went through the same mess with an Out&Back unit with a bad flash chip. If your unit is less than a year old or so, or get the receipt of when it was bought you might stand a chance on asking to speak to a supervisor and let them know even if its a used unit and only a year or so old they should back the product they sell for "longevity and reliability" those are the terms I used when my Out&Back failed and I was the second owner... I don't care if your the 10th owner within a year they should back their product. The flash chip failure is a very common problem and what I was told is they had a bad batch of chips. Myself being a tech, using cheap chinese chips to save a few cents can give a company a bad name. You can see my posts on the Lowrance Out&Back problems I had, I have a new Out&Back in the box and it's got pointer problems (Lowrance knows it's common problem again) I took the batteries out and put it back in the box and will wait for the next firmware update to see if they fix the problem... Good luck and post your results.

I'm having the exact same problem with my third Out&Back unit, I had sent my second unit back when the compass and pointer wouldn't respond until I got between 10 feet and 7 feet of a cache then they would point at the cache, if I walked by the cache and kept walking to 60 feet it never changed to pointing at the cache which it should have with the unit set to course up. I called Lowrance customer service and spoke to a technician and told him what was happening and that I was comparing this unit to my Garmin Venture HC and as I walked by the cache the Venture HC would respond and the pointer would always point back at the cache while the Out&Back just froze where it was and never turned back toward the cache. The technician then told me that the compass alghoritms on the Lowrance Out&Back you have to be walking 5 mph or faster to have the Out&Back's compass and pointer to work, I had my wife look up what a human's normal walking pace is, according to Wikipedia it's 3.1 mph which means unless we have the Sierra or Safari units our compass and pointer will not work walking at a normal pace. . My question to Lowrance is since my Out&Back does count down the numbers(In Feet)to the cache in real time and does an excellent job of it why, can't Lowrance get the compass alghoritms to respond at 2.5 mph so if you're walking at a normal walking pace the compass and pointer will respond and work, if Lowrance could do that the Out&Back would be a great GPS. The way the Out&Back is made now it's totally useless for geocaching and people should stay away from it. . I would hate to be in the local forest here in Prescott, Arizona and have to rely on the Out&Back to guide me to safety with the current compass and pointer problems, I bet good odds that search and rescue would have to be sent out to find me... Lowrance read what people are complaining about and fix it, this is a known problem and the current firmware update did not fix the problem and a real safety issue. . Not talking about geocaching but if you're wanting to use this unit for hiking trails in the forest for a few days you could end up lost and this is a real safety issue. Could you imagine hiking and your suppose to make a course change to another trail and the Out&Back did not respond and had you walking in the wrong direction because the compass and pointer would not work? . That makes 2 out of 3 Out&backs I have had with Compass and Pointer problems, my first out&Back froze on the boot screen and never did work... I'm done sending units in for replacement, this one will go back on the shelf until the next firmware update. . .

The compass and pointer test failed and Out&Back still has problems, contacted Lowrance customer service and this unit is being returned to them.

So far the update took care of the white screen problem, I still need to see if the compass part works, the area I was caching was under high voltage lines and the GPS was giving false readsing so I'll take it out this week and see what happens... . Penny I sent you a PM with the results... Jerry

So far the update took care of the white screen problem, I still need to see if the compass part works, the area I was caching was under high voltage lines and the GPS was giving false readsing so I'll take it out this week and see what happens...

Hi Penny, I have went and got the new firmware update and installed it and will try it geocaching on Thursday. I see on TV that we had solar flares the past few days which can mess with electronic equipment so let me test this out tomorrow and see what happens... Thanks for letting me know about the update. Jerry

Hi it sounds like you're having the same problem like I had with my Endura Out&Back with the unit freezing at the boot screen... A couple of things that I found out. 1. If you have an early firmware version and need to update to version 1.4 first, then to 1.5 and you're using Windows 7, you will get that "unsupported window" for some reason Lowrance didn't update 1.4 to run with Windows 7... I ended up using my old computer using Windows XP and it worked fine updating to 1.4 the went on and updated to 1.5 but I still had the same problem... . See if yours is having the same problem as mine... go to message #36 http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=279044&st=0 . I ended up talking with a customer service supervisor after being told it would cost me $159 to send it in. My problem was flash chip failure (which sound like what you have) so it wouldn't boot all the time (Not my problem)... I don't know what it is with these new units failing within the first few years. I was the second owner and the unit was less than a year old. These are the questions I asked... How long is a GPS suppose to last? Product Longevity Product Reliability . I wouldn't buy a new GPS if it was only going to last less than 2 years, I have older ones that have lasted for years and still work.

I received a replacement unit and I have posted a new post called "White Screen" which happens quite a bit. Please check out the post. Jerry

Hello everyone, I sent my Out&Back in and Lowrance sent me a replacement with the current 1.5.94843 firmware. I've been testing it and comparing it to my Garmin Venture HC. So far I'm having fun geocaching with the Out&Back but have run into a few minor problems that I would like to run by everyone to see if I can fix it. . 1. First off I have the GPS set for "Track Up" and set for "Closest" using the touch screen. When I press "Menu", Find", "Geocaches", "Show All" Touch a cache name... Now the problem... I get a white blank screen with the cache name at the top and the "Arrow up & Down" on the bottom left screen and "Back" on the bottom right... If I hit back then touch the cache again I get the same thing.. What I have to do to get the cache information is back all the out to the menu screen and start over then it comes up just fine... I have tried it not using the touch screen and use the "Mark" and the up & down buttons and it seems it doesn't do it as much... . 2. When ever I start heading for a cache I have to walk 25 to 35 paces which would be about 30 to 50 feet before I can get the pointer and compass to respond, the numbers telling me how far to the cache works fine... So lets say you walk south past the cache, the both the pointer and compass will still contine to point south for about 25 feet then turn, but as soon as I walk by the cache the numbers will instantly start counting up in numbers like it should... so I'm having a problem with slugish or lazy pointer and compass not really a good thing geocaching... . Problem one is just a slight problem but problem 2 is a problem because I like to walk a large square around a cache sometimes to zero it in... I did find all the caches I was looking for today so I'm really happy..

Just to follow up, I got to talk to a customer service rep today and described what the unit was doing. I'm mailing the Out&Back to Lowrance and a technician will be looking into the problem with the unit and possible cause. Thank you Lowrance Lady for the work you did for me. GTOJerry

LadyBee4T Thanks, I don't know if I'll waste anymore time with Lowrance, I was hoping that I would have been able to talk to a real live technician and not a call taker, just sad... . Sorry, I'm not really in the mood to go ladder chasing today, I had to put down one of my young dogs and 2 days later my mother in law passed away here on the 23rd so I think getting out caching and getting some fresh air is the best thing for me right now...

Yes shocked the heck out of me but we bought the unit new and had it for 5 or 6 years, when you call Magellan you don't get a technician you get a person in the Philippines with no technical background, they take the GPS information then transfer you over to another person in charge of the RMA's, you do have to give them a credit card number because they ship the replacement out the same day so if you fail to ship your bad unit back to Mitac you'll be charged for the replacement unit. So Mitac has no phone technicians to talk to. The lady I talked to at Lowrance sound like a non technical person and just hands out RMA's and where to ship it.... . Garmin on the other hand you do get a real technican on the phone and when I bought my Etrex Vista HCx there was a slight problem that the satellites wasn't picking up where my location was and the technician went and got the same unit and told me how to force the GPS to read my location. Since I'm a retired technician it's a big plus to get a live technical person because they know the workings of the units inside and out, call takers and RMA people are just that and saves these companies money,plus these units are made in China, it's cheaper to take the bad units and swap out the bad boards with new ones and send them out as refurbish replacements so they only employ a few technicians. I was so happy what Magellan did I went out and bought the Triton 500 I like the unit but sometime it locks up in the field and I have to reboot it. Sounds like all the new super units have this problem. I bought the Endura from my sons friend who tried geocaching and gave it up, the big WOW buying it from him was being able to upload 4000 caches to it, it lasted here 3 months or so then it started having the freezing up problems more and more. I tried re-uploading firmware versions 1.4 then 1.5.1a back again and it will work for 4 or 5 times before going back to the boot screen freeze. I bought the new Etrex 20 and it's freezing up in the field at times when you're under trees or quits when you get 50 feet from the caches, so again it's firmware problems. I just wish these companies would send out 50 units to hot shot cachers and log all the problems then fix them before releasing them in the field. I still own a Magellan GPS315 and Sportrak Map and they still work the same as when I took them out of their boxes. I'm not going to buy another GPS for a while until one of these companies gets their act together... With this Out&Back it's a pretty color picture that appears when you press the pwr button but that's it, no red LED flashes or booting takes place, I can leave it like that for 30 minutes and it's still the same... A pretty color picture. Have a great new years, I'm going caching I need 19 more to make it 500 before the end of the year.

Just got off the phone with Lowrance and since I am the second owner of this unit... because of "THEIR FIRMWARE PROBLEM" I was told to ship the unit back and they would gladly send me a replacement unit for $159.00 plus $12.00 shipping, I told the lady NO... WHY??? To me Lowrance has not fixed their firmware problems and why should I pay for another problem prone GPS. It would have been nice to say, sir we know there are problems with this unit, please send it in for free "Refurblished" replacement... But no they didn't even offer to repair the unit just exchange it at cost, so what does that tell me? There's a flash chip problem. So now I see the game... Put out a bogus unit then when problems happen it cost you the same amount for a replacement... So I'll be selling this unit on either Craigslist or Ebay as broken, it has the Rockies SD card all for $75.00 if someone wants it PM me. But first I have to make a UTube video of the problems so anyone thinking of buying this model might want to think twice. NOTE: Remember this is nothing I did, I'm just a geocacher and retired Motorola electronics technician... But in fact the problem is a GPS and firmware chip problem that they manufacture sells to the public and will not back up their product that is the real problem. Chinese chips, yes most likely. At least when my wife's Magellan Explorist 400 went to the blue screen of death, Magellan gave us a RMA # and replaced the unit free and sent her a "Refurhished" Triton 400, it was nice of them because they know there was a "KNOWN BUG" and at least wanted to keep their customers happy. The 400 freezes up once in a while but not that bad to contact Magellan we just reboot it and go... Sorry Lowrance you lost another customer... .