Forest-Ghost

Thanks for laying out those steps. Is this something we're going to move forward on? And if so, what is the plan?

It’s because their goal is increasing revenue—bringing in new players, simplifying the geocaching platform, and making it more accessible. Wherigo, as it currently stands, does not accomplish this goal. Wherigo is Groundspeak’s intellectual property and they don’t see a benefit from giving it away. The leadership at HQ doesn’t have some personal investment in the Wherigo platform like we do. The community has tried a partnership before. The Wherigo foundation website was launched in 2013—a solution to the myriad of Wherigo problems, but several years ago, HQ made everyone remove any reference to the Wherigo foundation website from their cache pages, and barely even acknowledged that the website existed. They never acknowledged all the hard work the foundation members and community has done to improve the Wherigo platform and don't seem to care. I don’t see any scenario where HQ changes course and partners with the community, and this isn’t a democracy where the community can decide on things or try and take over. The only option is if the community starts their own platform. Btw Pokémon Go currently has 71 million active players. Geocaching has around 2 million. Success outside of geocaching is definitely possible.

In fact, lots of independent platforms are used regularly and successfully with geocaches! Scratch, Intercache, geomob, metaverse, YouTube, the list goes on. We saw recently that HQ removed the benchmarking database, deleting hundreds of hours of work for benchmarkers. The leadership team at HQ has made it pretty clear that they don’t particularly like Wherigo either. An independent platform that could still be used with geocaches would ensure the safety of all we create. As an added benefit, creating a new platform, separate from Wherigo.com, actually has the potential to be a lot bigger than geocaching. Websites like Scratch have millions of users and over 100 million projects! Location-based technology is still in its infancy, and there are very few games out there. How cool would it be to have a website devoted to creating NEW location-based games? And then, instead of just pulling from geocachers, we’d be accessible to developers, builders, and designers worldwide.

I previously shared my thoughts in the post linked below, but I just want to reiterate for anyone who has hope of an improved Wherigo platform: The best chance for success is to launch a SEPARATE PLATFORM where we wouldn’t be dependent on Groundspeak. Groundspeak is never going to give up control of Wherigo.

I am receiving the same error as well and can no longer edit any of my Wherigo cartridges. I have tried reporting the issue HQ -- hopefully they will fix it.

What about starting over from scratch with a completely new platform? Something different from Wherigo. There wouldn’t be any concern of Groundspeak pulling out because it would be a totally separate new gaming platform. I think it’s extremely unlikely Groundspeak will ever agree on some deal. They have been really buttoning down the hatches over the last 3-4 years and I believe at one point they came VERY close to pulling the plug on Wherigo permanently. Even if there was some sort of agreement, the relationship would always be a conflict of interest as they would be trying to steer the platform for their own profit whilst the people who build it would be receiving almost nothing in return. We saw this with project gc— there have been a bunch of features and tools that Groundspeak had them remove from the website because “they didn’t align with the core mission of geocaching.” Location based gaming has huge potential and I believe this could be an opportunity to create an entirely new game. Visual coding platforms like stratch and blocky have become hugely popular since the beginning of the pandemic, but none of them utilize location based elements. I think this could be an opportunity to create something really amazing, maybe even a whole new metaverse of games within games— sort of like “the oasis” in ready player one. I created a massive rpg world in Wherigo over the pandemic and have wanted to publish it but I’m not sure Wherigo really is the right platform. If there was a new platform, I would wholeheartedly support it in any way I could. My meager coding skills would probably not be super helpful on web and app development, but I’m really good at creating games. I could probably help out with creating graphics as well. It’s very possible also that if you guys were to build something new, these new games could be cross listed on geocaching.com with permission from Groundspeak obviously. But that would only be a small part of it— this new platform could be an entirely new scavenger hunt game with finders and hiders in its own world. But maybe more so, there could be a way to create a game that continues on indefinitely or has so much content that it’s almost impossible to ever run out of things to do. Geocaching is so limited by wether or not someone puts out new hides, and in our area the hiders have mostly stopped putting out new hides. What if this new platform was centered around creating content, making it so that the very goal and reward is to make new games. This could include making the builder extremely user friendly but maybe even something like having it so that players can build games “in the field” — say walk around the park and build the game while your out exploring. Or maybe the game somehow uses locations to become part of the game— sort of like Waymarking, but could include other technology like AR and object recognition to create specific objects in the world for players to find and use their phone camera to identify. Well I’m rambling now, but I really do believe that there is a huge interest for some type of new location based platform— players like me who want to go deeper, but feel limited by the confines of geocaching and the age old Wherigo website. Let’s create something new!

This would seem the only option as many have tried and requested for Groundspeak to update the Wherigo platform for many years now with no luck. Even adventure lab, which has an entire team dedicated to the platform has seen very little improvement. With the removal of the benchmarking database, it seems the company has little interest in adding new game elements, rather, their focus is mostly on improving accessibility/bringing on new players. I would say if someone wants to create a supported Wherigo type platform, than the best bet would be to do it outside of geocaching. I have long believed that trying to run a company and make money off of geocaching will always be at odds with the game itself. Geocaching should be a non for profit organization. And so long as the goal is to make money off of it, the quality of the game and the elements that provide interest will continue to dwindle more and more.

Click on the title of the project and then you can download the urwigo files on the next page. https://www.urwigo.cz/?cat=6

There are templates on the urwigo website.

The irony is that because the benchmarking website was never updated, and because they don't count towards geocache finds players don't use them as much. If they did count towards finds and there were an update, then TONS of players would benchmark. The same is true for Wherigo and Waymarking. Perhaps rather than killing off products whenever they become inconvenient, there could be great worth in incorporating these valuable treasures more into geocaching. One gets the feeling that the leadership at HQ has no respect or value for the very people who created the game.

Seriously?! Benchmarks were one of the last things I found interesting in the area since there are rarely any new caches any more. I had ten different benchmark challenges I was working on. What good does it do to get rid of them? I have always found benchmarking interesting, you had to do a little research and sometimes they are hard to find and other times they are really old--this was all part of the fun. I was planning on many happy years of benchmarking but I guess that's gone now. This news is extremely disappointing to me and I know many players who will find it disappointing as well. I find less and less desire to contribute to a game where the rules and setup of the game are constantly being shifted and changed. If the reasoning is because benchmarks aren't global, then that should have been thought through before they were added to the website in the first place. It's not fair to keep changing the game after the fact. Since most players don't even use the website to geocache, does it really make a difference to get rid of them? I have spent many hours benchmarking and I know some players who have spent HUNDREDS of hours benchmarking. It seems all the news we ever hear from HQ is stuff going away or being retired. I wish this was the opposite. But it seems that as geocaching "progresses" it only become less and less enjoyable.

Well it appears to be working now. I'm not sure why. I re-submitted the same information and it went through. Thanks for your help.

No, I was only running one script unrelated to blocking anything. I tried in a different browser as well as on my phone but still just reloads the page. Are you able to submit the form?

I'm trying to make a cache page and when I reach the 4th step - "size & ratings" the page will not proceed after hitting submit. The form just reloads the page. Is anyone else having this issue?

This still doesn't work. I am working on logging some challenge caches and I needed to go back to look at my old finds. I choose "found by me" and then enter found on "7-18-2014" I select all of the filter options: D/T, cache type, cache size. Then when I hit go I get a list of cache hides that are totally out of order. They are not chronological and none of them have the date I was searching for (7-18-2014)! Next I try going into my finds from my profile and I discover I can no longer search for finds earlier than 1/18/2019. So basically there's no way to go into my old finds unless I pull up the old finds page. You guys need to fix this! Its been several weeks and these tools do not work!

I just saw this post, but I'm definitely with you Ranger Fox! I believe lots of people would come on board to support Wherigo, especially if a partnership could be worked out. I wonder if Groundspeak would consider a non for profit organization where the Wherigo Foundation partnered with Groundspeak. The Wherigo Foundation could still raise funds to support itself. The board of trustees could be made of Foundation Members as well as Groundspeak Lackey(s). I have seen a similar example of this where https://scratch.mit.edu/ partnered with MIT to create the Scratch Foundation. For those who aren't familiar, Scratch is an online block coding website - very similar to the Wherigo builders. 32,000 scratch projects are released every day from all across the world. Scratch proves that people can learn coding and that its not beyond the reach of a person without coding knowledge. With the right support Wherigo could be just as popular and also much more accessible to the geocaching community. I have always believed Wherigo is a solid product, it just needs support. If you take any broken product and let it sit stagnant for many years and allow the problems to fester, of course people will want to get rid of it. But Wherigo could be so much more. Adventure Labs are successful because players get lots of quick easy finds and because the platform is supported. If you were to take away the geocache find from an adventure lab and also remove the support then no one would play it. This is what happened with the original Adventures app. If Waymarking, Wherigo, and bench marking all counted towards a geocache find, and those platforms were supported, they would be just as popular as Adventure Labs.

Thank you for sharing this! I didn't realize it was possible to change the default to list view.

This update is pretty frustrating. I can no longer see my own finds or hides in chronological order. I used to be able to go to my profile page and see a list of caches that I've found or hidden in chronological order. Now I get a map which shows all my hides. What if I want to see a list of the caches I hid in the order I hid them? Or what if I want to see the caches I've recently found? I can also no longer see my friends hides or finds in chronological order either. Please add back the functionality to see a list of everyone's hides and finds in the order they were placed and found. Also, please link this list from the profile page.

Yep, I think they are trying to remove functionality to easily see archived caches. The only way you can pull up an archived cache on the map is if you click on your "hides page" from your profile page. This will show you a map of all your caches including archived. You can individually view the cache page by inputting the gc code into the search bar on the geocaching.com homepage. I find this "update" very frustrating and hope they change it back so clicking on the map on an archived page will still show you where it was located.

Okay thank you for all of your feedback! This is really helpful. I will probably delete the scenic at night one as it sounds like it should be taken at night based upon the category description. To find waymarks I have been using the new Waymarkly IOS app and been searching in the map view to find waymarks. Sounds like this process is different from how most players have historically gone about Waymarking. Not sure what I will do yet moving forward with Waymarking as I know alot of the stuff in our area is probably missing or changed and I'm not sure it makes sense either to keep logging missing waymarks. I know people make lots of errors when reporting things missing--this frustrates me alot as a geocache owner. But many of the missing waymarks I have found--the POI was undoubtable missing, like an entire building removed or very large sculpture is gone, or the business is no longer the same. Some of these you can do research to see if the POI has been moved, but I'm not sure if that really counts as a find either as it seems that the waymark is about a specific geographical location. Anyway, thanks again for all of your help. I will keep researching the subject and will post here if I find anything else out.

Hi Max and 99, Thank you for your reply! I really appreciate you looking at these and for your help. I was looking at the Waymarking FAQ and as you mentioned couldn't see any clear delineation of what does or doesn't count as a visit. The tricky part is that such a large number of waymarks are missing in my area. It feels a little hard to move forward with logging more of these and at this point I don't know if I am supposed to delete my visit on all of the waymarks that were missing. The other tricky part is that with almost all the waymarks, no one else ever found them and I am the very first person logging them so there's no reference point from other players either. Photo Goals -- I didn't realize this was a thing. How do you know which is a photo goal activity waymark? This waymark (https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1815) is about sledding but the only person who posted a photo of sledding was the original WMO - BruceS. Is this one a photo goal activity? I guess I goto the category page and read the goal of that particular category. Almost sounds like the old geocaching adventures. I also logged a find on this waymark: https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/wmTJD7_The_Muny_Forest_Park_St_Louis_MO I assumed because the logging requirement just said post a pic it was okay but I see now the whole point is to post a picture at nighttime. So probably delete this visit since I didn't go at night? I wasn't sure if you saw this page already but here's the fallout shelter one: https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WM4EW7 Boat Ramp one (I didn't log it since I didn't have a boat): https://www.Waymarking.com/waymarks/WMY8JE So just to clarify, you pretty much always log it as a visit if the POI is missing and then just suggest edits on the page? Thanks again!

I just started Waymarking a couple weeks ago and have found a lot of waymarks where the point of interest, building, business, or object in question are missing. So far I have logged these as "visits" or "finds" but others have told me now that this is incorrect. What is the official ruling on logging a waymark find or visit? What counts? Just to add some details. I have found a little over 200 waymarks, and so far for about 30-40% of these, the waymarks object or reference point was clearly gone. I imagine that many of the other waymark sites in our area are also missing as most of them have never been visited by anyone and most the pages appear to be updated prior to 2010. Just to clarify, I am using the term "Visit" and "Find" to mean the same the thing since this is what is counted on the waymark website. There are a plethora of additional logging requirements I have seen which are also very confusing. Here are some of the scenarios: A waymark at a sculpture where the sculpture is totally gone and removed from the park. Do I log that the sculpture is gone, post a picture of the empty ground and then log it as found? A waymark at a sculpture, where the sculpture is gone but moved to some other part of the park (I've seen these moved anywhere from a couple hundred feet to a mile away). Log a picture of the empty site and then also log a picture of where the sculpture is at the new location? Also add gps coordinates of the new spot and the log as found? A waymark about a boat ramp where the logging requirements say post a picture of you with your GPS and your boat. This park doesn't have a boat ramp and the closest car access is a mile away. I'm really not sure what to do at this one but will just skip it unless I can get a boat out there since the WMO seems pretty specific about having a boat. A waymark about a car show where the owner says you can only post a visit during the Easter holiday when the specific car show is happening. Will skip this one unless I can make it to the show. A waymark about sledding or fireworks at a location. Can you log a find/visit without doing or seeing the assigned activity at this location? (Btw, I have actually done both requirements but I was not officially Waymarking when I was sledding or watching the fireworks at that spot). The tricky part here, is the waymark page just says post a photo from the location. A waymark at a fallout shelter which is located inside police headquarters. The waymark page only shows the outside of the building but the description question mentions requiring a picture "inside." Honestly it seems like a really bad idea to go inside a police building to take pictures. I took a picture of the fallout shelter sign outside the building, is this qualification enough to count it as found? A waymark at a bar where the bar is totally gone and there is a new business there now. Do I take a picture of the new business and log as found? I really wish there were more specifics about what counts and what doesn't count as a find. I was searching around the Waymarking website but couldn't find a clear answer. A general faq about logging requirements would be really nice.

Thank you so much! Okay I finally got it to work. I see now I did not setup the original example you sent me. But after working through the new example I was able to switch through the images on the same message. Most of my coding knowledge revolves around dragging things in urwigo, so when it comes to actual Lua coding I really struggle with getting the code to work. Anyway, a huge thank you again. I really appreciate your help!!

Sorry one more question, when I call "myMsgBox(zmediaMonsterImage)" is it possible to switch the image without changing the call? I am trying to only use a single message and was hoping to avoid a long string of if/else statements. There are about 30 different images that I need to assign to the one message.

Hi Tungstène, Thank you for your response. I really appreciate your help! I was able to get the code working. This will be a huge help and will really simplify the images in the combat sequence. Thanks again!