Master Shifu
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Posts posted by Master Shifu
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To get the coordinates from that app, do menu->share->e-mail. I don't see why these coordinates would be any less accurate than a standalone GPS. If someone wants to say his GPS is more accurate, you have to consider that maybe he wants to justify spending a lot of money for his GPS. Errors come from atmospheric conditions and obstructions, common to both GPS and phone.If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.
It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.
Now that I'm looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.
The thing with phones is that a lot of them have "Static Navigation" to save battery life. If the user does not understand the consiquenses of this, they can get wildly off coordinates. I also think that phones are just as capable of accuriate reading especialy on a clear day in the open. But the user needs to understand thier individual phone and its quarks.
Edit: another common sourse of error on cellphones is when the user does not understand the triangulaiton vs. GPS. I just fired up my LG Optimus, and I got coordinates. However after digging more, I can see that they are not GPS generated, but GSM triangulation, and the error is ±3000m. If I used that to place a geocache, people would be cheesed off. But again, when a user understands his/her phone, this error can be avoided.
I believe if you disable your "mobile phone data sync" and also turn off your WIFI connection this will insure that your phone get's the coordinates from the GPS only, not from near by cell towers and WIFI locations. Most Android phones will allow you to place a tool bar on your desk top so turning these options off is just one click away.
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I can generally tell when someone hid a cache with a smartphone instead of a real GPSr. The coords usually suck. It would be nice if someone could create an atribute for smartphone-placed caches so I could filter them out.
That's funny... so if the cordanace is a little off, it means it was done with a smart phone. I guess before smart phones were around every cache location was exactly correct.
A cheap smart phone is like a cheap anything... you get what you pay for. If you buy quality, you get quality. Not all smart phones & not all GPS units are the same. To say all smart phones GPS suck would be a false statement. But... it is a convenient thing to blame; I’ll give you that.
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If you use your GPS on android you should check out "GPS Status & Toolbox" in the market. It's free and works great. It displays your GPS and sensor data: position and signal strength of satellites, accuracy, speed, acceleration, and bearing. You can also reset your GPS and download A-GPS date for faster fixes.
It shows where and how many satellites you're currently locked on to.
Now that I’m looking at it more, I could prob use this to see my current location to place a cache. I think I'll use this and "GPS Averaging" to see if they differ at all for the same location. I'm gonna try to use the GPS Status & Toolbox to fix a location (leaving it there for 5mins) then come back the next few days and do the same... see how much it differs day to day.
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Frankly, if you have to ask .... I would say please don't.
Smartphones can technically provide accurate co-ordinates if the person using the device knows what they are doing. 90% of the time you'll end up providing co-ordinates that are 20-50 feet out. Take one reading and post it is a recipe for bad co-ords on any device ... especially a smartphone. Do not use Google Maps satellite view to "verify" the position either.
Think how you feel when a cache is placed and you find it 50 feet off.
Bare minimum please be prepared to average the co-ordinates, and come back multiple days to do so. Environmental effects - rain, leaves, canyons tend to affect smartphones with more intensity than dedicated GPSr units.
Believe me, my phone's GPS is spot on. In a satellite view it can tell me were in my house I am. It can even tell me what corner of the room I’m sitting it. I have friends with smart phones that their GPS doesn't work worth a crap (Galaxy-S for starters), but I’ve been more than shocked at how good mine is.
With that being said, this is the exact reason I asked this question. When I do something, I do it all the way... no half a** for me. I'll be dammed if my cache location isn't going to be as perfect as it can be. I have a lot of respect for this game. Me and my girlfriend are new to the whole thing, but we always bring log books, pens, new containers, tape, and whatever else is needed to fix and upkeep other peoples caches when we go hunting. I’d say about half of the ones we’ve found we left in better condition then we got there.
That’s why I was asking about possible ways and programs that could help me with this. I plan on setting a few random location and going back a few days later and seeing how accurate it is and how I can perfect it before placing my first cache. We may be new, but we are kind of perfectionist when it comes to these things. If after some reassure we find that my phone can’t hack it, then we will be purchasing a GPS unit. From what I’ve seen so far I think my phone can handle it, but only time will tell.
I also hear that you should place the GPS unit on top of the cache for 5-10mins to insure a better lock on the location, is this true? My phone has a program that will give me a graphic readout of all the satellites orbiting space and how many of them your phone is currently locked onto. I will also be using this to insure that I have as many as possible locked on when I place my cache. Some days when it’s cloudy it doesn’t lock onto as many as normal.
I’m also a bit of a phone geek. I have my android phone rooted (hacked) and can flash the software to run different “radios”…. Radios are what control the GPS of the phone. Some work better than others depending on your kind of phone and the location of the country you live in. I have flashed many of the radios that are out there and tested them fully to insure the best one for my phone.
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Perhaps try downloading an app like GPS Averaging - http://www.appbrain.com/app/gps-averaging/org.destil.gpsaveraging
This looks real nice... read the reviews and it seems like it's just what i'm looking for. Downloading it now!
Thanks
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You know, I think I see it now... when using the compass on one of the programs it shows the coordinates on the bottom of page. At first I thought this was the location of the cache I was currently looking for, but it looks like it's changing as I move around. If any Android users know of the best program or way to determine a super accurate location to place caches I would really appreciate it. The GPS on my phone is super dead on most of the time.... which is why I've been using it. If it wasn't I would have bought a real GPS by now.
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Me and my girlfriend have recently started geocaching and are really getting into it. We both have a health condition so at first we weren’t sure how much we would be able to get around and be a part of all the fun. Things have been going pretty good so far and we love the sport. We only have about 16 caches so far but plan on getting a lot more. Due to our health issues we can only get about 5 a day max before we have to call it quits. We use our Android phones to go caching with. We are about to get the full GS membership and start looking at some locations to place our own caches.
My question is how can I find and place the coordinates of a cache with my android phone? I know with traditional GPS units it will tell you the correct location you are at, but I’ not sure about the Android software programs. I use a few different ones… GeoBeagle and GeoHunter.
Can someone give me a little help on how to find the correct coordinates of a cache we place? I’m not asking how to send the info to GS to get it published, but how to make sure we are sending the correct location once we place one.
Sorry for the noobie question,
Thanks for the help
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I'm not 100% clear what "see the correct location" means, unless you are saying that the distance and bearing to the target changes when you switch back and forth between applications. What happens when you switch back to c:geo under such circumstances?
You're most likely describing a platform problem (your phone), not a c:geo problem. We've finally convinced one of the local youngsters here to stop trying to place caches with his.Yeah, I've been noticing some issues with the was c:geo performs. A few times its been about 100 feet off the mark. Had to open up another app to find the cache. Most of the time it runs fine, but when its off, its more than just a little.
If it was an issue with my phone, then why would I be able to open the GS app or geohunter and suddlenly be able to see the correct location?
Within a single application, the calculation of the distance is a function of current vs. target coordinates, and should be a very straightforward thing that should either work or not work on a consistent basis. There are three ways this calculation can malfunction
(a) current coordinates as read or interpreted are incorrect
(
target coordinates as read or interpreted are incorrect© the algorithm used to compute the difference between (a) and (
is variable - the code is changing itself?I haven't noted anyone else mentioning this in this or other c:geo threads. A 100' error, even on an exceptional basis, should have garnered quite a few complaints.
All of the android app used the Google map; they don’t make their own map that the app functions with. All the apps do it put a little icon on the Google map were the cache is located. A few times wile using c:geo the icon of the location was off. Once it was placed about 100-150 feet in to the water of the bay of San Diego (obviously this is incorrect), so I opened geohunter and it had the same cache located on the edge on the rocks by the water.... I then found the cache. Another time c:geo had the icon of the cache located in the middle of someone’s house; this also can't be so I fired up geobeagle. geobeagle had the same cache located about 100 feet south in a back ally; I then found the cache.
Not sure why this is,. I’ve never had c:geo show a cache location in the incorrect place before. Most of the time it's always right. I'm not saying the app doesn't work anymore, I’m just saying I noticed some resent weird issues with it. I've used it sense and it worked just fine.
If the issue was with my GPS or phone (which all app used the same map...Google map) then all apps would of have the cache located in the incorrect place.
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You're most likely describing a platform problem (your phone), not a c:geo problem. We've finally convinced one of the local youngsters here to stop trying to place caches with his.Yeah, I've been noticing some issues with the was c:geo performs. A few times its been about 100 feet off the mark. Had to open up another app to find the cache. Most of the time it runs fine, but when its off, its more than just a little.
If it was an issue with my phone, then why would I be able to open the GS app or geohunter and suddlenly be able to see the correct location?
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Yeah, I've been noticing some issues with the was c:geo performs. A few times its been about 100 feet off the mark. Had to open up another app to find the cache. Most of the time it runs fine, but when its off, its more than just a little.
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Feature requests and complaints about Groundspeak's app should go to http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75279-geocaching-for-android
Feature requests and complaints about c:geo should go to the developer of c:geo...who just announced he's leaving the biz.
This thread has turned into a litany of grumbling that's unlikely to be read by anyone that can address the issues and is dangerously close to being closed.
I don’t know why it would be closed; it is located in the correct place on the forum that's been provided for members... "GPS & Technology". People are discussing what they like and dislike about a form of GPS Technology. Just because you don’t like the comments doesn't mean it should be closed. Would you close a thread in the same section that was about how amazing the GS Android App is? Cause if you would, then by all means close this one to stay consistent. But don’t close it just because you don’t like the comments.
It's not like anyone is using foul language or posting inappropriate pictures. People might be misinformed and upset about issues, but I think many people are learning about some of GS’s rules and regulations and also realizing the advantages of purchasing a premium membership. Like I said before, I overreacted about the c:geo news just like many people in this forum. But in the process of reading this whole thread I have learned a lot about premium membership, pocket queries, and other member’s feelings about how c:geo is affecting the game and GS as a whole.
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Makes me wonder though, if someone is picking up support, can the app be transferred to them in the Google Android marketplace - or will they be starting over with the app ranking.People aren't picking it because of it's live maps and page scraping ability, or because their cheap and trying to get something for free.... they pick it because their curious about geocaching and it's the first thing in their face.If the first thing that showed up was a 10 dollar app, many people prob wouldn't even check the game out.
Good point there. People who were introduced to the game through their smartphone because of the app, and find out about the gc.com after that, would react poorly if they feel that the app is getting shut down because of gc.com.
Also reminds me that Groundspeak better make nice with either the smartphone new user crowd, or get back in bed with Garmin! They do need to provide a method for Android and Windows Phone (and while I'm at it Blackberry, WebOS) users to "try out" the service without resorting to a pen and paper.
I've wondered that myself.. maybe even the name of the app will have to change (something like b:geo so people know it's the same thing).
Also, how are the apps for the windows and blacknerry users? I'm strickly android, but I do have firends that run other OS's.
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As many have also stated, when people first hear about geocaching and want to try it out they go to the android market place and do a search for "geocaching". c:geo is the first app that shows up, and it has the best reviews. So naturally everyone is going to pick that app.
People aren't picking it because of it's live maps and page scraping ability, or because their cheap and trying to get something for free.... they pick it because their curious about geocaching and it's the first thing in their face.
If the first thing that showed up was a 10 dollar app, many people prob wouldn't even check the game out. I fully understand peoples beef with the program, but you can't deny the fact that it's brought people to the game and in return money down the line for GS.
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Another issue that I’m sure not everyone is aware of is the fact the LOC cache files aren't as easy to get "on the go" when someone attempts to use one of the geocaching apps that doesn’t violate the TOS.
Programs like geobeagle and geohunter work by linking you to the GS website page were you can look up caches by your current location, just like you can on a normal desktop computer. You can select “check all” and it will download a DOC file with about 15-20 caches. But, the way the android web searcher(s) work and download files…. There’s an issue. The DOC files that are downloaded with an android will NOT work when synching with these programs. You have to download the DOC file from a computer, then mount your phone, then transfer the DOC file to you SDcard.
So, when using a non page scraping program you have to only pic ONE cache at a time and have it push it to your Google map. It’s defiantly a hassle to do this over and over for each cache. This is another reason people love c:geo.
And you've just illustrated a good reason to get a Premium Membership. I create and download PQs from my smartphone "on the fly" all the time, and typically use Geosphere instead of the official app. That doesn't scrape, or violate the TOS. I mentioned above, I don't like the idea that a basic member gets a premium feature via web scraping.
I think most people that use c:geo and fall in love with the sport will eventually get a premium membership. But people aren't going to pay 30 bucks for something they have never tried out to even see if they like it. I'm new to this whole thing and will be getting a membership soon, but needed to try it out first to see if this something I liked enough to stick with. c:geo brought me to geocaching and it has done the same for many others. I'm willing to bet the program has added quite a lot of money to GS pocket since it was released. It's a popular and easy to use program that brings in new players and eventually revenue from those players.
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Another issue that I’m sure not everyone is aware of is the fact the LOC cache files aren't as easy to get "on the go" when someone attempts to use one of the geocaching apps that doesn’t violate the TOS.
Programs like geobeagle and geohunter work by linking you to the GS website page were you can look up caches by your current location, just like you can on a normal desktop computer. You can select “check all” and it will download a DOC file with about 15-20 caches. But, the way the android web searcher(s) work and download files…. There’s an issue. The DOC files that are downloaded with an android will NOT work when synching with these programs. You have to download the DOC file from a computer, then mount your phone, then transfer the DOC file to you SDcard.
So, when using a non page scraping program you have to only pic ONE cache at a time and have it push it to your Google map. It’s defiantly a hassle to do this over and over for each cache. This is another reason people love c:geo.
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how hard would it be to disable/remove the 'live' feature for now and simply use a static display. That would allow users to continue using a 'legal and moral' version until such time as the API and the programmers figure out how to manage a 'legal' method to live map again.
I have a feeling that as soon as the "live map" function doesn't work anymore people will quite using c:geo... that's the only reason people use it. That and you can log your cache find on the site as soon as you put it back. If they took it away, and then added it back people would eventually come back to it if the official GS app didn't get their "live map" function working first. But I dont see people using it anymore if the live map stops working, even for a week.
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Hello everyone,
Just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Bill. I am just looking into Geocaching and would like to possibly meet up with other people that like to go out to the desert or where ever. I just purchased a Garmin Oregon 450t. Trying to learn about it. Mainly bought it to use for my clubs Adopt A Trail to mark locations of items on the trail, but would like to use it for geocaching also.
Is there a website for local geocachers to meet up at? Does anyone like to go to the desert and do a little offroading and look for geocache at the same time?
Hope to meet people and learn and do more of this great event.
Thank you,
Bill
Welcome Bil,
You found the right page and we are having a event tonight at Giovannis in Kearny mesa scroll down from your post for more info. We have a event thread so check on that and we do a geocampout in ocitillo wells in nov and that's alot of fun.
John AKA TEAM FATMAN:anibad:
Hey guys... me and my girl are new to geocaching and also live in San Diego. Looks like we missed the event mentioned in this post. Hey fatman, is the event thread your talkign about the GS event page with all event's listed? or is there a special San Diego page i'm missing Thanks for the info, didn't mean to hi-jack Bills question\post.
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I've been noticing some issues with c:geo in the past few days.... not sure if anyone else is noticing the same thing. I went out geocaching on Saturday using c:geo with no issues. Found 2 caches without issue. The map showed exactly were the cache was located. But, when I went out Sunday I started to notice something weird. The map was a little bit off. One cache on the c:geo map was located about 30 feet into the water of the bay of san diego..... this can't be right I tought. So I opened another android app, geo hunter I belive it was. Now, geo hunter had the correct location listed and we found the cache. Then another time the same day c:geo's map had the cache located inside of someones house.... this can't be right I thought. So, once again I opened another program and looked at the same cache which was then listed about 80 feet south in the correct location. At that point we ended up finding the cache. 2 out of the 4 cache's we looked at that day c:geo's map had the wrong location. Not sure if this has something to do with the update GS did to their site and c:geos creator no longer updating it to coinside with the update. Thought it was kind of strange. Until now, this is the first time I've had any issues with c:geos acuracy.
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The good news is that some kind developers have stepped up and will continue development of C:Geo.
Had a bad day at work today.... this is just the news I needed to cheer me up! Me and my girl are going caching this weekend. Good times
Live Maps here we come!
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c:geo violates the TOS of the site and use of it may get you banned.
It also is no longer being supported by its developer- and with the site update today it probably broke.
I don't use an Android so, you'll need to get suggestions from other people.
Edit for typo.
I dout the use of it would get you banned. Groundspeak would talk with google and have it removed from the market place before they would go as far as ban people. Many people that use the app don't even know its in violation of anything. I didn't even know until I started reading the many c:geo posts that have been popping up on these forums.
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I belive people are correct in the fact that if it's using stored data that it will not be using your data plan... but just to make sure you can go into your phone and "disable your mobile data" wile you are caching. This will make sure that your phone is only using your GPS and not roaming.
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Don’t everyone shake their cane at me at once, lol.
Well... I'm glad my feeling is wrong and everyone is fine with and fully embracing any type of GPS device and caching method, or at least tolerant of them.
And no, I will not be one of the people that stops caching if c:geo goes down. I hope apps will always exist (no matter who makes then) because the GPS on my phone is super dead on! I do hope live maps will always be available though because it sure is fun just opening up a map and seeing what’s all around you… I do it all the time even when I’m not caching because I like so see areas I want to go back to someday with lots of stuff to find. I’m still new to the game and have a health condition so going on long hunts and doing it as much as I want isn’t possible most of the time.
I’ve used a dedicated hand held GPS unit before and it wasn’t near as accurate as my phone. Prob just a bad GPS unit I guess.
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I overreacted like many people in this post once hearing the new about c:geo. I’m new to the game and me and my girl are having a grate time going out and finding caches. We use c:geo because it works the way we want it to. I love the live maps and the ability to log a find right after putting it back.
I just hope c:geo will continue to update their app to run as it does now or better. I would also like to see GS make their app just as good if not better than c:geo’s. Variety is the spice of life. Weather it’s variety in what GPS unite you choose to use or what app you choose to use. We should all be able to hunt the way we want.
I get the feeling the people using traditional GPS units don’t like the new players emerging that like to use their smart phones to go caching…. Kind of like the old man on his porch shaking his cane at the youngsters skateboarding down the sidewalk. We should all embrace technology, no matter who’s using it or what it is. It can only bring advances in our world. After all, if it wasn’t for technology geocaching wouldn’t even exist to begin with.
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so far my c:geo is still working fully... not sure what the 11am update today was or did (maybe I got the date or timezone wrong).
target coordinates as read or interpreted are incorrect
Placing a Cache with Android
in GPS technology and devices
Posted
Yea, that most certainly a bad example of an android phone GPS specs. I just took a random image off of Google to show people the program. I’ve never seen mine anywhere near that many errors. It’s almost like the person posting the picture just did a screen shot of their phone wile they were in their house next to their computer. That’s the only way I can get that kind of errors… when I'm inside of an office building.
I’ll download a screen capture program for my phone and post a picture of my GPS specs so people can see the difference between a good phone with GPS and a bad phone (or bad location example).